Gaddafi dies of wounds, NTC official says

20 October 2011, Thursday / REUTERS, SIRTE, LIBYA

Muammar Gaddafi

 NTC askeri görevlisinin söylediğine göre eski Libya Lideri Muammar Gaddafi Perşembe günü memleketi Sirte´ye yakın bir yerde yaralandıktan sonra öldü.

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unfortunately like a bad sequel movie there will be a Gaddafi ll  at some point in time   in some country.

Tears in my eyes. Glad, this last dictator hunt was accomplished flawlessly. No one accuses the West despite its obvious role both in Libya and the rest of the Arab world. They did not drop their bombs, they did not stir any troubles, they did not arm any parties within the country and now they have every right to accuse the so-called freedom fighters of cruelty.

That´s good, anyway, no one is asking questions to the government in the West. When you are free and democratic by nature, why would you need other regimes or different points of view? Just bomb the bastards´ land if they are misbehaving...

Who exactly stops you from asking questions from western governments? Europe with all its faults and shortcomings is the success story of the century what comes to human rights and freedom of word. It´s simple but it´s easy to forget. There are some alarming processes these days in the mental climate but they still didn´t change this fact.

Your precious western goverments really suck when it comes to racism and emperialism.

Well, now that I am not sitting on oil reserves or energy resources, it seems I have every right to point my finger at the profoundly hypocratic aspects of the hot air balloon called European democracy.

In fact, the West in its general outlook resembles a mosquito, it got fat by sucking others´ blood. We might associate its annoying buzz with the lessons of democracy it is trying to circulate among the half-wit majority of an apolitical world.

Shameless by birth, it never misses a chance to manipulate or to fabricate. The West is the scorch of the world and it is proving this point by perpetually shedding blood.

I can´t deny there was a black period in time and many of the problems in today´s world are result of past mistakes. Maybe I see it from a different angle. I see where we were and where we are now. I see it as a succesfull process of learning. What I wanted to say is that yes, European governments can take criticism and there are many people in leading positions who know their history  -  even the worst of it  -  very well.

Yes you can criticise them about small matters. But you can´t criticise the system which they are founded on. If you do you will be arrested like the American protestors who protest Wall Street.

As we are talking, certain people are looking for excuses to settle the account with Ahmedinejad.

When this is done, a new villain will have to be created.

You know, gokuyum, most people are not capable of criticizing the system their communities are based on. Actually very few are. The majority eats the cake just as it is served to them. But still I can´t imagine what kind of protest I should make to be arrested in my own country... If my protest would base on facts it would be welcomed.

I can´t see your last message, vineyards. A pity.  -  I mean message number 8. Maybe your finger slipped.

I have this weird problem. Sometimes, my message disappears after I post it.

In that message I was trying to present the East as the lesser evil not hugely responsible for global acts of malice and how in fact it is being used by the powers-that-be who are doing their best to satanize it.

May Allah help Libyan people if those who savagely lynched a man and who played drums and joyfully danced on the streets over the man´s death and who waited for hours in a long line to take a photo of the man´s corpse as a memory and who shouted "allahu akbar" as if killing him had something to do with islam religion are going to rule the country..

Khadafi was the only leader of the oil producing countries whose people benefited from the wealth of his country. It was said that from health to tertiary education abroad, virtually all social services were free of charge in Libya. Each family had its home or apartment and owned one to three vehicles. It had also a direct bonus from oil revenue..

There had to be another way to be rid of Khadafi and live in a democratic country..  

Maybe if you try harder you can find a way to be arrested. Because such a thing is highly possible when you criticise the system.

Now i want to say a few things about Kaddafi.

If you rule a country with fear ;no matter how much you give your people they will rebel. Because people starts getting paranoid in time. And that violence (which I also condemn) against Kaddafi is a result of social madness which Kaddafi caused in 40 years. After dictatorships in Arabic world, it seems theocratic governments will be voted. And violence will keep going on. Because the best way to justify violence is to use religion. And this time if they rise up again they will be blamed as infidels. Don´t think I blame Islam religion I blame extremist and opportunist approaches to Islam.

