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Interesting sentence translated to help learners
(31 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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1.       Henry
2604 posts
 25 Jan 2012 Wed 03:11 am

Bir arkadaşın değerini anlamak için, yalnız kalmayı beklemeyin.

A non-literal translation would be -

Don’t wait until you are alone before you understand the value of a friend.

Here is my breakdown that may help some learners understand the sentence construction

Bir = one, a / an [here it means ´a´]

arkadaş = friend

arkadaşın = your friend OR friend´s (genitive noun) [here it means friend´s]

değer = value, worth

bir arkadaşın değeri = a friend´s value = the value of a friend

[note the genitive construction of the suffixes above in red]

 anlamak (verb) = to understand

bir arkadaşın değerini anlamak = to understand the value of a friend

[note the buffer letter n and the accusative suffix i in blue above, which is neccessary tie the noun to the verb]

için = for, in order to, because,

yalnız = alone

kalmak (verb) = to stay, to remain

yalnız kalmak = to be alone, to become lonely

yalnız kalma = here it means ´being alone´ (verbal noun)

i/ beklemek = to wait

yalnız kalma beklemek = to wait being alone

[note the buffer letter y and the accusative suffix ı in purple above, which is neccessary tie the verbal noun to the verb]

beklememek = to not wait

bekleme = do not wait [imperative, command]

beklemeyin = you do not wait [imperative for 2nd person singular, ´you´]

yalnız kalmayı beklemeyin = don´t you wait becoming lonely

I hope my breakdown is correct Smile




Edited (1/25/2012) by Henry

archinia, Pakinam90, Donkeyoaty, Grena76, cmmc and 3 others liked this message
2.       Abla
3647 posts
 25 Jan 2012 Wed 07:41 pm

Interesting post, Henry. I notice you analyse the sentence quite linearly, from left to right. I am surprised it works so well. But why shouldn´t it, that´s what the speaker does also, puts one word after another... I always try to start with the main constituents and their modifiers. Maybe I am too much attracted to my habits.

Henry and nifrtity liked this message
3.       Henry
2604 posts
 26 Jan 2012 Thu 02:46 am

 

Quoting Abla

Interesting post, Henry. I notice you analyse the sentence quite linearly, from left to right. I am surprised it works so well. But why shouldn´t it, that´s what the speaker does also, puts one word after another... I always try to start with the main constituents and their modifiers. Maybe I am too much attracted to my habits.

 

I guess I haven´t thought deeply about the methods I use to translate Turkish sentences. Generally I will read the whole sentence and study the final verb to work out the subject and action. Then I look whether the sentence object has a suffix, and often use dictionaries to check what type of case the verb uses (accusative, dative, etc). Some verbs I now recognise, but often there are several possible meanings. I also work on the modifiers last, unless I recognise simple structures.

I noticed that some Turkish teachers suggest working backwards from the verb, especially in complex sentences, so that you can work out what´s modifying what.

I must also thank you abla for the huge reference section you have created on this site as you learn. Thanks to your translation attempts, questions and observations, and most importantly, the thorough explanations given by Turks such as tunci, scalpel, si++, gokuyum and others, this site has improved as a reference for all learners.

For everyone that helps others here my sincere thanks {#emotions_dlg.applause}

 

 

Kath, gokuyum and Sir_Robalot liked this message
4.       Abla
3647 posts
 26 Jan 2012 Thu 08:59 am

They are just amazing people, aren´t they? And so are you, Henry. Please, go on with this thread, I´m sure it is useful for many learners even as an encouragement. I may add something, too, if one day I don´t have anything to do. Turkish sentences may look complicated but with intent analyse it´s possible to tame them.

I have found one method which is not so scholarly but which sometimes helps. Read the sentence loud. Read it many times. You may catch the rhythm in it.

5.       Abla
3647 posts
 27 Jan 2012 Fri 10:06 pm

 

This is tunci’s sentence from an old thread. For some reason I liked it and saved it for future use:

Simit, hem zenginin hem de fakirin severek yediği tek yiyecektir.

(simit ‘bagel’, hem…hem de ‘both…and’, zengin ‘rich’, fakir ‘poor’, sevmek ‘to like’, tek ‘the only’, yemek ‘to eat’ ) 

First it is important to understand that this is a nominal sentence. For reasons which are told below the last word looks like a verb but it is a noun combined with the copula ‘to be’. So, what is basically said is

> A bagel is something.

yi|y|ecek = verb stem + BUFFER + future participle marking ‘something to eat, food’. Some future participles have frozen into nouns, yiyecek is one of them, but luckily we can still recognize it from its parts.

> A bagel is [something to eat].

As we now have the subject and the predicate, what we find in between is probably modifiers or the nominal predicate, i.e. it tells us something about yiyecek.

There are two modifiers, an adjective and a subclause:

1. Let’s take the easy one, tek, first:

> A bagel is the only [something to eat].

2. The sentence is hem zengin ve hem fakir yer/yiyor ‘both rich and poor eat’. When a whole sentence is changed into an attribute, changes happen. They usually happen in the subject (> genitive zengin|in, fakir|in) and in the predicate (> participle ye|diğ|i = verb stem + participle marking + possessive suffix sg 3rd).

There is a small gerund sev|erek in the middle: -erek usually denotes the way something is done, ‘in a loving way, with pleasure’.

> A bagel is [both rich and poor with pleasure eat] only [something to eat].

A native English speaker should take the last step but I will give it a try:

‘A bagel is the only thing both rich and poor people eat with pleasure.’

 



Edited (1/27/2012) by Abla
Edited (1/28/2012) by Abla
Edited (1/28/2012) by Abla

scalpel, Mavili and Henry liked this message
6.       Mavili
236 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:09 am

For people like me who are doing self paced learning, this forum has been wonderful. I definitly know that you can learn more completly when you have someone to explain why a grammar rule works the way it does. True, both Abla and you Henry are inspiration and modest about it{#emotions_dlg.angel} but you really do deserve the praise. I would feel it an honor to attend a Turkish class with both of you.Smile

 

Kath liked this message
7.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 12:56 pm

Here´s some interesting lyrics from a song (See especilly the red part):

 

Ümitsiz günlerimde
Kendimle avundum
İçimdeki her şeyi yitirdim
Seni buldum
Şimdi ben senin oluyormuş gibiyim

Sıcak geceler gibi
Al beni kollarına bu gece
Dokunsalar ağlayacak
Çocuk gibiyim
Denizdeki dalgaların ucuna
Beni sal bu gece
Her yeni gün doğacak
Çocuk gibiyim
Gibi gibiyim

8.       Henry
2604 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:08 pm

my attempt

Dokunsalar ağlayacak
Çocuk gibiyim

I am like a child that will cry if they upset me

Doğru mu?

Donkeyoaty liked this message
9.       harp00n
3993 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:15 pm

 

Quoting Henry

my attempt

Dokunsalar ağlayacak
Çocuk gibiyim

I am like a child that will cry if they upset me

Doğru mu?

 

I´m like a child that will cry if they touch me.

 

10.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:16 pm

 

Quoting Henry

my attempt

Dokunsalar ağlayacak
Çocuk gibiyim

I am like a child that will cry if they upset me

Doğru mu?

 

Close.

I would do it this way:

I am like a child who would cry if they were to touch (him/her).

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