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Muslim Athlete Disqualified Over Uniform
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| 100. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:52 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: I have seen it all now!! My UK bank offers the following bank account for muslims!!! I wonder if I can get a Christian Bank Account in Saudi? An Agnostic one in Iran? 
Of course no! I am a second class citizen in THEIR countries with fewer rights and no respect.
http://www.lloydstsb.com/current_accounts/islamic_account.asp
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Wow, and did you see the children's fund.. The only Child Trust Fund account that respects Islamic law. Who sits on the Board of Directors at your Bank?  Come on, don't you want to donate your extra pounds to this Trust Fund...  Just think of all the children you can help.. 
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| 101. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 09:59 pm |
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Quoting alameda: Dear AEnigma, I know it is confusing. Unfortunately often spiritual paths become entwined with power structures.
In Christianity this was seen almost the instant it became the official church of Constantine. The burning of heretics rapidly ensued, later with the rise of the Roman Catholic church, we see Roman Catholic inquisitions, then there were the Protestant/Catholic wars, the Orthodox/Catholic split and on and on. These are but a few examples....I'm sure I need not list more?
Do you think the fact that whole Native American peoples were wiped out was due to the teachings of Christ?
Those who truly seek to follow a spiritual path are, it seems, in the minority. Throughout history the attempt at hijacking religions has been done.
In the Islamic world is not immune. As I said in my previous message, the rise of radical Islam coincides with the rise in oil wealth in the country that is home of radical Islam. Much of that money was used to fund radical mosques, provide them with teaching materials.
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Dear Alameda
As you know I feel the same about ALL religions, so quoting Christian wrong-doing is wasted on me. You have no need to give me a brief history lesson on theology or Christian history - it is a pet subject of mine
The fact is, in PRESENT DAY I am not personally affected by Christians telling me I am a second class citizen because I am not Christian, that my country should become a Christian State or that Christian Terrorists are better people than muslims. I also do not receive death threats if I make a cartoon of Jesus or publically denounce Christians (thank goodness - or the Monty Python crew would have been immediately hanged for "The Life of Brian!!!"
The more I learn about religion, the more I realise what a man-made concept it is.
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| 102. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:02 pm |
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Quoting alameda: Dear AEnigma, I know it is confusing. Unfortunately often spiritual paths become entwined with power structures.
In Christianity this was seen almost the instant it became the official church of Constantine. The burning of heretics rapidly ensued, later with the rise of the Roman Catholic church, we see Roman Catholic inquisitions, then there were the Protestant/Catholic wars, the Orthodox/Catholic split and on and on. These are but a few examples....I'm sure I need not list more?
Do you think the fact that whole Native American peoples were wiped out was due to the teachings of Christ?
Those who truly seek to follow a spiritual path are, it seems, in the minority. Throughout history the attempt at hijacking religions has been done.
In the Islamic world is not immune. As I said in my previous message, the rise of radical Islam coincides with the rise in oil wealth in the country that is home of radical Islam. Much of that money was used to fund radical mosques, provide them with teaching materials.
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So you're basically not getting it alameda. Oh well, didn't expect you to anyway.   
People like you is exactly what's so evil about islam. They take NO RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 103. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:05 pm |
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Quote: or the Monty Python crew would have been immediately hanged for "The Life of Brian!!!"
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Can we agree not to joke about this? The thought of anyone hanging John Cleese is making me cry!!  Just because your standard of living is higher than mine doesn't mean you can joke about this...its not funny....isn't there a rule against this? I didn't expect the Spanish Inquistion!
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| 104. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:05 pm |
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Quoting alameda: Those who truly seek to follow a spiritual path are, it seems, in the minority. Throughout history the attempt at hijacking religions has been done. |
This I do agree with!! Except...."hijacking" religion (which, if we are honest, are mostly based on the word of a single man, and whether or not we believe in his story that he spoke to God/Allah) is open to debate, as ALL these divisions will tell you convincingly that THEY are the TRUE followers and THEIR version of their religion is the true one.
As religion is geographical and mostly dependent on what you were taught from your parents and culture, then your concept of faith is determined not by truth, Allah, God, or knowledge - but merely by the accident of birth!!!!!
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| 105. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 10:56 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting SERA_2005: I can assure you it is only ignorant people that do not wish to understand the big picture and see the beauty in Islam that use such insulting language towards it. |
My definition of "extreme" did not mean terrorists Sera. You are very naive if you think that Turkish muslims are anything like muslims in Islamic states.
