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All about Turkish and Uyghur:
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10. |
24 May 2007 Thu 10:08 pm |
Quoting armegon: Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Thanks for your post Armegon.
That took my attention.
Ana and Ata. I have never thought in such way. That may be right.
Sometime ago, I visited a friend of mine who is studying Chinese. Her book was on the table and I couldn't stop myself having a peek at it.
I saw those words. Nei-Nei (Nene-Nine) and Dei-Dei(dede).
That's why I've said 'possibly chinese' in my post above.
Edit: In İstanbul Turkish(as far as I know, correct me if I am wrong) 'mama' means 'the food for baby'. :9
Ba (baba) in Chinese.
Ma (anne) in Chinese.
Why didn't we take Ma(mama), although we took Ba(baba) from Chinese ?
My opinion: Since Ma is one of the easiest sounds that a baby can produce, most countries got it as 'mother' while we got it 'baby food'.  |
Selam SFS
I do not think we took that words from Chinese.“ana†and “ata†are pure Turkish words and i think “baba†was also derived from these words by time passed, you know Turkish is essentially a monosyllabic language in which mono syllables are the root words and suffixes. It is an agglutinative language in which many words are derived by adding many suffixes to the root word (almost with mathematical regularity). And mama/meme means in old Turkish( same as today ) “mother’s breast†so also “mama†in turkish means baby food, it is derived from “mother’s breastâ€. |
Thanks for your explanation and I agree about the morphology of Turkish words. I mean monosyllability.
Since I live in Korea for a long time and studying it, I started to relate every word to a Chinese origin.
Actually, "Chinese origin" may be wrong since we had a long history with Chinese people and because Chinese is also a monosyllabic language, it is hard to say who gave what to whom.
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11. |
24 May 2007 Thu 11:40 pm |
Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Since I live in Korea for a long time and studying it, I started to relate every word to a Chinese origin.
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I think you should also think and relate the reverse about the origin a little
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12. |
25 May 2007 Fri 11:57 am |
Right !
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13. |
25 May 2007 Fri 02:35 pm |
I appreaciate a lot for your contributions Sunseedflower and armegon. Hope we can continue this very constructive exchange.
Some notes:
Beghir or jiger is liver in Uyghur. Copper is mis.
Northern Chinese has a lot of loan words from the Altaic neighbours due to the many historical rulings by those of the groups. In mordern chinese there are also many load words from other languages. for example: bai bai (Bye bye), motuo che (motocyle) etc. Chinese words for father and mother actually is Die and Niang. (and their different forms). These terms can rarely be loan words as they are very basic words. The similarity between different languages only because these sounds are easy to be pronounced by babies. Surely we can discuss the ethymology of the words in my older thread.
Now back to the topic, here come more Uyghur words:
adjectives:
small: kiçik, ushshaq,..
big: çong, yoghan, büyük ...
light: yenik, yengil
heavy: eghir
short(height): pakar
tall: egiz
short (legnth): kalte , qisqa
long: uzun
ugly: set, körümsiz
beautiful: güzel, körkem, çirayliq, uz ..
soft: yumşaq, boş
hard: qattiq, çing
right: toghra, berheq
wrong: hata
young: yaş
old: qeri, yaşanghan ...
new: yengi
old: kona, eski-tuski
good: yahşi, belen, obdan ...
bad: naçar, yaman,...
thin: inçike
thick: tom
hungry: aç
full: toq
hot: issiq
cold: soghuq
neat: retlik
messy: qalaymiqan, retsiz
slow: asta
fast: tiz
thin: oruq
fat: semiz
Many of these adjectives have several synonyms. I can't remember at once. listed are more commonly used ones.
that's for today. (bügünçe muşunçilik yazay)
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14. |
25 May 2007 Fri 03:32 pm |
Quoting korshad:
Beghir or jiger is liver in Uyghur. (Ciğer)
Copper is mis. (Bakır)
adjectives:
small: kiçik (küçük), ushshaq,.. (uşak:only for kids)
big: çong (maybe çok(a lot) ), yoghan (maybe yoğun(dense) ), büyük (büyük) ...
light: yenik (Sounds very Turkish, I can understand in some cases that it is used to say light, same word is used in Turkish to express "something that has lost some of its body" ), yengil (hafif/possb.Arabic)
heavy: eghir (Ağır)
short(height): pakar (kısa) Looks familiar though, there maybe a similar word in other regions in Turkey.
