"Bu durum karşısında Hoca bir şey söylemeden onları içeri alır ve sofraya oturtur."

Source; I think from Princeton University. (I think its a children´s story) I have been trying to practice translating, though maybe that interactive site has Turkish thats a bit advanced for me yet. But I thought I would try anyway! I mention my sources so you know I dıdn´t make the sentences.

Most of it has been ok, enough to get the gist of the sentences from the words and suffixes but probably not accurate translation. I came across that sentence.

I was able to understand most of the sentence but it made me wonder about "söylemeden" When you have the -den/-dan suffix after a verb, instead of a noun, how does that work? Or is there something I am missing? Is it still "didn´t tell"?

Thanks in advance and I may post more to the thread if I have more questions about this exercise. 

-meden means without. You have to add it to the root of the verb. It is not about -den, -dan. -meden is a different suffix. It makes verbs adverbs.

So, is "gel-meden önce" belongs to this structure???

I think so

that means before coming

But if we go by logic, i don´t think they are same...gok explained that it gives a meaning i.e without..and in this case there is no without...so may be are different forms...

It should be broken up as

gelme-den önce = before coming

not to be confused with -meden:

V+ -meden = without V+ing

Im not sure what you mean ,but yes they are different

one means without= meden (ing)

the other

meden önce= before (ing)

and

medikten sonra= after (ing)

I think

Thanks si... 

Thank you Gokuyum, Deli and Si+ so used in my example,

"birşey söylemeden" = "something without telling"

If this is part of adverbial clauses, do thy follow vowel harmony or no? Or is there -madan for a, ı, o, u ?

örn

sormeden= without asking

paylaşmeden=without sharing

 sormadan

paylaşmadan

they follow vowel harmony.

sarılmadan ---> ı ---> a       [ without hugging]

korumadan ---> u ---> a     [ without protecting]

koşmadan -----> o ---> a    [ without running ]

thanks Tunci. I was not sure because the Adverbial clause lesson on this site does not mention that they follow VH. But I know they do now.

Rica ederim Mavili.. Well, there is only two option in this case ;

meden ---> e, i ,ü , ö ----> e

madan ----> a, ı, u, o ----> a

so we better call it "special harmony "  in it

bir şey söylemeden lets analise this

bir is adjective

şey is noun

bir şey is adjective phrase

söyle(mek) to say

meden is without

söylemeden is adverb

This adverb also has an indefinite object. It is "bir şey".

So "bir şey söylemeden" means "without saying anything".

Thank you Gokuyum! Very detailed explanation, which I usually need. 

Can I ask about another part in this exercise? How about when there is an adjective but appears to be given an aorist tense? -er/-ar

In the little story its used this way;

"Az sonra onlara birer tabak sıcak su ikram eder."

Edit; And I had been thinking that I could start figuring out how to translate in case one day I want to read a storybook thats in Turkish. 

The word ´birer´ has nothing to do with aorist tense.

birer means ´one at a time, one each

birer birer means ´one by one´

ikişer means ´two each, two apiece´

ikişer ikişer means ´two by two, in pairs´

thanks Henry, Ok I will have to remember that. Guess I should have figured that tense isn´t added to "bir"  That and make sure to check words that Im not sure of to see if they are words with a suffix or already true as they are.

"İhtiyar oyuncakçının hayatta üzüldüğü tek şey bir çocuğunun olmamasıymış."

´The only thing (tek şey) in the old toy maker´s life (ihtiyar oyuncakçının hayatta) that made him sad (üzüldüğü) was that he didn´t have a child (bir çocuğunun olmamasıymış).´

The -dik- participle doesn´t have a tense of its own. The tense is written in the predicate verb, in this case ol|ma|ma|sı|ymış = verb stem + negation + infinitive marker + possessive suffix sg 3rd + inferential tense marker (imiş). The inferential (which is also called the -miş-past) is often used in stories instead of -di-past. It´s a past anyway. So, the answer to your question is that üzüldüğü, adapting itself to the tense of the predicate verb also  refers to the past.

