Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
-si?
(20 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
1 [2]
10.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Oct 2012 Sun 09:42 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

"s" is not a buffer letter. It is the part of the suffix. Only buffer letter in Turkish is "y"

 

 

Yes. Right. I also mentioned it several times in forums here.

 

It´s not a buffer letter but part of the suffix. Probably -s- has dropped over time after closed syllables (those that end with a consonant).

11.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 21 Oct 2012 Sun 11:07 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

In fact , there are different views on "buffering consonants"  and there is not total agreement over this issue among linguists. And they called them different names.

 

 

It seems so. Still I stick with Muharrem Ergin.

 

12.       Abla
3647 posts
 21 Oct 2012 Sun 10:15 pm

Quote:trip

I want to say something like: Orhan Pamuk´s "The Black Book."

 

My Try:

 

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap"ı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" romanı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" adlı romanı

trip liked this message
13.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 22 Oct 2012 Mon 09:28 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

My Try:

 

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap"ı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" romanı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" adlı romanı

 

All of them are correct.

14.       trip
297 posts
 22 Oct 2012 Mon 10:36 pm

Quote: Abla

My Try:

 

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap"ı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" romanı OR

Orhan Pamuk´un "Kara kitap" adlı romanı


 

I realized after I signed off the other night that I should have used "-un" on "Pamuk," not "-ın." There is so much to think about in Turkish!

I had thought that perhaps the quotation marks would come off the book title because of a recent exercise here that didn´t use quote marks around "Titanic" when there was a suffix attached.

One last question: The "p" in "kitap" does not need to be come a "b" when the "ı" is added? Is this simply because the quotation marks come in between? 

Teşekkürler!

15.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 22 Oct 2012 Mon 10:43 pm

 

Quoting trip

 

 

I realized after I signed off the other night that I should have used "-un" on "Pamuk," not "-ın." There is so much to think about in Turkish!

I had thought that perhaps the quotation marks would come off the book title because of a recent exercise here that didn´t use quote marks around "Titanic" when there was a suffix attached.

One last question: The "p" in "kitap" does not need to be come a "b" when the "ı" is added? Is this simply because the quotation marks come in between

Teşekkürler!

Yes. But we will still pronounce it as "b" because we can´t speak with quotation marks

 



Edited (10/22/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (10/22/2012) by gokuyum

trip liked this message
16.       Abla
3647 posts
 29 Oct 2012 Mon 01:30 pm

Quote:gokuyum

Yes. But we will still pronounce it as "b" because we can´t speak with quotation marks

 

Don´t you use this gesture:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJkcZwW4gmo  ?

17.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 29 Oct 2012 Mon 01:35 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

Don´t you use this gesture:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJkcZwW4gmo  ?

 

 

No

18.       Abla
3647 posts
 29 Oct 2012 Mon 01:51 pm

Interesting. Some people use it all the time and it is quite irritating.

 

I was wondering something.

 

The rule is when the compound has a real owner it always edges out the grammatical owner, for instance

 

                                   yatak oda|sı BUT

                                   yatak oda|m

 

Could this rule be taken advantage of also the other way round. I suggest a simple possessive suffix test: if (in principle) it was possible to attach a possessive suffix referring to a real owner in the end of the compound wouldn´t it be a quite certain sign that the first part of this compound cannot take genitive (which would make it the real owner)?

 

For instance

 

                                     evin bahçe|si

 

cannot be mine:

 

                                      **evin bahçe|m

 

It seems to work wıth the examples I have in mind but they are not so many. I would especially like to know if it works on a more abstract level like

 

                                       Genç Osman lise|si

                                       ??Genç Osman lise|miz

19.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Oct 2012 Mon 03:15 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

For instance

 

                                     evin bahçe|si

 

cannot be mine:

 

                                      **evin bahçe|m

 

It seems to work wıth the examples I have in mind but they are not so many. I would especially like to know if it works on a more abstract level like

 

                                       Genç Osman lise|si

                                       ??Genç Osman lise|miz

 

Possessor+GEN Possessed+POSS

 

Possessor is "ben" for "bahçe-m". So:

ben-im bahçe-m

 

Simialarly, Possessor is "biz" for "Genç Osman lise-miz". So:

Biz-im Genç Osman lise-miz



Edited (10/29/2012) by si++

20.       ninacath
7 posts
 29 Oct 2012 Mon 05:39 pm

i beg to differ re the ´S´ is not a buffer letter..

buffer letters are very important and need to be understood early on in learning

they are needed

to separate suffixes   

to separate consecutive vowels   

for general language harmonics

there are four fusion or buffer letters in Turkish S Ş Y N

the system in turkişsh is .as i am sure you know..kaynaştırma

Ş is only used in distributive words  biri  -Ş er one each    iki-  Ş er..two each etc

the following is from a childrens Dil Bilgisi here in Turkey where i live and is the way the children are taught about bufer letters in school

ünlü ile biten bir sözcüğeyine ünlü ile başlayan bir ek geldiğinde,iki ünlü arasına

n, s, ş, y harlerınden biri gelir. bu olaya kaynaştırma denir

 

 

The -s- buffer letter is only used with the third person suffix -i, -ı, -u, -ü meaning his, her, its. The suffix -i -ı -ü -u - his, her, its - always takes buffer letter -s- threby  taking the form -si -sı -sü -su when added to a root word which ends in a vowel.and for learners regardless of the history of the language and its evolvement from Ottoman roots this is easier for a learner to understand

-s-

For indirect ´possession´ -- involving pronouns.

karasevdası

his/her/its hopeless love

-s-

With compound nouns.

bira fabrikası

beer factory

-n-

For direct possession -- pronouns not involved.

Ayşe´nin,
arabanın...

Ayşe´s
(i.e., something belonging to Ayşe),
of the car...

-n-

With a word that already has an indirect-possession ending.

Arabanı kullanın.

Drive his/her car.
(A command...)

-n-

With the pronouns bu, şu, o, biri.

Onu yemeyeceğim.

I won´t eat that.

-n-

With a --ki ending.

Seninkini yaptım.

I did yours.

Y is used with simple unsuffixed nouns -y- is only used with simple nouns ending in a vowel which have not already been suffixed.  kedi   becomes kedi-y-i when you want to make it specific

(20 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
1 [2]
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduğun ç...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
denizli: hmmm I ... think there are suffixes ... nor ... But I know wha...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
alerque: This sites entire user database seems to have been hacked, I´m ...
T-E
og2009: ...
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most liked