Did you watch the BBC Dispatches video of what our biggest mosque in Birmingham preach? Are you really so naive STILL? Frankly, if I am deleted for discussing such a thing, I really don't give a damn!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dEDVSLIkd5w |
I don't move in your TC circle but as far as I know nobody wants to see you deleted, self included. Having said that I asked the moderators to lock this thread because of the youtube link you posted. I think I'm right in saying that the Despatches programme is a CH4 production and not that of the BBC. Also, you only gave one side of the coin. I am not commenting on the protagonists' views,merely showing how editing MIGHT skew facts. This happens a great deal in the media (print and screen). Sadly, we cannot believe everything we hear or read. Queen Elizabeth II was recently a victim of programme editing and I think the complaint was upheld. In order to provide some balance, this is an article from The Guardian about the Dispatches programme:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/aug/08/broadcasting.race
and one from The Times:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article2224728.ece
Guardian Article : Evidence of Extremism in Mosques "Fabricated"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2226704,00.html
There is so much media coverage about Islam, the arguments on this site could go on ad infinitum. If we care to follow site rules, people won't get so hot under the collar and end up posting inflammatory material.
So, I don't think you'll be deleted and if so . . . well it's easy to get back and look on the bright side, you'll be able to change your user name eg.
"ME . . . again!!!".
Oooooooooooops , I posted material too. Hmmm . . . just in case I thought of an anagram for myself too, but there was a rude word in it so I better not post here 
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| 106. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 11:04 pm |
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Dear Peace Train, thanks for bringing my attention to the youtube link Aenigma posted, since I haven't checked it out earlier. Anyways, my comment is - you have your argument and other people have theirs, I don't see any reason to trust your sources any more than Aenigma's. In any case, nobody's opinions are shaped by reading one article or by watching one video, I think there's plenty of real life examples for people to see what's going on.
However, you're right that this is not the right place for this sort of debates, so I'm done here.
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| 107. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 11:21 pm |
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Dearest Peacetrain,
Thank you so much for revealing the untruths in the video I posted. Apparently they were all actors and the speaker was held at gun-point to utter those words. (I hear the crowd scenes are up for an OSCAR ). It was not filmed in the largest mosque in Birmingham at all, but at Universal Studies!
People who complain of "bad editing" are ones with something to hide. You can "edit" some speakers all you like and find nothing which says words like the speaker in this video.
Thank you for your application to have this thread locked. Erdem needs vigilant members like yourself to assist him in eradicating any violation of Turkishness.
AEnigma xxxxx
(Is Channel 4 considered lesser? As far as I am aware they are subject to the same broadcasting laws as the BBC - and have won many awards for their programming)
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| 108. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 11:27 pm |
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Is Peace Train advocating the banning of YouTube as well, so we do not have to see such things?
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| 109. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 11:37 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Dear Peace Train, thanks for bringing my attention to the youtube link Aenigma posted, since I haven't checked it out earlier. Anyways, my comment is - you have your argument and other people have theirs, I don't see any reason to trust your sources any more than Aenigma's. In any case, nobody's opinions are shaped by reading one article or by watching one video, I think there's plenty of real life examples for people to see what's going on.
However, you're right that this is not the right place for this sort of debates, so I'm done here. |
Dear Catwoman
Thank you for your fair comment.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear (I edited a few times). I think I pointed out that I wasn't arguing or giving a view on the protagonists involved. I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed with the links I provided, or trusted them. My point was that it's never good to provide only one viewpoint so I was merely providing another to show how media coverage is so biased towards the author's/producer's view or intention. I think I mentioned it is easy to find any article to perpetuate arguments for or against.
btw At the end of the links I put the statement "People can make their own minds up" but I deleted it in error.
You are right about people's experiences being important too and I think I myself have related my own experiences in the past.
I have no objection to debating most of the subject matter on this site but it gets a little boring when it degenerates into the same old topics (of which there are a few)and often not even related to Turkey. Perhaps it's time the site owners made some concessions and set up a political forum or a religious forum, so people can go to these sites for their needs. There is nothing worse than reading a thread about one subject only to find that it has evolved into something completely different. Usually a personal war of words. No doubt someone will have something more to say.
Anyway, thanks again. I'm done too 
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| 110. |
22 Jan 2008 Tue 11:46 pm |
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Quoting peace train: btw At the end of the links I put the statement "People can make their own minds up" but I deleted it in error. |
Dear Peace Train,
Off topic means OFF TOPIC! It does not have to be about Turkey.
AEnigma
PS. I meant to write "your posts are so self-righteous and dull that I think you have finally succeeded in driving me away!"....but I deleted it in error!
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