General/Off-topic |
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Muslim Athlete Disqualified Over Uniform
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| 60. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:18 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: friends we talking about a main human right or freedom,how can we judge other one's prefer while this choice doesn't give any harm to social order???? |
I clearly understand your point of view based upon freedom and religious preferences, and yes they should be free to anybody. The problem here is that this whole idea STEMS from a PROBLEM in SOCİAL ORDER. Maybe the women wearing these indeed do this willingly, freely, because they think it is right for their religion. However, they IDEA in the religion that makes women do this, is the RESULT of distorted ideas about MEN and WOMAN.
So behavior like this, simply cant be put down to freedom, because the ideas behind it, are right against that same freedom you try to defend!
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| 61. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:21 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting thehandsom: Just as an extra info:
Couple of years ago I was in Sile/Istanbul with my parents on the beach. And we saw several women wearing those head to toe covering things. And the men with them were wearing very long swimming trunks. They were trying to enjoy themselves.
My first thought was 'oh well, they have right to be there and enjoy themselves as like any other citizens'. But bizaarly my mother, who is a quite devoted muslim, did not take the same view. Her reaction was :'What is this? if you are that muslim what are you doing here?'. She also said that (in her simplistic turkish way) 'they are trying to say that all these girls wearing normal swimming costumes on this beach are all prostitutes'.
That was what her opinion was about the subject!!
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If that is your mother's opinion, then what was SHE doing on the beach?  |
Well she was with me and my family..She was sitting on the towels. That is all.. and it is a very common thing..it happens..
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| 62. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:27 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting MrX67: friends we talking about a main human right or freedom,how can we judge other one's prefer while this choice doesn't give any harm to social order???? |
I clearly understand your point of view based upon freedom and religious preferences, and yes they should be free to anybody. The problem here is that this whole idea STEMS from a PROBLEM in SOCİAL ORDER. Maybe the women wearing these indeed do this willingly, freely, because they think it is right for their religion. However, they IDEA in the religion that makes women do this, is the RESULT of distorted ideas about MEN and WOMAN.
So behavior like this, simply cant be put down to freedom, because the ideas behind it, are right against that same freedom you try to defend! |
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| 63. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:29 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: İ think theres no place in any law system to put limits on some main human rights with social and political phobias...law rules written only with objective criterions for keep all diversities side by side in a social order.. |
İ think you didnt understand my post well.. Anyway I think you are too religious and I am too feminist (eventhough I am not really  ) to agree upon this topic.. And just for the record, I have no social or political phobia whatsoever , Im just not a strong supporter of oppressing women!!
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| 64. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:30 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting thehandsom: Just as an extra info:
Couple of years ago I was in Sile/Istanbul with my parents on the beach. And we saw several women wearing those head to toe covering things. And the men with them were wearing very long swimming trunks. They were trying to enjoy themselves.
My first thought was 'oh well, they have right to be there and enjoy themselves as like any other citizens'. But bizaarly my mother, who is a quite devoted muslim, did not take the same view. Her reaction was :'What is this? if you are that muslim what are you doing here?'. She also said that (in her simplistic turkish way) 'they are trying to say that all these girls wearing normal swimming costumes on this beach are all prostitutes'.
That was what her opinion was about the subject!!
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I think my mother knows them very well. That is the reason why she talked like that.
Her daughter/my sister goes to the beach in swimming costume.
AND SHE KNOWS THAT WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT HER.
That is what makes her angry.
She knows that it is not about islam or freedom. she knows that they want sheria by heart. She knows that they are faking the freedom cries for their ultimate goal which is sheria.
It is the common people's generic idea btw in Turkey.
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| 65. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:32 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting MrX67: İ think theres no place in any law system to put limits on some main human rights with social and political phobias...law rules written only with objective criterions for keep all diversities side by side in a social order.. |
İ think you didnt understand my post well.. Anyway I think you are too religious and I am too feminist (eventhough I am not really ) to agree upon this topic.. And just for the record, I have no social or political phobia whatsoever , Im just not a strong supporter of oppressing women!! |
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| 66. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:35 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting MrX67: Quoting thehandsom: Just as an extra info:
Couple of years ago I was in Sile/Istanbul with my parents on the beach. And we saw several women wearing those head to toe covering things. And the men with them were wearing very long swimming trunks. They were trying to enjoy themselves.