tall: egiz (uzun)
short (legnth): kalte , qisqa (kısa)
long: uzun (uzun)
ugly: set, körümsiz (çirkin)
beautiful: güzel, körkem, çirayliq, uz ..(güzel, maybe görkemli)
soft: yumşaq, boş (yumuşak)
hard: qattiq, çing (katı, sert)
right: toghra, berheq (doğru)
wrong: hata (hata, yanlış )
young: yaş (genç, sometimes yaş ) yaş:age
old: qeri, yaşanghan ... (yaşlı )
new: yengi (yeni)
old: kona, eski-tuski (eski, geri in some cases, eski-püskü)
good: yahşi, belen, obdan ...iyi (I don't know why this is different from all Turkic countries in Asia, similar sound in Japanese)
bad: naçar, yaman,...(kötü, yaman can be used in very rare cases)
thin: inçike (ince)
thick: tom (kalın)
hungry: aç (aç )
full: toq (tok)
hot: issiq (sıcak)
cold: soghuq (soğuk)
neat: retlik (temiz, düzgün, derli toplu)
messy: qalaymiqan, retsiz (pis, dağınık)
slow: asta (yavaş )
fast: tiz (hızlı )
thin: oruq (zayıf)
fat: semiz (şişman, semiz is also possible)
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15. |
25 May 2007 Fri 06:03 pm |
Addition to SFS
small:küçük or ufak
fast:hızlı or tez or çabuk
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16. |
25 May 2007 Fri 08:17 pm |
I made mistake, Fast is not tiz, instead tez in Uyghur.another word: ittik.
Küçük in uyghur is puppy (baby dog).
thin (line) is inçike, while thin (bulk, such as soup) is suyuq.
thick (line) is tom, while thick (dense)is qoyuq.
thin (layer)is nipiz, thick (layer) is qelin. You can say "yüzi qelin" meaning not shy.
kötü reminds me qotur in Uyghur which is used for coarse. flat is siliq.
Yavaş in Uyghur is kind of timid. Yaman is also bold.
awaq and Injimaruq are the higher degrees of oruq in Uyghur.
Pakar is used for the hight of a person, while pes is used for the objects.
Here are more I can think of:
wide: keng
narrow: tar
far: yiraq
near: yeqin
bold: yureklik, qorqmas
timid: qorqunchaq
straight: tüz
not straight: maymaq, egri-bugri
happy: hoşal, köngüllük
unhappy: hapa, qayghuluq
sound(health): saq, temen, saghlam
ill: aghriq, kesel, nimjan
mad: sarang
not mad: ong
right(direction): ong
left: sol
open: oçuq
closed: yepiq
clear: oçuq, eniq
not clear: tutuq, sus
bright: yoruq
dark: qarangghu
hardworking: işÃ§an, tirişÃ§an
lazy: horun, teyyartap
busy: aldiraş
not busy: bikar, boş
dry: quruq, qurghaq
wet: nem, suluq
more: köp, jiq
less: az, sanaqliq
Looking forward to your reply. (jawabingizgha teshnamen.)
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17. |
27 May 2007 Sun 07:08 am |
Quoting korshad: I made mistake, Fast is not tiz, instead tez in Uyghur.another word: ittik.
Küçük in uyghur is puppy (baby dog). --> Hmmm, Turkish people should be careful not to use this word in Uyghur territory then. Because we also use it for people. Küçük çocuk.
thin (line) is inçike ince, while thin (bulk, such as soup) is suyuq. açık for drinks, sulu for soup
thick (line) is tom kalın, while thick (dense)is qoyuq.koyu, demli for çay, yoğun, kıvamlı maybe for soups
-->Here, dem sounds similar to tom but we use it only for çay
thin (layer)is nipiz ince, thick (layer) is qelin kalın. You can say "yüzi qelin" meaning not shy. we say 'ensesi kalın' for powerful, rich people
kötü reminds me qotur in Uyghur which is used for coarse. flat is siliq düz. --> Another word for kötü is fena, and maybe feci(possb.Arab.).
