Language |
|
|
|
All about Turkish and Uyghur:
|
1. |
23 May 2007 Wed 07:34 pm |
Dear all:
Apparently no one is interested in the ethymology of Turkic words. So I've started this thread, hoping we can compare the two dialects so that we can learn both from one another. I'll start with the simple words, and appreaciate the respective Turkiye Turkish contribution from the members.
Numbers: bir, ikki, üç, tört, beş, alte, yette, sekkiz, toqquz, on, yigirme, ottuz, qirq, ellik, atmiş, yetmiş, seksen, toqsen, yüz, ming, tümen (on ming), milliyon, milliyard, triliyon
Nouns: men, sen, u, biz, siler, ular
(polite form: siz, sili, özliri)
|
|
2. |
23 May 2007 Wed 08:10 pm |
I'm interested in it but I just don't know anything about it at all
|
|
3. |
23 May 2007 Wed 08:40 pm |
"tümen" that word took my attention.
In Turkey's Turkish it means 10.000 but, we don't use it for counting. Bir tümen asker. Means 10.000 soldier.
But one thing took my attention, in Korean "MAN" mean 10.000 which looks it may have a relationship with Turkic "tümen".
Just an idea. I don't know anything about it.
My question is how do you read this number ?
123456 -> In Turkey's Turkish we say;
yüz yirmi üç bin dört yüz elli altı.
Our counting system is : bir - on - yüz - bin - milyon
But in China, Korea and most possibly in Japan and maybe some other Far-Eastern countries they have 10.000 as a step in their counting systems.
They count : bir - on - yüz - bin - onbin(tümen) - milyar
As you see the steps are different.
So this number(123456) is read as(using Turkic words);
oniki tümen üç bin dört yüz elli altı in Korean and Chinese.
Milyon is yüz tümen.
So many foreigners confuse reading numbers in Chinese and Korean in the beginning.
How do you read numbers in Uyghur ?
Chinese way or Turkish way ?
Turkish spelling of your words:
Numbers: bir(bir ), ikki(iki ), üç(üç ), tört(dört ), beş(beş ), alte(altı ), yette(yedi ), sekkiz(sekiz ), toqquz(dokuz ), on(on ), yigirme(yirmi ), ottuz(otuz ), qirq(kırk ), ellik(elli ), atmiş(Altmış ), yetmiş(Yetmiş ), seksen(Seksen ), toqsen(doksan ), yüz(yüz ), ming(bin ), tümen (on ming) (only onbin ), milliyon(milyon ), milliyard(milyar ), triliyon(trilyon )
Nouns: men(ben ), sen(sen ), u(o ), biz(biz ), siler(siz ), ular(onlar )
|
|
4. |
24 May 2007 Thu 07:19 pm |
Teshekkür ederim! (Köp teshekkür)
Quoting SunFlowerSeed: "tümen" that word took my attention.
In Turkey's Turkish it means 10.000 but, we don't use it for counting. Bir tümen asker. Means 10.000 soldier.
|
It is also an additional counter in Uyghur.
Quote:
But one thing took my attention, in Korean "MAN" mean 10.000 which looks it may have a relationship with Turkic "tümen".
Just an idea. I don't know anything about it.
|
Might be traced back to military sytem of the Huns.
Quote:
My question is how do you read this number ?
123456 -> In Turkey's Turkish we say;
yüz yirmi üç bin dört yüz elli altı.
|
In uyghur: bir yüz yigirme üç ming tört yüz ellik alte
Quote:
Our counting system is : bir - on - yüz - bin - milyon
|
Same as Uyghur.
Quote:
But in China, Korea and most possibly in Japan and maybe some other Far-Eastern countries they have 10.000 as a step in their counting systems.
They count : bir - on - yüz - bin - onbin(tümen) - milyar
As you see the steps are different.
So this number(123456) is read as(using Turkic words);
oniki tümen üç bin dört yüz elli altı in Korean and Chinese.
Milyon is yüz tümen.
So many foreigners confuse reading numbers in Chinese and Korean in the beginning.
How do you read numbers in Uyghur ?
Chinese way or Turkish way ?
|
tümen is used only for convenience when people are bothered to say 10,000 etc full numbers. Basically, we use Turkish system.
Quote:
Turkish spelling of your words:
Numbers: bir(bir ), ikki(iki ), üç(üç ), tört(dört ), beş(beş ), alte(altı ), yette(yedi ), sekkiz(sekiz ), toqquz(dokuz ), on(on ), yigirme(yirmi ), ottuz(otuz ), qirq(kırk ), ellik(elli ), atmiş(Altmış ), yetmiş(Yetmiş ), seksen(Seksen ), toqsen(doksan ), yüz(yüz ), ming(bin ), tümen (on ming) (only onbin ), milliyon(milyon ), milliyard(milyar ), triliyon(trilyon )
Nouns: men(ben ), sen(sen ), u(o ), biz(biz ), siler(siz ), ular(onlar )
|
Great, thanks again. I'd keep this in my note.
