Living - working in Turkey |
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Culture in Turkey
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| 1. |
13 Jun 2006 Tue 09:19 pm |
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Hi,
When I was in Turkey, I could see that some women dress modestly while some are not so. Given that Turkey is a Muslim country, I believe it is quite important that the women are well covered. But it contradicts what I see. Can someone share with me on this?
Let's say, i dress more openly, what is the persepctive from the eyes of the turks? If :
1. i am a tourist,
2. i am staying there
3. i am married to a turk
Thanks.
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| 2. |
13 Jun 2006 Tue 09:29 pm |
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In fact, being covered is not the first/most important thing of Islam. Also you cannot force people to cover themselves.
By the way, I think, everyone has a different Islam in their mind  Really! I don't judge or critisize anyone, but I am not sure whether everyone cares about what the real religion is, or not.
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| 3. |
13 Jun 2006 Tue 10:40 pm |
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I think this is one of the wrongest images of dominantly muslum countries. It's thought that in a dominantly muslum country (not Islam country as Türkiye is secular), all the women are covered, and are not free. There's no night life etc etc... Covering yourself is about your choice, well the radical islamists don't like this, but it's so in Türkiye.
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| 4. |
13 Jun 2006 Tue 10:46 pm |
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| 5. |
13 Jun 2006 Tue 10:58 pm |
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Quoting vonnyz:
1. i am a tourist,
2. i am staying there
3. i am married to a turk
Thanks. |
And for your questions. All these perspectives depend on which part and which kind of surrounding you're going to. Türkiye is not very homogenous about social views. You can dress very open clothes and still you won't be viewed bad if you're in "the place" that would tolerate it. Usually those places are the more entellectual and economically rather high places of the big cities like İstanbul, İzmir, Ankara etc. Nobody would care much if you drink, go to clubs etc. Those part of the society lives a western life.
But this is rather a small portion of Türkiye, let's say 10% of all the Turkish population.
And there're in betweens where you don't have to cover yourself, yet still be careful about your behaviours. You can work, live a modern life, but you're not much welcomed to live a very western life. There're some limits to woman.
And ofcourse the other part where I can easily say that you're definitely a second class person as a woman.
Even if your surrounding, family, close friends etc. are very open, modern people, there can be times when you have to be more careful about your dressing and behaviours etc since all the life is not just your small environment.
1- If you're a tourist, wherever you're and whatever you do unless if it's not too extreme, usually, you're tolerated and welcomed by any portion of the population. You can wear nearly whatever you want.
2- If you're staying there, things start to change its color  Now, you won't have the limitless toleration, and you have to start to adapt to your surrounding. You have to be more "proper"
3- If you marry a Turk, then things completely change. Now, you have to respect them, you shouldn't wait too much toleration, you have to change yourself.
But as I said, the degree all depends to the surrounding yuo're going to. What kind of family? etc. Maybe, you will never have to change yourself at all.
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| 6. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 01:42 am |
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So far this thread has only addressed women in Türkiye......
What about men???
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| 7. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 03:44 am |
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| 8. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 06:44 am |
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Turkia is not a Muslim country. Is it possible we use a better language here? People living in Turkia are Muslim. This doesn't mean the country itself is Muslim. I find it kind of annoying.
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| 9. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 08:46 am |
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| 10. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 08:55 am |
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Hi Everyone,
Pardon me for my wrong usage of words. Sorry if it cause any unhappiness. 
