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GERUNDS
(37 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
1 2 3 [4]
30.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 11:24 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

No.

 

So how do you define "gerund" in English? I have provided definitions and examples so far.

 

I would like to hear what definition you stick to.

 

31.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 11:30 am

Quote:si++

I repeat: what they call "gerund" in English is called "isimfiil" in Turkish.

 

When you put it this way I agree.

 

But you can use other definitions of gerund in other languages if you like. Even if you speak about them in English. In any academic dissertation pages and pages are used for defining the terms used in that particular work.

 

Don´t get me wrong, si++. All the way I have understood what you mean. And I have learned some things from this thread.

32.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 11:46 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

When you put it this way I agree.

 

But you can use other definitions of gerund in other languages if you like. Even if you speak about them in English. In any academic dissertation pages and pages are used for defining the terms used in that particular work.

 

Don´t get me wrong, si++. All the way I have understood what you mean. And I have learned some things from this thread.

 

What other languages? There is no such word as "gerund" in Turkish. And we talk here in English.

33.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 11:58 am

Quote:si++

There is no such word as "gerund" in Turkish.

 

Some people talk about Turkish gerunds and I can´t see they commit a sin by doing so if they explain what they mean. I´m sure you don´t accept the concept of Turkish auxiliaries either (we have discussed it) but the term is used and it is ok as long as it is well defined.

 

Come on, certainly you understand what I mean by speaking in a certain language and speaking about the system of a certain language. The latter is very much a question of agreement.

 

You are just trying to trip me up.

34.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 12:13 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

 

You are just trying to trip me up.

 

I just made a simple comment about gerunds (See post# 3) and then I was the one who was tried to trip up.

35.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Jul 2012 Sun 12:18 pm

Quote:si++

I was the one who was tried to trip up.

 

 

It wasn´t that easy. Maybe next time.

36.       si++
3785 posts
 20 Jul 2012 Fri 11:45 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

Ok. Let´s rename it then..What would your suggestion be Si++ ?

See below. "Gerundive" is the term you are looking for.

Is there any English grammar term that exactly fits to " Zarf Fiil " ? Or shall we just use Turkish name for it [ Ulaç or Zarf fiil ]?

 

 

Distinguishing the three types of verbals takes a little practice, but is not very difficult if the following sequence of questions is used:

 

Look for gerunds first, then gerundives; if the verbal is not a gerund or gerundive, it has to be an infinitive.

 

Gerunds and gerundives are recognizable by their participial form (usually ending in "-ed" or "-ing"). 

 

If the participle functions as a noun, it is a gerund.

  •  
      Subject: Skiing is fun.
      Direct Object: They like skiing.
      Object of Preposition: They were talking about skiing.


If the participle does not function as a noun, it has to be a gerundive. This means that the verb connects as an adjective to another word in the sentence. To find that word, you should ask a question with "Who is" or "What is."

  •  
      Skiing for the first time, he fell and broke his ankle.

Who or what is skiing? According to this sentence, "he" is, so "skiing" modifies "he."

    

If the verbal is not a gerund or gerundive, it has to be an infinitive.

Infinitives can function as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs, and, as usual, the function is determined by finding the word that the infinitive chunks to.


     An infinitive can exist not only without the "to," but even without "appearing" at all. Consider the sentence:

They made Paul president.

It seems silly to say that "Paul" is the direct object of "made." The sentence does not mean that they made Paul. (God and Paul´s parents made Paul.) And obviously the sentence does not mean that they made president. Rather, the sentence means that they made Paul *to be* president. Native speakers of English would never put the "to be" in this sentence, but its existence below the surface is suggested by other, similar cases:

They chose Paul to be president.
They wanted Paul to be president.
They elected Paul to be president.

37.       si++
3785 posts
 20 Jul 2012 Fri 12:29 pm

  1. Verbals from Turkish point of view:

 

isim = noun

sıfat =adjective

zarf = adverb

fiil = verb

 

isim-fiil = (lit. noun verb) a verbal form that functions as a noun (Eng. gerund, infinitive)

sıfat-fiil = (lit. adjective verb) a verbal form that functions as an adjective (Eng. gerundive)

zarf-fiil = (lit. adverbverb) a verbal form that functions as an adverb (Eng. gerundive)

 

Turkish is very rich with many "zarf-fiil" forms. My grammar books has a chart with many names (suffixes/forms):

 

Zarffiil cümlesi (Arverbial clauses)

  • Yanyana cümle (side by side clause) 
  1. Ulama (-ip suffix)
  2. Karşıtlama (-se de, -diği halde, -ecek yerde, -sizin)
  3. Üsteleme (-diği gibi)
  • Altalta cümle (One under another or one inside another clause)
  1. Hal cümlesi (-erek suffix)
  2. Zaman cümlesi (See below)
  3. Sebep cümlesi (-diğinden, diği için, -eceklerinden, -eceği içn)
  4. Karşılaştırma cümlesi (See below)
  5. Sonuç cümlesi (-mekle, -eceğine göre)
  6. Amaç cümlesi (-mek için, -meye)
  7. Şart cümlesi (See below)

 

Zaman Cümlesi:

  1. Sonralık cümlesi (-dikten sonra)
  2. Öncelik cümlesi (-meden)
  3. Bitim cümlesi (-ceye kadar/dek, -ene kadar/dek))
  4. Başlangıç cümlesi (-eli, -dikten beri)
  5. Eşzaman cümlesi (-diğinde, -diği zaman)
  6. Vakitleme cümlesi (-dikçe, -diği sürece)
  7. İzleme cümlesi (-ince, -diği zaman, -di mi, -er -mez)

 

Karşılaştırma cümlesi

  1. Gerçek K. cümlesi (-diği gibi, -diği kadar, -eceği kadar)
  2. Tutmaca K. cümlesi (-miş gibi, -miş kadar, -mişcesine)

 

Şart cümlesi

  1. Olağan şart cümlesi (-diği takdirde, -mesi halinde)
  2. Olmayası şart cümlesi (-diği takdirde, -mesi halinde)

 

 

 

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