I can imagine only one thing that might lead into trouble in some European countries. It´s holocaust. But not even that in my small county. At its worst they would say I am mad. But there are laws about holocaust in some European countries, I don´t remember where exactly. Interestingly denying holocaust might give you prison but you can deny the massacre that Belgium committed in Kongo as you like.

I like what gokuyum says about Gaddafi. The "Brotherly Leader" as they always called him on Libyan TV very much chose his own destiny. He wanted to die in Libya and take with him as much people as he could. Years of tyranny change people, war changes people and I don´t fint it very strange if there were some stupidities shown at the time of his death.

When I look at what happened in Libya and the worse that is still going on in Syria I can not but respect the way Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak gave up and left when the street asked him to. He was certainly a killer and a thief, one of the worst, and he ruled Egypt in a brutal way which actually made everyone afraid of his neighbour. But he left without bloodshed. If I was asked he should be forgiven his crimes because of this act only if not for anything else. This overpopulated country is a mess anyway, it certainly doesn´t need any more violence. I don´t like the thought of the old man being given death sentence.

I wasnt expecting myself I would ever feel sorry for Gaddafi, but I did after I saw him being lynched barbaricly by rebels...

Seeing that scene made me feel questioning the so called "Arap Spring".. Ok. he was a bloody dictator. I wanted him to suffer but not this way..I mean he could have suffered in prison or after he was judged in the court. And they could have judged him by Islamic laws in the court and then punished him...

I started believing that "Arap Spring" is a part of plan that is gonna lead Arap world into more caos and disunity.. Why is that reminded me of  Lawrence of Arabia and his fellow traitors [some arab tribes] when I saw those rebels lyncing Gaddafi...I know thats not exactly the same things to compare but they have a common point which is " becoming a new captivity under Western imperialists " in other words " captivity of Oil "

Old captivity finished but new captivity is about to start....

I would feel sorry even for anyone else who was killed that way..and I don´t find it normal or acceptable what those beasts did to a captured man..and who finds it acceptable is part of that violence..if those bunch of uncontrollabled beasts is the real face the powers that are going to built a new Libya, I should say Libyan people will soon miss their crazy dictator..there is this old saying, "nations are ruled as they deserve"..  

What you and some others seem to forget vineyards was that it was The Arab League who went to the United Nations and asked for intervention in Libya to protect the people. Now The Arab League are turning their attention to Syria. I myself am worried about what will happen in Libya with all the different factions. 

I must say seeing the way he was treated at the end was revolting, and very disgusting. What honor is there in treating a helpless captured man in such a disgusting manner?  Then why put his body on display and have a parade of people viewing it? Not well done, not well done at all. It´s goulish and ghastly. 

It´s sad when I remember when he first came to the world scene. He was young and handsome and seemed to have good ideas. I guess having great wealth and being in power so long corrupted him. 

He certainly was one of the most colorful world leaders with his costumes, tents, female body guards.....and affection for Condi Rice? I can´t help but wish him to rest in peace and wish Allah have mercy on his soul. 

I am reminded of how he was seen in the past by this article

"In a region marked by the ascendance of sultans, emirs and colonels who had betrayed the hopes of their people for emancipation by signing up to a peace dictated by the U.S. and Israel, Gaddafi provided a breath of fresh air by taking a stand not only for the beleaguered Palestinians but for international solidarity with national liberation movements. This won him the comradeship of fellow survivors Fidel Castro of Cuba and Nelson Mandela of South Africa."

What happened to him to become such a tyrant?

Power corrupts.

I guess part of the answer is sitting next to Gaddafi in alameda´s picture. Gaddafi had a dream to be the greatest Arab leader after Gamal Abdel Naser. Maybe he thought he was the Chosen One. As the Promise never came true it left an endless hunger in him. After that he wanted to be the Leader of Africa, the Leader of Anti Western Front, the Great Imam, the Croesus of Modern Age. This and That.

Please, give a thought to those also who lie unrecognized in Tripoli mass graves. Gaddafi had his share and more.

In my humble opinion, there is indeed a need for a strong anti-Western front. It would be the best if such a front had comparable military and economic might. Instead what we have today is a bunch of weak countries whose leaders are presented as lunies by the mass media.

I don´t want to live in a world where the big brother decides whom to terminate. Just tell me for how many deaths (both inside and outside the country) the last 10 US leaders can be held accountable. Every leader has skeletons in their back yards. It is just that we seem to disregard the sins of a leader if he is serving us.