Thank you Abla for the complete explanation. I couldn´t tell how to break down -olmamasıymış. But I see now how but I never would have figured it to be "he didn´t have" because of the combination of Olmak and the 3rd person possesive -si, unless someone told me. I hope I can get more exposure to that combination to be more familiar with it. 

And I know that -miş is used for stories and fairy tales but I hope soon I can do other kinds of so ı can practice with -di simple past also.

I found a nice site which you might like, Mavili: http://www.herkesemasal.com.      

omgosh! I am sorry I missed that you shared this Abla. I just saw this reply right now but when I followed the link, the page appears to be gone now. All I get is the webserver default page. I am sure I missed something good you were trying to share too. I´ve just been getting settled into a new design class the last couple of weeks.

I have still been practicing writing  though, Ive not given up! I´ve just been trying some sentences in certain past tenses. I am sure there are many corrections needed because I usually don´t get my sentences corrected.

continuous past

They were bringing gifts to the new mother.

-Yeni anneyi için hadiyeler getiriyordular.

We were riding our bikes this morning.

-Sabahleyin bisikletimiz biniyorduk.

She was jumping up and down with anticipation for the new toy.

-yeni oyuncağı için tahmın edekle, yukarıp aşağı zıplayıyor.

Future Past

We were going to watch the sunset.

-Güneşin batışı izleyecektik.

I was going to share the news with you, but forgot.

-Seninle bu haberleri paylaşacaktık, ama unutum.

They were going to demonstrate the tiger´s power.

-Kaplanın güçlüsü gösterecektiler.

Neccessitative Past

We had to push the car home.

-Arabayı eve itmelidik.

He had to visit the doctor yesterday.

-Dün doktoru ziyaretmelidi.

They had to sign the contract for the lawyers.

-Avukatlar için pliçeyi imzamalıdılar.

Interrogative Definite past

Did she order a drink at the cafe?

-Bir içki lokantada ismarladı mı?

Did we have to choose today to go run?

-Bugün koşar gitmek seçmeli miyiz?

Did Ayşe use this  bike to go?

-Ayşe bu motosikleti gitmek kullandı mı?

Yes, Mavili, herkesemasal.com works. Maybe it was closed temporarily. It is a fairytale site. There is often very interesting language in these stories. The most amusing thing is to read a story which you already know and then experience it in Turkish.

I collected some quotes from classical fairytales for you:

        

Quote: www.herkesemasal.com

1. “Seni daha iyi yiyebilmek için,” demiş kurt. (Kırmızı Başlıklı Kız)

2. Geriye kala kala camdan ayakkabıların bir teki kalmış. (Külkedisi)

3. Açıl susam açıl!! (Kırk Haramiler)

4. Ansınız bir çocuk bağırmış: “A!....A!... Kral elbiselerini hiç giymemiş!” (Kralın Elbisesi)

5.“Yok, olmaz. Yeterince şişman değil!” diye bağırıyormuş cadı. (Hansel ve Gretel)

6. Kral’ın Faytonu Çizmeli Kedi’nin geçtiği yerlerden geçerken Kral her rastgeldiği insana, “Bu tarlalar kime ait?” diye soruyormuş. (Çizmeli kedi)

7. Zavallı kız, kibriti bir elinden öbür eline geçirerek, parmaklarını ısıttı. (Kibritçi kız)

8. Sağa döndüm, sola döndüm, bir türlü uyuyamadım. (Gerçek Prenses)

Thank you Abla! The link works now and I was able to see. Looks like thats going to be a great site for me to practice with. I know its children´s stuff but we all start out learning our native language as children of course so why not utilize it as a supplement for learning a 2nd language right? Although I don´t feel confident about my Türkish enough for language that is too colorful lıke play on words, poems etc. But one day.

And thank you Si +. its good to see I was getting at least some things correct. And understand my mistakes except for not quite getting how the question particle -Mi? can come after what you want its asking about. But I have trouble with telling when it should be anywhere else except the end of the question.

Also thanks for the new thing for the neccessitative past. -zorunda kaldı seems to be another thing left out of the grammar books, at least out of the grammar dictionary I have. Ok getting back on the proverbial horse.