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Interesting sentence translated to help learners
(31 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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10.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:16 pm

 

Quoting Henry

my attempt

Dokunsalar ağlayacak
Çocuk gibiyim

I am like a child that will cry if they upset me

Doğru mu?

 

Close.

I would do it this way:

I am like a child who would cry if they were to touch (him/her).

11.       harp00n
3993 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:23 pm

Its present tense

12.       Henry
2604 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:23 pm

Hmmm my English was poor {#emotions_dlg.sad}

"who would cry" is better, and thanks for giving the correct meaning Smile 

13.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:25 pm

 

Quoting harp00n

Its present tense

 

Yes but hypothetical. Similar to

If I were you

14.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:29 pm

 

Quoting Henry

 

 

I guess I haven´t thought deeply about the methods I use to translate Turkish sentences. Generally I will read the whole sentence and study the final verb to work out the subject and action. Then I look whether the sentence object has a suffix, and often use dictionaries to check what type of case the verb uses (accusative, dative, etc). Some verbs I now recognise, but often there are several possible meanings. I also work on the modifiers last, unless I recognise simple structures.

I noticed that some Turkish teachers suggest working backwards from the verb, especially in complex sentences, so that you can work out what´s modifying what.

I must also thank you abla for the huge reference section you have created on this site as you learn. Thanks to your translation attempts, questions and observations, and most importantly, the thorough explanations given by Turks such as tunci, scalpel, si++, gokuyum and others, this site has improved as a reference for all learners.

For everyone that helps others here my sincere thanks {#emotions_dlg.applause}

 

 

 

I wonder if there are some sites of similar kind (with free membership, helping people around, etc.) for other languages. I am interested in Italian and Spanish and maybe Russian.

15.       Henry
2604 posts
 28 Jan 2012 Sat 02:40 pm

 

Quoting si++

I wonder if there are some sites of similar kind (with free membership, helping people around, etc.) for other languages. I am interested in Italian and Spanish and maybe Russian.

 

Livemocha.com is useful.

Just be very selective with adding friends. Choose people who are native speakers and also have lots of points from teaching others. It has helped me find Turks who have really helped with understanding Turkish. 

16.       Abla
3648 posts
 29 Jan 2012 Sun 12:28 pm

 

The future participle often pays my attention in texts. It’s a beautiful verb form. In many sentences it has a huge power of expressing complicated meanings in short.

In the fairy tale of Emperor’s New Chothes (Kralın Elbisesi) the famous foreign weavers’ products are described with this sentence.

Renklere ve desenlere diyecek yoktu.

(renk ‘colour’, desen ‘design, pattern’, demek ‘to say’ )

A quick glance shows that it is a sentence which talks about existence. Or actually non-existence. yok|tu = yok + past tense marking.

> There was not [something].

When we begin to gather material inside the brackets we notice that this time the subject cannot be in the beginning of the sentence. renk|ler|e and desen|ler|e have dative endings and thus they must be parallel modifiers for the next word, diyecek, which is the only alternative for the subject.

> There was not [something for colours and patterns].

It seems that the whole clue is in this small word di|y|ecek = verb stem de- + BUFFER + future marking. The syntactic position of the subject makes it impossible to interpret it as a verbal future form of demek even though it looks the same.

The future participle form expresses time but also often ability, possibility. Participles are usually adjectives, but as diyecek is standing alone here without a governor it must be governing itself and that’s why we can look at it as a noun. We get something like

> There was not [(future possible to say) (for colors and patterns)].

Some creativity is needed in order to transfer the meaning into English. My Try:

‘Nothing could be said for the colours or the patterns.’

No, we have to go a step further:

‘It was impossible to describe the colours and patterns with words.’

 



Edited (1/29/2012) by Abla

Mavili liked this message
17.       Mavili
236 posts
 29 Jan 2012 Sun 05:01 pm

I am amazed again Abla. Your explanation on that sentence is quite clear.{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

Quoting Abla

...

The future participle form expresses time but also often ability, possibility. Participles are usually adjectives, but as diyecek is standing alone here without a governor it must be governing itself and that’s why we can look at it as a noun. We get something like

> There was not [(future possible to say) (for colors and patterns)].

Some creativity is needed in order to transfer the meaning into English. My Try:

‘Nothing could be said for the colours or the patterns.’

No, we have to go a step further:

‘It was impossible to describe the colours and patterns with words.’

 

 

Its that creativity you speak of that I often find difficult. One would think if I could understand the Turkish words, then realizing what is being said and the context of it in English would be clear. However they way Turkish is structured, it is not always expressed the same way as it would be in English. So its not always so cut and dry. As an English speaking learner, I found I had to toss out many preconceptions that a given suffix only has one job. 

I know -ki has many uses and doesn´t -dir also have many uses?

18.       ercheksargo
12 posts
 30 Jan 2012 Mon 11:39 am

 

Quoting Abla

 Renklere ve desenlere diyecek yoktu.

 

There was nothing to say about the colours and design.

 Would this translation be still legitimate?

19.       harp00n
3993 posts
 30 Jan 2012 Mon 11:51 am

 

Quoting ercheksargo

 

Quoting Abla

 Renklere ve desenlere diyecek yoktu.

 

There was nothing to say about the colours and design.

 Would this translation be still legitimate?

 

Yes, right translation, but i wont be able to say anything about "legitimate"

20.       Abla
3648 posts
 30 Jan 2012 Mon 01:23 pm

I think the one you quoted, ercheksargo, is still quite literal. That´s why I suggested the last alternative

         ‘It was impossible to describe the colours and patterns with words’

which I think is better but of course risky, especially because I don´t master either of the languages well enough. But there is always a chance for debate, no matter how we say it.

By the way, I will open another thread about translation problems. I will do it  -  now.



Edited (1/30/2012) by Abla [Corrected the nic ercheks...whatever.]

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