Those living in more democatic countries are overlooking something that in such countries as it is mentioned here which are with shallow-rooted democracy or with no tradition of democracy at all, the only thing that can be built is a new dictatorship if super powers put their blood-stained finger (to reach the energy sourcess of the country) in the natural process of a nation finding its own way to democracy.  

A bullet to the temple, one to the chest and one to the abdomen, this after hearing people shout "keep him alive" and after he is dead you hear shouts of "Allah is great"!  Is this justice?  Did they have to lower themsleves down to his level of cruelty?  The liberators of Libiya who captured Gaddafi turned into a lynch mob and became themselves judge, jury and executionner, the same as Gaddafie did to the ones he had executed while in power.

Now the official version is that he was killed in cross-fire during the capture of Sirt, this from the leaders of transitional government.

The only reason we can say to why Gaddafi was executed was to be able to say that Libiya was truelly liberated from the clutches of Gaddafi.  As long as he was alive they would not have been truelly liberated.

Vineyards, I just love you!  Never thought I would say this to you. I used to hate you sometimes in the past.

I love you Scalpel!!!

Yes, thats also true, but vineyards mentioned it in his post.

I agree, when Saddam Husein was killed the Iraqis were very happy, and now they are missing their "Dictator".

Here comes the question were Qadafi & Saddam Dictators???..

what they did to him and his body is inhumane. why do arabs behave this barbaric? why do they mutulate victims and even dead bodies?

why are they revenge thirsty and anger driven? havent they heard about forgiveness and mercy?

Chauchesku and his wife were not killed by Arabs.  Neither was Mussolini and his mistress. 

I could go on and on.  What happenned to Gaddafi is not specific to Arabs like you put it but is a result of the frenzy generated by the capture of figure of power during a revolution.  The 20th century is plagued with actions like this.

The level of hypocracy the West handled this and the way it now wants to walk away with it is simply repulsive. Anyone curious enough to take a look into the major incidents of the near past will find similarities.

There is a period of disinformation serving to satanize the regime of the targeted country. The media immediately and unconditionally begins doing their share to complete the bad image by fabricating and distorting truth. Then statements follow one another. Mere assumptions are presented as facts. Apparently all of this is done for the sake of democracy and by democratic regimes.

Saddam sought to build an Arab unity and posed threat to the West.

Kaddafi sought to build an African unity and this was a threat to the interests of the West too. In fact, it can be safely said that he turned a tribal community into a nation investing heavily in agriculture, housing and infrastructure increasing the welfare in his country several folds since he has taken over. They say he had mental problems and probably made a few mistakes and committed a number sins in his long reign. He was a strong man though, he could convert the potential of his nation into a sort of influence unseen in his geography. For example, many of you might not know the names of Moroccon or Tunisian presidents but Kaddafi has always enjoyed a celebrity status among the world leaders.

well, romania is a different story so is mussolini (that happent during the wwII).

I wish you could go on.

i mean i keep witnessing this barbarity. they tear the body and take out inside organs with naked hands and demonstrate in fromt of cameras.

it doesnt have to be tyrants, arabs do this to any kind of enemy. I am saying any enemy deserves a humane death. enjoying the body mutilation is worse than animalistic. only sick people do this.

 I oppose your generalization about Arabs. You can´t generalize all Arab race because of what bunch of brain washed rebels done to Gaddafi. It´s like throwing the whole bag of apples into the bin because of few rotten ones. Please do not generalize the nations,cus some people might see it as racist approach.

saddam, gadafi and now next ahmenidjan?

 -Whole Germans are murderers because they burnt jews alive in hot-ovens ?

 -Whole British nation is rioters and thives because they rioted the shops in London ?

 - All Americans are racist killers because they killed American indians ?

 - All Amsterdam people are drug addicted because its free there ?

 - All Dutch people are muslim haters because their soldiers let Serbians massacared Bosnians in Serebrenitsa ?

   Dont say they are past events..Its easy to generalize, I am asking you how many Arabs do you actually know ? Obviously none.

please lemon answer tunci´s question.

Every revolution or coup d´état where the political leader did not flee to another country have been treated in the same way that Gaddafi has been treated.

