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Our racist oath
(105 Messages in 11 pages - View all)
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10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 11:17 am

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

its not racist. its nationalist. because turkey is a nation, not an ethnic race. there are around 200 different turkish ethnicities in the world, 75 of them present in modern turkey.

 

this is the anthem of germany:

 

German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in the world
Their old beautiful chime
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
 |: German women, German loyalty,
  German wine and German song! :|

 

there are 16 million non-germans living in germany.

 

 

 

anthem of france:

 

What does this horde of slaves,
Of traitors and conjured kings want?
For whom are these vile chains,
These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What fury it must arouse!
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!

 

of england:

 

And did those feet in ancient time.
Walk upon Englands mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

 

 

i guess none of these countries you count as humane since theyre all racist pigs.

 

 

so stop with your "racism has to go from humane societies" bullshit. all you want is to degrade turkish people.

 

 

 

It is racist.

Its racism is coming from 1930s Europe.  

Half way civilized countries abandoned  these racist oats and pledges long time ago.

Insisting on a racist oat is embarrassing for Turkish people. 

Racism has to go!!!!



Edited (10/31/2013) by thehandsom

11.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 11:50 am

Ağlatmayın Agop´u....Bizim and ırkçı deyin de kessin zırıltıyı  !     Wink



Edited (10/31/2013) by AlphaF

12.       burakk
309 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 12:31 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

It is racist.

Its racism is coming from 1930s Europe.  

Half way civilized countries abandoned  these racist oats and pledges long time ago.

Insisting on a racist oat is embarrassing for Turkish people. 

Racism has to go!!!!

 

if you find these racist then you should talk about them as well. when you open 549834593453 turkish-racist threads that do nothing but to degrade turkism and turkey, you automatically flag yourself as a one-sided subjective popularist hater

13.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 12:46 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

if you find these racist then you should talk about them as well. when you open 549834593453 turkish-racist threads that do nothing but to degrade turkism and turkey, you automatically flag yourself as a one-sided subjective popularist hater

 

I do find our oat racist.

As long as you come and defend these racist crap, I will say that it is racist.

It is as racist as the oats german pupils chanted theirs to Hitler, as racist as oats chanted in Italy for Musollini.

This is 2013..not 1930s..

Racism has to go!! 

14.       alameda
3499 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 10:50 pm

Excuse me, but could you clarify just what you are talking about? I am thinking it is this: 

"Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım. Yasam, küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, budunumu özümden çok sevmektir. Ülküm, yükselmek, ileri gitmektir. Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.

English:

I am Turkish, honest and hardworking. My principle is to protect the younger to respect the elder, to love my homeland and my nation more than myself. My ideal is to rise, to progress. My existence shall be dedicated to the Turkish existence."

As a citizen of a country, IOW not stateless, you have an obligation to defend it. This is a basic requirment of citizenship of any country. 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Yes the oath WAS a racist oath from 1930s, inspired by fascist  dictators of Europe like Musollini and Hitler.

One of the many articles -in Turkish-

http://www.dunyabulteni.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=154599

 

 

 

 

si++ and burakk liked this message
15.       burakk
309 posts
 31 Oct 2013 Thu 11:00 pm

 

Quoting alameda

Excuse me, but could you clarify just what you are talking about? I am thinking it is this: 

"Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım. Yasam, küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, budunumu özümden çok sevmektir. Ülküm, yükselmek, ileri gitmektir. Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.

English:

I am Turkish, honest and hardworking. My principle is to protect the younger to respect the elder, to love my homeland and my nation more than myself. My ideal is to rise, to progress. My existence shall be dedicated to the Turkish existence."

As a citizen of a country, IOW not stateless, you have an obligation to defend it. This is a basic requirment of citizenship of any country. 

 

 

 

simple: pkk doesnt want people to say "im turkish". and our friend thehandsome is defending them under the guise of anti-racism. either he doesnt know what racism is or he thinks we are too stupid to know what it is.