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| 11. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 12:10 pm |
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Quoting Aenigma: I have muslim girl friends and we have discussed this. Some of them cover themselves from head to foot while others just wear a headscarf. The general opinion, from my (English) muslim friends was that it had nothing to do with oppression but was entirely an expression of the deepness of their faith. |
Well then you have lucky friends.. But I know a few Muslim girls who live in Rotterdam and they go to school all covered and without make-up. But they always go 30 minutes before the first class starts, so that they can take their scarfs off and put on some make-up. They leave school later to take the make up off and cover themselves again. They fear their father. I don't think that would be an expression of the deepness of their faith. I always wonder if their fathers are really so cruel, or if they just don't know how to handle in a culture that is so entirely different than theirs. With the muslimpopulation in Holland we can say that they either embrace us, or reject us. I think that rejecting the Dutch culture, though living here, makes the whole family feel torn
But the point is that I do think this is not only about religion, mostly about lifestyle. And lifestyles ofcourse get influenced by religious beliefs, but we must not forget to distinguish them. I think if you go live in Turkey you must be able to adapt the traditions/lifestyle of the place you live in, in order to respect the people that live there, but you don't have to change your faith for it. After all, if you enter a mosque in Türkiye or a church in Italy while sightseeing, and you cover your shoulders, you do this out of respect for the people and not because you changed your beliefs.
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| 12. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 12:30 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: In fact, being covered is not the first/most important thing of Islam. |
who told u that !!!!! 
hair ove in islam is order of God same as the pray .
to expalin , for example: if your boss at work ask u to do 2 reports and u only did one only one said the other is not important , so the boss will bunish u ..
thats the hair cover , order of GOd,
so how could any one say about order of god that its not important !!!!!!
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| 13. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 12:43 pm |
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Quoting mltm: I think this is one of the wrongest images of dominantly muslum countries, all the women are covered, and are not free. Covering yourself is about your choice, well the radical islamists don't like this, but it's so in Türkiye. |
mltum, who told u that (all the women are covered, and are not free. )
see what all covered girls say :
As i get ready to go into the outside world
I look in the mirror
What do i see?
My beauty
Then i slip on the hijab
why?
I cover my outer beauty
So you take a look at my inner beauty
I step into the cruel and unjust society
of this "free" country
i look at avoiding eyes and stares
i hear whispering from every side
i think to myself "i am not here to please everyone"
i am here to please Allah
then i hold my head with the hijab high
Allah has chosen this jihad for me to overcome
yes this is my jihad
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| 14. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 01:27 pm |
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Quoting yusuf : Quoting caliptrix: In fact, being covered is not the first/most important thing of Islam. |
who told u that !!!!!
hair ove in islam is order of God same as the pray .
to expalin , for example: if your boss at work ask u to do 2 reports and u only did one only one said the other is not important , so the boss will bunish u ..
thats the hair cover , order of GOd,
so how could any one say about order of god that its not important !!!!!! |
Can you say "A girl who is not covered, is a girl who doesnt care religious" or "..is a girl who doesnt care God"? Is it so easy? Also i didn't say "not important"! Sure it is very important!
But believe me, everyone has a different Islam in their mind, and there are too many people who never accept that to cover yout hair is the biggest order of God. I am so sorry.
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| 15. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 01:55 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: everyone has a different Islam in their mind, and there are too many people who never accept that to cover yout hair is the biggest order of God. I am so sorry. |
I completely agree with Caliptrix. Not only about Islam. The same goes for any other religion. Every religion has it's own orders and demands. But God is not something you can find in imposing buildings or in out of date writings. God is inside you. Has no name and no identity. You call him Allah, we call him Theos, others call him Buddha. No matter how we call him, he is there for all of us. And God can't be revengeful. He is not a boss to fire you. He is someone to protect and save you.
You can visit the mosque often, cover all your body and in the same time lie, cheat and deceive. Or fast and wish for a big plate of kokorec at the same time. Or walk around like a ninja, with those head covers, but making the worst thoughts ever. What does that make you? A good muslim?
And Yusuf, do you know something? There is a small detail missing, which proves to be the most important one: the eyes are not covered. And there is nothing more seductive on a woman, than the look in her eyes.
I was at Antalya, 2 years ago. There was a young lady, covered from head to toes. Her eyes were making love with every man there was in that restaurant. I was shocked. I had never seen such a desire in human eyes before...
Think about it a little
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| 16. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 02:56 pm |
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Tell me yusuf ,
When one of your fellow countrymen sees a completely covered lady in the front seat of a car driven by a totally strange gentleman, how can he be sure the covered lady is not his own wife or sister?