Now whith what you said about Arabs, firstly they are Libyans, to make one thing clear, some were part of the interim government, others militia, others normal civilians, none of which had someone in controle of the situation.

Please take your blinders off to think that this is only occuring at the hands of Arabs.

Oh, and it just goes to show that past actions are bound to be repeated.

Why is it diffrent?

The Romanian people had enough of a leader who was totally unaware of how they were living in poverty while he lived in luxury?

The Italians had enought of Mussilini´s tyranic rule.

Why are those overthrow diffrent?

Oh yeah, if we go by what you said it is because the people were not Arabs there for it did not happen?  They did not get lynched and their bodies not paraded in front of the masses for everyone to see.

It may have occured it the past but it occured.

The next one is Asad of Syria..and then the award will go to Ahmadinejat of Iran...but Iran is too big bite to swallow.."super powers" need Turkey´s military help both for Syria and Iran..it is a chess game between the Arab world, the US+Israel, Iran and Turkey..                  

I love you too !!!

A curious question; which Western newspapers or TV channels featured the private pictures of Khaddafi´s daughter? What was the purpose of this violation of one of the basic human rights.

Pillagers raid in your house and capture your private (some of which are glamour-like shots) pictures and you see them in press next day. Who is patting on the shoulders of these savages? What kind of a relationship is there between them?

you have the Mirror, the guardian, the telegraph there is also the huffington post, the times of India pretty much every papers of the world jumped on the photos.

basicly if you are famouse or infamouse, any pictures taken or found is fair game to publish and it is yet another way to humiliate even more the surviving family of Gaddafi.

the world now only lives with sensational news, if it is boring day to day things it is no longer news worthy.

Good question...Saddam,when compared to president Bush, was an angel...but, enjoying his post-presidency at his home in the Preston Hollow neighborhood in Dallas, Mr.Bush is now an "apostle of democracy and liberation" despite he´s responsible for over 1 million deaths in Iraq, and the poor Saddam is a dictator sleeping in his grave in his native village Awja with an American rope around his neck.. 

the same right and reasoning that lets you post pictures of your son without his consent or knowledge.

I would not squander to much of your time on this issue when you live in a country that allows/ overlooks the fact the woman are being killed by their husbands daily. Where freedom of vocal or written thought  is not allowed unless it is to agree at what a wonderful job your ..... there are so many other pressing issues to deal with.

This is probably the most (looking for a softer statement here, help me TC members) answer I have ever received from anyone.

Logically, you should not even bother protesting me amid all our woes and fears related with terror, eartquakes and the stuff.

As a matter of fact, we must all mind our own business who cares about Khaddafi, I can´t even spell his name. With the world being full of jerks and nuts I must put a limit on my expectations. Why move a finger? Why worry? Just let it go...

I give up answering stumpy, tunci and other users alike. oh, yes, they are right 

strange you understand her question   i didnt

I am not sure if I understood her question correctly  

I didn´t know that..thank you for the information...but he must be safe in the United States

but you used your chance    hehe

hes doing well and says hello to you.

Quote: scalpel

I didn´t know that..thank you for the information...but he must be safe in the United States

He is not much of a traveller, even when he was in office.

Like my grandpa But the highest position he had ever got was being the elected head of my village.. poor him.. he lieved in a wrong country..if he had lived there in the United States he would be the president then

what question did I ask. I merely implied to Vineyard with all his implications of others and the slander and insults he gives  to the west that his own backyard is pretty dirty too. He asked what right did someone have to put photo´s up of Gaddafi´s family and I said the same right that he had when he posted his photo of his son. If someone wishes to share they will....

the dog still travels

A group of nearly 200 human rights activists, Occupy Vancouver members and 9/11 conspiracy theorists screamed abuse at police outside a Surrey hotel Thursday for not arresting former U.S. President George W. Bush for alleged war crimes.

"Do your job and enforce the law," shouted the demonstrators at the police, while Bush and former U.S. president Bill Clinton were inside the Guildford Sheraton Hotel speaking to about 500 people who had paid $599 each to attend the fourth annual Surrey Economic Summit.

read carefully. not you.

It was not you but aida krishan  

I am aware of the Surrey episode but hey what can Canada do when it shares an 8,891 km border with the United States? 