Edited (10/31/2013) by burakk

16.       burakk
309 posts
 01 Nov 2013 Fri 12:26 am

there are two major psychological resistances you will meet with when invading a country: their religion and their nationalism. you cant for example occupy a Christian country with a Muslim government for too long, or vice versa, as we have seen in the example from the ottoman empire. or you cant occupy another nations country as an imperial nation yourself, as winston churchil has voiced 100 years ago. but it will be very easy to invade (even if youre not going to occupy it) a country that is divided into 500 religions and 500 countries, like austria-hungary empire, or like yugoslavia. this is why any psychological preliminary war against a country starts with eliminating these two ideologies. the countrys religion and their nationalism. as long as these two things are intact, there will be an unending resistance from the people of that nation.

 

we follow a history which has its milestone from ww1 with the paris peace conferance. just as the conferance had nothing to do with peace or with the rights of anyone and was all about ruining their enemies under the guise of "peace and democracy", today the "human rights and democracy" thats being forced onto the middle eastern countries have nothing to do with what its being disguised as.

 

for some reason none of the people who criticize and want to take "action" against turkeys whatever perspective about whatever minority fail to move a finger in removing racism or anything anti-democratic from their own countries. for some reason their idea about implementing human standarts into foreign countries go trough killing them by millions or subjecting them to heavy poverty trough embargos.

 

countries foreign policies dont change unless their governence style changes. turkeys foreign polcy changed when it became a republic from an empire. russias foreign policy changed when it stopped being a tzardom. chinas foreign policy changed when it became a communal republic. but the regimes in western countries havent changed. the old imperials are still kingdoms, presidencies are still presidencies and constitutional republics are still so.

 

england and americas unified foreign policy against syria never changed. they have been planning to ignite the minor factions in syria against a potential "dictator"-labeled ruler 50 years ago. their dream comes true now. a petrol flow without the need for a full scale war from arabia has been the dream of western countries for 150 years. they have achieved that dream 40 years ago. britian had planned to disassamble the iraqian collective government when they formed that collective government themselves. they have done that (very crudely and violently though) now. the imperialists were telling each other "if we promise a kingdom for each arabian king, they will fight amongst themselves and will be unable to give up the stable western aid" 100 years ago. that policy never changed.

 

we have seen in iraqthat the vietnam policy has never changed.

 

so the old imperialist games will never change as well. theyre still the same. theyre still whining about turkeys minorities and religious whatevers. this policy has nothing to do with humanity itself. its all about weakening turkey. its not a turkey special too, they do this everywhere. in pakistan, in tunisia, in turkmenistan etc. afhanistan, iraq, syria etc are the succesful projects. its not a western imperialist speciality also. russian and chinese foreign policies are similar as well.

 

so igniting a kurdish rebllion is only the continuation of the şeyh said rebellion in ww1. igniting a religious-freedom debate (if you havent forgotten the topic from 15 years ago) is the contuniation of the Christian seperationism from the ottoman empire from ww1 as well. divide and conquer, if not conquer just make them weak. this is the policy. so take my advice, dont fall for the democracy and humanity trap and take care of your own nation. remember that nobody asked iraqian children if they were Muslim or atheist when they killed them, or if they were shii or sunni when they raped the iraqian women. in vietnam the villages that were both occupied by the communists and the neutrals were burned down.

 

so the 100 year-old policy about slicing the ottoman empire into hundreds of small countries and thousands of political fractions that are gutting each other hasnt changed.

 

racism has to go yes. west has to stop igniting racism in foreign countries.

 

 

Source: changeschanging / Flickr

Source: changeschanging / Flickr

A B36 bus driver picking up passengers on Sheepshead Bay Road is in the cross-hairs for refusing to let a 10-year-old child board his bus and declaring him a “terrorist.” The New York Daily News is reporting that the family of the boy has brought a lawsuit against the city over the incident, which happened a year ago.

The Daily News relayed the details of the story as told by the boy’s lawyer:

The unidentified plaintiff was searching for his MetroCard as the B36 Bus pulled up on Sheepshead Bay Road last October, according to the suit, filed Friday in Brooklyn Federal Court.