Masks are rarely worn for honorable purposes. I lived in hijab wearing countries. I know the finer points of life there.. 
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| 17. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 08:02 pm |
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To be honest, I like to see the covered women on the Turkish roads. It is so traditional! I have also seen a little girl covered but she seems to had no problem, playing with uncovered kids near Golden horn. If a woman likes to be covered, then what is the problem? On the other hand, the god is in us, we can adore him as we wish, with no labels. In fact, any time I am outside a cami, I feel to make my cross, as being in a church!
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| 18. |
14 Jun 2006 Wed 08:52 pm |
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Quoting sophie: But God is not something you can find in imposing buildings or in out of date writings. God is inside you. Has no name and no identity. You call him Allah, we call him Theos, others call him Buddha. |
I call him Bod 
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| 19. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 11:28 am |
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Quoting sophie:
And Yusuf, do you know something? There is a small detail missing, which proves to be the most important one: the eyes are not covered. And there is nothing more seductive on a woman, than the look in her eyes.
I was at Antalya, 2 years ago. There was a young lady, covered from head to toes. Her eyes were making love with every man there was in that restaurant. I was shocked. I had never seen such a desire in human eyes before...
Think about it a little
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dear sophie ,, what i want tell in that hejab is amean not at target it self,,,,
its target for peae u may ask how?
i will say , any man could agree that another man share him in any thing exept his (girl) ,
and can feel that from love words for example, when some one say to his girl friend (u r mine) ,( u r for me only), and i notie this more in turk more than any other nation, and if u think more , u will find that islam tried to firm this feeling by the hair cover......
so man with his girl wearing hair vr of ouse feel that his girl is for him only ,and that is realy a great feeling .....
and for all friends here who wants to know how islam respect woman , and how is Women's Position in Islam just read this artiClewomans position in islam
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| 20. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 11:59 am |
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Quoting yusuf : i will say , any man could agree that another man share him in any thing exept his (girl) ,
and can feel that from love words for example, when some one say to his girl friend (u r mine) ,( u r for me only), and i notie this more in turk more than any other nation, and if u think more , u will find that islam tried to firm this feeling by the hair cover......
so man with his girl wearing hair vr of ouse feel that his girl is for him only ,and that is realy a great feeling ..... |
Yusuf dear,
When will you understand that no matter if you cover a woman's head or if you tie her up in the basement, she will always find a way to do what she wants?
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| 21. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:12 pm |
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Quoting sophie
Yusuf dear,
When will you understand that no matter if you cover a woman's head or if you tie her up in the basement, she will always find a way to do what she wants?
[/QUOTE:
of Course she Can do what she want ,what iwant to say is that hejab is mean to spead good behavor in soCiaty,
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| 22. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:27 pm |
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what i want to say is that many friends here understand the hejab as it like jale orpreson in whih islam put woman
but if we think in it we will find that its better for woman to wear hejab evn if she is not muslum..
this is athough Came to my mind about hejab:
hejab give the ChanCe to mind to speak and to the beauty of soul to appear wih is more better than the beuty of shape...
for exapmle if a guy see girl in street outing make up and dont wear hejab her shape may atraCt him (so he lovd the shape) he didnt know her soul and after marrge he will realize that she was bad
but if he see a Covered girl he will see it normal, soin order to know her he had to talk with her so he now is able to realise the inner beauty and the beuaty of soul...
this was the though, and every one if he think he will know how many things(not hejab only) apper from the first view as its bad and when he think in it Carfully he Could realize how its good..
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| 23. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:31 pm |
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But this clearly shows that in your point of view, the men on the streets judge the women and not the women looking at the men. They (the men) are un-covered so their shape is perfectly in view for the women. If wearing a hijab is to prevent jealousy and to show the inner-beauty above the outer-beauty, then why are only the women covered and not the men?