Here are some other words in Uyghur:
Colours (rengler): aq(white), qara (black), qizil (red), yeşil(green), kök (blue), seriq (yellow), sösün (light purple), binepşe (dark purple)
Kül reng (gray), hawa reng (light blue), beghir reng (dark brown), etc.
Degrees of the colours: Aç or sus (light), toq or qeniq (dark)
Family members: dada or ata (father), ana or apa (mother), bowa (grand father), moma (grand mother), tagha (uncle), hamma (aunt), aka or agha (elder brother), aça or hede (elder sister), uka or ini (younger brother), singil (younger sister), jiyen qiz (niece), jiyen oghul (nephew), newre (grand child), çewre (great grand child), ewre (great.... child), peynewre (great ....child), kökül newre (great .....)
Qeyin ana (mother in law), ......
kelin (daughter in law)
küyoghul (son in law)
Quda (parants of wife and husband, how they call each other)
Yenge and yezne ( different from qeyin aça and qeyin aka)
|
|
5. |
24 May 2007 Thu 08:47 pm |
sorry for double posting by mistake.
|
|
6. |
24 May 2007 Thu 08:50 pm |
Hi again Korshad,
Here are some other words in Uyghur:
Colours (rengler): aq(white)||beyaz or ak||, qara (black)||siyah or kara||, qizil (red)||kırmızı or kızıl||, yeşil(green)||yeşil||, kök (blue)||mavi(possibly arabic)||, seriq (yellow)||sarı||, sösün (light purple)||eflatun (?)||, binepşe (dark purple)||mor||
Kül reng (gray)||gri or külrengi||, hawa reng (light blue)||açık mavi||, beghir reng (dark brown)||kahverengi|| ||may beghir be bakır(copper) here ?||, etc.
Degrees of the colours: Aç or sus (light)||açık||, toq or qeniq (dark)||koyu||
Family members: dada or ata (father)||baba (possibly Chinese||), ana or apa (mother)||anne or ana||, bowa (grand father)||dede(possibly chinese)||, moma (grand mother)||nene (poss.chinese)||, tagha (uncle)||amca||, hamma (aunt)||hala||, aka or agha (elder brother)||ağabey or abi or birader||, aça or hede (elder sister)||abla||, uka or ini (younger brother)||erkek kardeş||, singil (younger sister)||kız kardeş||, jiyen qiz (niece)||kız yeğen||, jiyen oghul (nephew)||erkek yeğen||, newre (grand child)||torun||, çewre (great grand child)||---||, ewre (great.... child)||--||, peynewre (great ....child)||--||, kökül newre (great .....)||--||
Qeyin ana (mother in law), ......||kayın ana or kaynana||
kelin (daughter in law) ||gelin (wife of son)||
küyoghul (son in law)||damat(husband of daughter)||
Quda (parants of wife and husband, how they call each other)
Yenge and yezne ( different from qeyin aça and qeyin aka) ||Yenge (brother's wife)||
addition:
Kayın baba (father in law)
Kayın birader (brother of your sister/brother's husband)
Görümce (Wives of both brother call each other like this)
Teyze (Mother's sister)
Dayı (Mother's brother)
Actually, there are many words for family relationships. You may hear different words in different areas in Turkey
|
|
7. |
24 May 2007 Thu 08:50 pm |
Quoting korshad:
Here are some other words in Uyghur:
Colours (rengler): aq(white), qara (black), qizil (red), yeşil(green), kök (blue), seriq (yellow), sösün (light purple), binepşe (dark purple)
Kül reng (gray), hawa reng (light blue), beghir reng (dark brown), etc.
Degrees of the colours: Aç or sus (light), toq or qeniq (dark)
Family members: dada or ata (father), ana or apa (mother), bowa (grand father), moma (grand mother), tagha (uncle), hamma (aunt), aka or agha (elder brother), aça or hede (elder sister), uka or ini (younger brother), singil (younger sister), jiyen qiz (niece), jiyen oghul (nephew), newre (grand child), çewre (great grand child), ewre (great.... child), peynewre (great ....child), kökül newre (great .....)
Qeyin ana (mother in law), ......