He began reciting a Muslim prayer: “I stand in the name of God the most merciful, the most beneficent,” the suit states. The driver became alarmed, called the boy a “terrorist” and slammed the door shut, the boy’s lawyer, Hyder Naqvi, told the Daily News.

“The driver said ‘Get off!’ and used the T-word,” Naqvi said, referring to the word “terrorist.”

The lawyer said the boy was so hurt afterwards that he was didn’t want to use public transportation, but later he became angry and is resolved to right the wrong.

“He was two days shy of turning 11 when this happened, but he’s old enough to know what it feels like to be discriminated against,” Naqvi said.

According to the report, the parents had complained to the MTA but never received an answer. The boy, now 12, claims he can still identify the driver if asked.

hazzel liked this message
17.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 01 Nov 2013 Fri 02:32 am

One of my friends told me, he said the very first sentence of the oath, "I am Turkish, honest and hardworking." part to an american while working and waited to see what would his response be! The response was only one word: bullshit!

 

Anyway!

 

I am turkish and i am happy with that. But why should i dedicate my existence to turkish existence? Turkishness is an identity, why should anyone dedicate their own existence to an identity, i have never understand that. Do you die for your ID? Remember, what we were used to say: "My existence shall be dedicated to the Turkish existence."

Abla liked this message
18.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 01 Nov 2013 Fri 02:41 am

and imagine that you are going to school out of turkey. every morning at the school you are saying:

"My existence shall be dedicated to the German existence."

or

"My existence shall be dedicated to the French existence."

while you are in germany or france. and you are neither german, nor french.

 

the right question is not "why did we remove the oath?", the right question is "why were we that late, the year is 2013"

19.       si++
3785 posts
 01 Nov 2013 Fri 10:02 am

 

Quoting ikicihan

One of my friends told me, he said the very first sentence of the oath, "I am Turkish, honest and hardworking." part to an american while working and waited to see what would his response be! The response was only one word: bullshit!

So what? Who cares an American saying "it´s bullshit"? Tsk tsk tsk...

 

Anyway!

 

I am turkish and i am happy with that. But why should i dedicate my existence to turkish existence? Then why our grandfathers died before? During Dardanelles war or independence war? Why did they lost their lives? Turkishness is an identity, There would never be such identity now on these lands we still call Turchia, if they didn´t lose their lives for their country, isn´t it a dedication to Turkishness? why should anyone dedicate their own existence to an identity, i have never understand that. Do you die for your ID? Remember, what we were used to say: "My existence shall be dedicated to the Turkish existence." Anyway I think I understand you. If I´m not wrong your point is you don´t care about living under Turkish flag. Is that right?

 

Toprak eğer uğrunda ölen varsa vatandır...

20.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 01 Nov 2013 Fri 10:19 am

 

Quoting alameda

Excuse me, but could you clarify just what you are talking about? I am thinking it is this: 

"Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım. Yasam, küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, budunumu özümden çok sevmektir. Ülküm, yükselmek, ileri gitmektir. Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.

English:

I am Turkish, honest and hardworking. My principle is to protect the younger to respect the elder, to love my homeland and my nation more than myself. My ideal is to rise, to progress. My existence shall be dedicated to the Turkish existence."

As a citizen of a country, IOW not stateless, you have an obligation to defend it. This is a basic requirment of citizenship of any country. 

 

 

I think your translation is a watered down translation

It starts with ´I am a Turk´. There are people in Turkey and they dont call themselves Turks.

That is as simple as that. (think of German kids starting their school days with "I am a german", or English kids, "I am an English"(

The oat as it was itself a DIVIDING element in Turkey.

It was dividing people.

The basic requirement of a citizenship is being a good citizen not a racist citizen.

This oat was part of an engineering project of the people: Making them Turk and Sunni.

In Turkey there is an idiom ´deli gomlegi giymek/giydirmek´ which can be translated as ´putting on a straight jacket´. A straight jacket was put on people in Turkey  in 1920s/1930s. And it was forced not to take it off for many years. 

Although it is late but we are beginning to wake up.

 

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