My first thought was 'oh well, they have right to be there and enjoy themselves as like any other citizens'. But bizaarly my mother, who is a quite devoted muslim, did not take the same view. Her reaction was :'What is this? if you are that muslim what are you doing here?'. She also said that (in her simplistic turkish way) 'they are trying to say that all these girls wearing normal swimming costumes on this beach are all prostitutes'.
That was what her opinion was about the subject!!
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I think my mother knows them very well. That is the reason why she talked like that.
Her daughter/my sister goes to the beach in swimming costume.
AND SHE KNOWS THAT WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT HER.
That is what makes her angry.
She knows that it is not about islam or freedom. she knows that they want sheria by heart. She knows that they are faking the freedom cries for their ultimate goal which is sheria.
It is the common people's generic idea btw in Turkey.
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| 67. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 07:41 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting MrX67: Quoting thehandsom: Just as an extra info:
Couple of years ago I was in Sile/Istanbul with my parents on the beach. And we saw several women wearing those head to toe covering things. And the men with them were wearing very long swimming trunks. They were trying to enjoy themselves.
My first thought was 'oh well, they have right to be there and enjoy themselves as like any other citizens'. But bizaarly my mother, who is a quite devoted muslim, did not take the same view. Her reaction was :'What is this? if you are that muslim what are you doing here?'. She also said that (in her simplistic turkish way) 'they are trying to say that all these girls wearing normal swimming costumes on this beach are all prostitutes'.
That was what her opinion was about the subject!!
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I think my mother knows them very well. That is the reason why she talked like that.
Her daughter/my sister goes to the beach in swimming costume.
AND SHE KNOWS THAT WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT HER.
That is what makes her angry.
She knows that it is not about islam or freedom. she knows that they want sheria by heart. She knows that they are faking the freedom cries for their ultimate goal which is sheria.
It is the common people's generic idea btw in Turkey.
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There is only one way out of this unfortunately.
I think, somehow, the islamists make the public believe that they DENOUNCE THE SHERIA.
They should say it publicly and make everybody believe they are not after sheria.
Dont you agree?
And I am hoping that you are against the backward, anti democratic, dogmatic Seria which was abolished by Ataturk.
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| 68. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 08:08 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: which was abolished by Ataturk.
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To quote Atatürk on his thoughts about women-clothing:
(I translated it to English for other members to also understand)
Especially in smaller and bigger cities I saw that our women friends have their faces and eyes closed with thick cloth and very carefully. In this hot season especially I can guess how disturbing and painful this style must be for themselves. Male friends, this is kind of the result of our selfishness. Its necessary to be very pure and careful. However my respected friends, our women too, are understanding and wellthinking human beings like us.... They should show their faces to the world. May they see the world carefully with their eyes. There is nothing scary in that!
özellikle kasaba ve şehirlerde kadın arkadaşlarımızın yüzlerini ve gözlerini çok kalın ve dikkatle kapatmakta olduklarını gördüm. Özellikle bu sıcak mevsimde bu tarz kendileri için mutlaka acı ve rahatsızlık verici olduğunu tahmin ediyorum. Erkek arkadaşlar, bu biraz bizim bencilliğimiz eseridir. Çok temiz ve dikkatli olduğumuzun gereğidir. Fakat saygıdeğer arkadaşlar, kadınlarımız da, bizim gibi anlayan ve düşÃ¼nen insanlardır
". Onlara ahlâkın kutsal şeylerini aşılamak, millî ahlâkımızı anlatmak ve onların beyinlerini nur ile, temizlikle donatmak esası üzerinde bulunduktan sonra fazla bencilliğe gerek kalmaz. Onlar yüzlerini dünyaya göstersinler. Ve gözleriyle dünyayı dikkatle görebilsinler. Bunda korkulacak bir şey yoktur.
I left the bold sentence out, couldnt manage to translte fine enough. By the way, his speech is in çağdaş türkçe, ofcourse it wasnt like that when he spoke it 
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| 69. |
20 Jan 2008 Sun 11:18 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: pity so many people like you never aware of the realities their own society or country?? |
MrX, what exactly makes YOU an expert on the "realities in your own society"? Why don't you prove that your version of reality is more right then handsom's. You are only making claims that have no reflection in reality.
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| 70. |
21 Jan 2008 Mon 05:12 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting MrX67: pity so many people like you never aware of the realities their own society or country?? |
MrX, what exactly makes YOU an expert on the "realities in your own society"? Why don't you prove that your version of reality is more right then handsom's. You are only making claims that have no reflection in reality. |
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