Yavaş in Uyghur is kind of timid. Yaman is also bold. (Same as Turkish)
-->Talihi pek yamanmış. (bad luck)
-->Yaman bir insan. (Bold, fearless)
awaq and Injimaruq are the higher degrees of oruq in Uyghur.
--> We use ap-, ip-, bem-, sim- and similar prefixes in Tukiye's Turkish for the highest degree.
--->apak -- bembeyaz (whitest)
--->kapkara -- simsiyah (blackest)
--->ipince (thinnest) ------ kapkalın (thickest)
---->I think you understood how we do that.
Pakar is used for the hight of a person, while pes is used for the objects. boy for everything, yükseklik is possible for objects only
Here are more I can think of:
wide: keng geniş
narrow: tar dar
far: yiraq uzak, ırak
near: yeqin yakın
bold: yureklik, qorqmas yürekli, korkmaz, korkusuz, cesur, yaman
timid: qorqunchaq korkak, ürkek, çekingen
straight: tüz düz, doğru
not straight: maymaq, egri-bugri yamuk, eğri-büğrü
happy: hoşal, köngüllük mutlu, sevinçli, hoş
unhappy: hapa, qayghuluq mutsuz, kaygılı but slightly different in meaning
sound(health): saq, temen, saghlam sağ, sağlam, salim, sağsalim
ill: aghriq, kesel, nimjan hasta, ağrılı -> hasta with pain
mad: sarang deli, çılgın
-->sarang in Korean is LOVE.
not mad: ong akıllı, uslu
right(direction): ong sağ
left: sol sol
open: oçuq açık
closed: yepiq kapalı
clear: oçuq, eniq açık, berrak, duru, temiz
not clear: tutuq, sus kirli, pis, kapalı in some cases
bright: yoruq parlak
dark: qarangghu karanlık
hardworking: işÃ§an, tirişÃ§an işcan, çalışkan
lazy: horun, teyyartap tembel
busy: aldiraş meşgul (poss.Arab.)
not busy: bikar, boş boş
dry: quruq, qurghaq kuru
wet: nem, suluq yaş, ıslak, sulu maybe in some cases
more: köp, jiq çok, pek
less: az, sanaqliq az, yetersiz
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I maybe skipped some words. Welcome for additions and corrections.
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18. |
27 May 2007 Sun 07:29 am |
I love this topic
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19. |
27 May 2007 Sun 08:18 am |
--OFF TOPIC--
I have just finished an article about Turkish-Korean similar words. 9-page pdf file in Turkish. It gives some information about how the words are changed in shape and transferred to other languages.
A small quote from the study in Turkish. Author is a Korean.
I may translate it to English when I have time.
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Korece ile Türkçe arasında 180’e yakın yeni ortak
kelime ve 90’a yakın ortak ek bulunmuştur. Üstelik bu ortak unsurların çoğu yalnız Türkçe ile Korece arasında değil, Moğolca ve Mançu-Tunguzca gibi diğer Altay dillerinde de mevcuttur. Ortak kelimeler bir yana bırakılırsa, çalışmalarımdan elde ettiğim ortak unsurlar şunlardır: İsim yapma ekleri 37, fiil yapma ekleri 14, hal ekleri 9, zamirler 8, sıfat fiiller 5, zarf fiiller 12, çoğul ekleri 2. (Choi 1989).
Here is the translation:
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Around 180 new words and around 90 suffix/prefixes between Korean and Turkish have been discovered. Furthermore, most of those elements are not common only between Kor. and Turk., they also exist in other Altaic languages such as Mongolian and Manchu-Tungus. Excepting common words, result of my research is as follows: Noun building suffixes 37, verb building suffixes 14, situation suffixes 9, pronouns 8, adjective-verbs 5, adverb-verbs 12, plural suffixes 2.
Some examples from the study: (In Turkish )
*Ko. ori “ördekâ€: Orta Korecede orh ve orhi olarak iki şekli vardır. Eski Uygurcada ördek “ördek†kelimesi vardır
*Ko. turumi “turnaâ€: Eski Türkçede turunya, Orta Türkçede turna şeklindedir. Azerice ve Türkmencede ise durna şeklindedir.Yakutçada bu kelime turuya şeklindedir. Japonca tarafından da turu şeklinde ödünçlenmiştir.