kelin (daughter in law)
küyoghul (son in law)
Quda (parants of wife and husband, how they call each other)
Yenge and yezne ( different from qeyin aça and qeyin aka)
|
Selam korshad
Here are equivalents in Türkiye's Turkish:
Colours(renkler):ak or beyaz(white), kara or siyah(black), kızıl or kırmızı(red), yeşil(green), mavi(blue), sarı(yellow), açık mor(light purple), koyu mor(dark purple),kül rengi or gri (gray), kahverengi(dark brown)
Degrees of the colurs: açık(light), koyu(dark) we use “aç†for “hungry-greedy†and “tok†for “full-satisfiedâ€
Family members: baba(father), ana or anne (mother), büyükbaba(grandfather(father’s father)), büyükanne or nine (grandmother(father’s mother)), dede(mother’s father), anana or anneanne(mother’s mother), amca(uncle(father’s brother)), dayı(uncle(mother’s brother)), teyze(mother’s sister), hala(father’s sister), agabey or abi(elder brother), abla(elder sister), küçük kardeş(younger brother or sister), kuzen or kız yeğen(niece), erkek yeğen or yeğen(nephew), torun(grand child, great grand child etc)
Kayın ana or Kaynana(mother in law)
Gelin (daughter in law)
Damat(son in law)
Yenge(uncle’s wife or mother’s brother’s wife)
Look at this very interesting;
ana->anaana->nana->nene(nine)->mama->moma and is also used and in english "mum" is also used for mother...
ata->ataata->atata->tata->dada->dede and in english “dad†is used also for father…interesting?
|
|
8. |
24 May 2007 Thu 09:10 pm |
Thanks for your post Armegon.
Quote: Look at this very interesting;
ana->anaana->nana->nene(nine)->mama->moma and is also used and in english "mum" is also used for mother...
ata->ataata->atata->tata->dada->dede and in english “dad†is used also for father…interesting? |
That took my attention.
Ana and Ata. I have never thought in such way. That may be right.
Sometime ago, I visited a friend of mine who is studying Chinese. Her book was on the table and I couldn't stop myself having a peek at it.
I saw those words. Nei-Nei (Nene-Nine) and Dei-Dei(dede).
That's why I've said 'possibly chinese' in my post above.
Edit: In İstanbul Turkish(as far as I know, correct me if I am wrong) "mama" means "the food for baby". :9
Ba (baba) in Chinese.
Ma (anne) in Chinese.
Why didn't we take Ma(mama), although we took Ba(baba) from Chinese ?
My opinion: Since Ma is one of the easiest sounds that a baby can produce, most countries got it as "mother" while we got it "baby food".
|
|
9. |
24 May 2007 Thu 09:43 pm |
Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Thanks for your post Armegon.
That took my attention.
Ana and Ata. I have never thought in such way. That may be right.
Sometime ago, I visited a friend of mine who is studying Chinese. Her book was on the table and I couldn't stop myself having a peek at it.
I saw those words. Nei-Nei (Nene-Nine) and Dei-Dei(dede).
That's why I've said 'possibly chinese' in my post above.
Edit: In İstanbul Turkish(as far as I know, correct me if I am wrong) 'mama' means 'the food for baby'. :9
Ba (baba) in Chinese.
Ma (anne) in Chinese.
Why didn't we take Ma(mama), although we took Ba(baba) from Chinese ?
My opinion: Since Ma is one of the easiest sounds that a baby can produce, most countries got it as 'mother' while we got it 'baby food'.  |
Selam SFS
I do not think we took that words from Chinese.“ana†and “ata†are pure Turkish words and i think “baba†was also derived from these words by time passed, you know Turkish is essentially a monosyllabic language in which mono syllables are the root words and suffixes. It is an agglutinative language in which many words are derived by adding many suffixes to the root word (almost with mathematical regularity). And mama/meme means in old Turkish( same as today ) “mother’s breast†so also “mama†in turkish means baby food, it is derived from “mother’s breastâ€.
|
|
10. |
24 May 2007 Thu 10:08 pm |
Quoting armegon: Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Thanks for your post Armegon.
That took my attention.
Ana and Ata. I have never thought in such way. That may be right.
Sometime ago, I visited a friend of mine who is studying Chinese. Her book was on the table and I couldn't stop myself having a peek at it.
I saw those words. Nei-Nei (Nene-Nine) and Dei-Dei(dede).
That's why I've said 'possibly chinese' in my post above.
Edit: In İstanbul Turkish(as far as I know, correct me if I am wrong) 'mama' means 'the food for baby'. :9
Ba (baba) in Chinese.
Ma (anne) in Chinese.
Why didn't we take Ma(mama), although we took Ba(baba) from Chinese ?
My opinion: Since Ma is one of the easiest sounds that a baby can produce, most countries got it as 'mother' while we got it 'baby food'.  |
Selam SFS
I do not think we took that words from Chinese.“ana†and “ata†are pure Turkish words and i think “baba†was also derived from these words by time passed, you know Turkish is essentially a monosyllabic language in which mono syllables are the root words and suffixes. It is an agglutinative language in which many words are derived by adding many suffixes to the root word (almost with mathematical regularity). And mama/meme means in old Turkish( same as today ) “mother’s breast†so also “mama†in turkish means baby food, it is derived from “mother’s breastâ€. |
Thanks for your explanation and I agree about the morphology of Turkish words. I mean monosyllability.
Since I live in Korea for a long time and studying it, I started to relate every word to a Chinese origin.
Actually, "Chinese origin" may be wrong since we had a long history with Chinese people and because Chinese is also a monosyllabic language, it is hard to say who gave what to whom.
|
|
|