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-den/-dan-Ablative suffix
(24 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3
1.       Mavili
236 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 01:10 am

"Bu durum karşısında Hoca bir şey söylemeden onları içeri alır ve sofraya oturtur."

Source; I think from Princeton University. (I think its a children´s story) I have been trying to practice translating, though maybe that interactive site has Turkish thats a bit advanced for me yet. But I thought I would try anyway! I mention my sources so you know I dıdn´t make the sentences.Smile

Most of it has been ok, enough to get the gist of the sentences from the words and suffixes but probably not accurate translation. I came across that sentence.

I was able to understand most of the sentence but it made me wonder about "söylemeden" When you have the -den/-dan suffix after a verb, instead of a noun, how does that work? Or is there something I am missing? Is it still "didn´t tell"?

 

Thanks in advance and I may post more to the thread if I have more questions about this exercise. {#emotions_dlg.angel}

 

2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 06:05 am

 

Quoting Mavili

"Bu durum karşısında Hoca bir şey söylemeden onları içeri alır ve sofraya oturtur."

Source; I think from Princeton University. (I think its a children´s story) I have been trying to practice translating, though maybe that interactive site has Turkish thats a bit advanced for me yet. But I thought I would try anyway! I mention my sources so you know I dıdn´t make the sentences.Smile

Most of it has been ok, enough to get the gist of the sentences from the words and suffixes but probably not accurate translation. I came across that sentence.

I was able to understand most of the sentence but it made me wonder about "söylemeden" When you have the -den/-dan suffix after a verb, instead of a noun, how does that work? Or is there something I am missing? Is it still "didn´t tell"?

 

Thanks in advance and I may post more to the thread if I have more questions about this exercise. {#emotions_dlg.angel}

 

-meden means without. You have to add it to the root of the verb. It is not about -den, -dan. -meden is a different suffix. It makes verbs adverbs.

 



Edited (9/24/2011) by gokuyum
Edited (9/24/2011) by gokuyum

Hindistan and sashk liked this message
3.       Hindistan
246 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:36 pm

So, is "gel-meden önce" belongs to this structure???

4.       deli
5904 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:45 pm

I think so

 

that means before coming

5.       Hindistan
246 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:49 pm

 

Quoting deli

I think so

 

that means before coming

 

But if we go by logic, i don´t think they are same...gok explained that it gives a meaning i.e without..and in this case there is no without...so may be are different forms...

6.       si++
3785 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:51 pm

 

Quoting Hindistan

So, is "gel-meden önce" belongs to this structure???

 

It should be broken up as

gelme-den önce = before coming

 

not to be confused with -meden:

V+ -meden = without V+ing

7.       deli
5904 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:55 pm

Im not sure what you mean ,but yes they are different

one means without= meden (ing)

the other

meden önce= before (ing)

and

medikten sonra= after (ing)

 

I think

8.       Hindistan
246 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 05:56 pm

Thanks si... {#emotions_dlg.get_you}

9.       Mavili
236 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 09:10 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

-meden means without. You have to add it to the root of the verb. It is not about -den, -dan. -meden is a different suffix. It makes verbs adverbs.

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum, Deli and Si+{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} so used in my example,

"birşey söylemeden" = "something without telling"

If this is part of adverbial clauses, do thy follow vowel harmony or no? Or is there -madan for a, ı, o, u ?

örn

sormeden= without asking

paylaşmeden=without sharing

10.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 09:26 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum, Deli and Si+{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} so used in my example,

"birşey söylemeden" = "something without telling"

If this is part of adverbial clauses, do thy follow vowel harmony or no? Or is there -madan for a, ı, o, u ?

örn

sormeden= without asking

paylaşmeden=without sharing

 

 sormadan

paylaşmadan

 

they follow vowel harmony.

sarılmadan ---> ı ---> a       [ without hugging]

korumadan ---> u ---> a     [ without protecting]

koşmadan -----> o ---> a    [ without running ]

 

 



Edited (9/24/2011) by tunci

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