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| 24. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:35 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: But this clearly shows that in your point of view, the men on the streets judge the women and not the women looking at the men. They are un-covered so their shape is perfectly in view for the women. If wearing a hijab is to prevent jealousy and to show the inner-beauty above the outer-beauty, then why are only the women covered and not the men? |
dear deli_kizin
didnt u know that only one woman Could afeCCt 1000 man , but 1000 man Cant afeCt only one woman !!!!!!
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| 25. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:37 pm |
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Quoting yusuf :
dear deli_kizin
didnt u know that only one woman Could afeCCt 1000 man , but 1000 man Cant afeCt only one woman !!!!!!
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Then I wonder how all the girls on this website fell in love
But if I understand you right, then the hijab is not to protect from jealousy and show inner-beauty, but is just a cover up for the weakness of the male-kind.
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| 26. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:42 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
Then I wonder how all the girls on this website fell in love
But if I understand you right, then the hijab is not to protect from jealousy and show inner-beauty, but is just a cover up for the weakness of the male-kind. |
i didnt mean that girls r not afeCted ,,,nooo
both men and women has effeCt on eah others
but what i mean is that the effeCt of girls on men is more
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| 27. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:44 pm |
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Quoting yusuf : i didnt mean that girls r not afeCted ,,,nooo
both men and women has effeCt on eah others
but what i mean is that the effeCt of girls on men is more |
Well I kinda wonder about that There are thousands of love-stories in which indeed the men go through fire for the women.. but aren't these stories created by women who were actually dreaming of the existence of such men  
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| 28. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:50 pm |
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dear friends last thing i want say is that God who Creat us, who proteCt us, who like us , who reat the nature for us and to make us happy , this god is who order the girls to wear hejab and god want happenis for girls so we have to like our God and do thigs he order us to do so he like us
and giv us money food and avoid us earthquakes and other bad things and to avoid his anger ..
thats all
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| 29. |
15 Jun 2006 Thu 12:56 pm |
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Quoting yusuf : protet its proteCt
sorry i apologize my key bord dont write letter C
i write it by oping and pasting) |
sorrry it Copying not opying 
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| 30. |
16 Jun 2006 Fri 10:35 pm |
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All Yusuf says about "hijab" and covering women is total crap. Modesty is a requirement for Muslim women; but whether the Kuran actually orders Muslim women to hide their hair is a very controversial subject. Many respectable Moslem scholars seem to think there is no such requirement.
In Yusuf's country you can legally marry a 14 year old girl (even younger, if you so desire)for a predetermined period -if you are ready to pay the price. Interpretation of the Kuran order that a sex partner is forbidden, unless there is bond of marriage between the participants is so crookedly and conveniently interpreted, that nobody seems to care what happends to the girl when the contract is over. I would have very little respect for such views of Islam and Kuran.
Keep girls covered, keep them in the dark and use them as your male vanity directs. This is not Islam.
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| 31. |
10 Jul 2006 Mon 06:05 am |
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Quoting AlphaF:
Keep girls covered, keep them in the dark and use them as your male vanity directs. This is not Islam. |
You are absolutely right. Horrid acts like that are not Islam.
It is important to realize that there is a difference between Islam and Muslims ! Muslims do not always follow Islam; in fact, there is so much ignorance about what Islam really is and what it perscribes that it is easy to judge Islam by bad Muslim behavior.
Note that this is not the case only with Muslims. Not all Christians follow what Christianity perscribes, for example, and the same could be said about other religions. It's human nature that we are not perfect! However, in Islam, you try your best to follow what your religion perscribes and you are rewarded for that (your good efforts and intentions).
I do hope that more people can understand that Islam does not equal to Muslims !!! It is up to any individual who wishes to make any claims about Islam and Muslims to first educate themselves about this way of life and about the social, political, and economical situations of many many Muslims ( that might explain a lot of negative Muslim behavior) before being judgemental about Islam, the religion, AND Muslims, the people.
Thanks everyone and sorry for my loong post
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| Random Pictures of Turkey |
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