 To be honest I don´t care whether you give up or not  as I have more important issues and events to  think on and worry about than quarreling with you..People are going through some hard times in Turkey and I wont spend my time commenting on your childish comments...

This is not a game of my backyard vs your backyard. We are talking about democracy and freedom(s).

You did

No comment.

These kids have a lot to learn from you. But they prefer to think you belong to their kindergarten.

I don´t think there are "innocent parties" in the world of politics.  We could spend the rest of our lives saying the West did this, Arabs did that...it will accomplish nothing.  All people need to leave cruelty and barbarity as part of human history.  No leader or country has bloodless hands.  Once we stop seeing eachother as West, East, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Arab, Turk, or whatever, only then will we be able to truely see the world from another human´s point of view.  What is the point of going back and naming other acts of cruelty to justify a new one?  What would you say to your children who say, "oh, I did this because so-in-so did that!"  Most parents would tell them that you can´t behave like that.  What I did see was a human being, his body being defiled and people rejoicing in another´s misery.  Exactly the kind of thing he was accused of doing.  I would think that the first act of a people who wanted "liberation" would not be an act of cruelty.  I have little faith that this new government or the people of Libya have any idea what they want.  

There are already people who see beyond the conventional stereotypes but those people are called naive, stupid, ignorant, idealists, hypocrites and on  and on and they are told to shut up because they do not know what they speak of.  So it is ok to treat a tirant the same way he treated others, an eye for an eye a tooth for tooth, that is what is said.  There is no way to break this cycle of violence because there will always be someone there to strike with a closed fist.

All I can say is let the liberators be judged by their actions, the only defense they will have is "well he did it to us for over 40 years".  Yes Libya is free of the clutches of Gaddafi but the tyranical cycle will repeat itself, people do not learn from the past, they only repeat the same actions over and over again.

It is not only Arabs that do this. It seems to be part of the human psyche. The lowest part. We hope to work on our highest level, but unfortunatly, some, too many operate on the lizard brain. 

Compassion, humility, respect, shame are not existant in all, so it seems. Evidance the events in the US where blacks were hung from trees by lynch mobs. The hangings were attended by whole famlies shamelessly taking glee in the events.  

This website has photos and forum on the subject of lynching in the US. 

The following is a link to a song sung by Billie Holiday. 

"Southern trees bear a strange fruit,

Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,

Black body swinging in the Southern breeze,

Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant South,

The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,

Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh,

And the sudden smell of burning flesh!

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck,

For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,

For the sun to rot, for a tree to drop,

Here is a strange and bitter crop."

My point is, it can, and has happened everyplace. We need to stay morally strong and resist these base and ugly instincts. We can be the highest of the high or the lowest of the low.

 On the contrary, stumpy, I believe MOST people see beyond stereotypes.  Stereotypes are force fed to us by the media who insist on ONLY showing the worst aspects of human behavior.  I see dozens of acts of kindness everyday.  That is not to say that I don´t see extreme cruelty...I do.  I work in a hospital and healthcare workers see the full spectrum of humanity, good, evil and indifferent.  We must fight the urge to see the world thru the eyes of people who would have us believe that everything is terrible and rotten. 

In any case, whether or not Gaddafi was a tyrant is something for his people to decide...not us armchair warriors thousands of miles away.  I was just hoping that once he was caught, he could be brought to some kind of justice rather than seeing a "liberated" people behave like animals. 

Well to add to the humiliation of his killing, Gaddafi was alledgedly buried face down so as not to claw his way out of his grave.  Now this cannot be verified since the location of his burial has been kept secret.

This just shows you how deep the urge to humiliate and belittle a human life, be it how tyranical or cruel you were in life, can be done to you after your death.

If so, this means they didn´t follow the islamic burial procedure..they didn´t follow the rules about how to place a muslim´s dead body in his grave..Maybe they didn´t perform salat ul janazah (funeral prayer for deceased) either..Let´s hope it´s just a rumour..

the way they dealt with him and then with his body was not the way should people do who claim to believe in God who is merciful.

no forgiveness and no peace in them. they couldnt forgive even his dead body. not that i care for deads n graves, but have to mention the bestiality people have in them.