*Ko. bora “kar fırtınasıâ€: Korecede bu kelime yalnız nunbora “kar fırtına†(nun “karâ€) kelimesinde bulunmaktadır.
*Ko. cokha “yeğenâ€: Orhon Türkçesinde çıqan şeklinde bulunmaktadır.
*Ko. toksuri “doğanâ€: surimae (<*suri + mae “doğanâ€) ve surisae (< suri + sae “kuşâ€). Korece tok kelimesi Türkçe “doğan†anlamındaki toğan (<*tok+kan) kelimesinde yaşamaktadır.
*Ko. tark “tavukâ€: Bu Eski Uygurca ve Orta Türkçe takığu “evcil kuşâ€ ile aynıdır.
* Ko. kut “(şamanizmde) kutluluk dilemek için yapılan dini merasimâ€: Altay dillerinde yaygın bir şekilde kullanılmaktadır. Eski Türkçede “devlet, saadet, kutlama†anlamında kut vardır.
*Ko. tori “kahramanâ€: Moğolistan’ın başkenti Ulan Bator’un adında geçmektedir. Burada ulan bir sıfat olup “kırmızı†anlamına gelir; bator ise Türkçe bagator ile aynıdır.
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20. |
27 May 2007 Sun 02:31 pm |
Quoting SunFlowerSeed: Hmmm, Turkish people should be careful not to use this word in Uyghur territory then. Because we also use it for people. Küçük çocuk.
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Actually çocuk is more embarressing. In Uyghur bala is used instead.
Quote:
awaq and Injimaruq are the higher degrees of oruq in Uyghur.
--> We use ap-, ip-, bem-, sim- and similar prefixes in Tukiye's Turkish for the highest degree.
--->apak -- bembeyaz (whitest)
--->kapkara -- simsiyah (blackest)
--->ipince (thinnest) ------ kapkalın (thickest)
---->I think you understood how we do that.
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Same as Uyghur:
Appaq, qapqara, qipqizil, yapyeşil, köpkök
çopçong (not used for all the adj though.)
Uzaq is also used in Uyghur, but mostly refering to the time. (Bizning körüşmiginimizge uzaq (uzun) boldi.) while Yiraq is for distance: yol yiraq.
Jesur is also used, batur is another word.
Mutlu doesn't ring any bell to me. We also use qutluq for happy.
For mad, telve and delte are also used, with slight differences in meanings.
Palaq is also used in Uyghur.
Some more commonly used adj:
Deep: çongqur
shallaw: teyiz
clean: pakiz, taza
dirty: meynet, qasmaq
strong: küçlük
weak: ajiz, zeyip
spicy (hot): aççiq
sweet: tatliq
tasty: temlik
not tasty: temsiz
sweet (smell): mezilik, puraqliq
bad (smell): sesiq
Now nouns:
Body parts:
çaç (hair), baş (head), pişane (forhead), qaş (eyebrow), qapaq (eyelips), kirpik (eye lash), köz (eye), burun (nose), qulaq (ear), eghiz (mouse), çiş (tooth), til (tounge), kalpuk or lew (lips), burut (moustach), ingek (chin), zangaq (jaw), saqal (beard), boyun (neck), gejde or pattang (back of neck), gal (throat), müre (shoulder), belek (arm), jeynek (back connecter of two arms), beghiş (connecting part of hand and arm), qol (hand), alqan (palm), barmaq (finger), üge (connecter of the fingers), tirnaq (nail), kökrek (upper chest), meyde (lower chest), emçek or memeq(breast), qorsaq (belly), kindik (center of belly?), dömbe (back), bel(wraist), saghra or kasa or qong or köt (buttock), yota (upper leg), tiz (knee), paçaq (lower leg), put (foot), tapan (heel)
menge(brain), öpke (lung), yürek (heart), jiger or beghir (liver), börek (kidney), tal (spleen), üçey (intestine), ashqazan (stumoch), yutqunçaq (path for food?), tomur ( vein), tere (skin), göş or et (meat), söngek or ustihan (bone)
Qan (blood),şÃ¶lgey (sliver), ter (sweat), süydük (urine), poq (shit), yaş (tear), mangqa (nose fluid), yiring (the fluid one extracts when when there is bruise)
sorry for my english. I might have missed some. please add the English one or Turkish one, I'll add the Uyghur one.
Have a nice day!
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