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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

(1954 Messages in 196 pages - View all)
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Thread: Quo vadis?

171.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Apr 2011 Thu 02:48 am

First of all let me congratulate you for addition of a new one to your family.

The real question being asked here is not about authority and with the exception of Ataturk none of the leaders I mentioned are remembered as an autocratic ruler. You have opened an interesting window into the general description of what an ideal European leader must be like.

We can say without thinking much that there are three kinds of leaders in today´s Europe: classical bourgeois leaders who represent the interests of the wealthy families. Berlusconi fits here the best followed by Sarkozy. These leaders exhibit a strong personal touch. They have big egos and want to stick to a version of European ideal derived from more conservative past of Europe. There are also socialist leaders like Zapatero of Spain. Engliand set a model for them for years but the Labor party is barely discernable from right wing parties at the moment.

Formerly, the European leadership models were more or less confined to these two types. Of course, all the aforementioned qualities existed in a more accentuated and iron-clad form. Let´s keep in mind that we are not discussing political views here; just the type of leadership.

Today there is a new kind of leader. He/she has an office term, that office term starts and ends in utter monotony. These leaders are unable to introduce any perspective other than those which are already established. They are more like civil-servants. They could make excellent secretaries but not national leaders, did we live some 30 years ago. More importantly, they do not inspire much to new generation. They seem to be taking care of a boring responsibility. It is evident that I am talking about Merkel.

If you want to assess the contribution a good leader can do to a nation, remember the transitions when Gorbachev was in power and the brisk development at the hands of Putin. Germany is talking about inflation and recession. Isn´t this a time for stronger leadership?



Thread: American Girls are the Worst!

172.       vineyards
1954 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 07:21 pm

Do you think a typical American, Mexican, Brazilian, German or  a typical Dutch is a saint?

Do you think British men walk in the streets with sticks in hand and exquisite manners. Is a typical Spanish guy an ardent reader of classical literature? Do greengrocers really sing arias in Italy? Is a typical Romanian Count Dracula? What about those flying Dutchmen, I think they all work for the KLM.

If multiple examples justify settling on a norm, my typical French tourist would be the one who never washes and shamelessly farts in public. What about those British football fans; they can´t be aristocrats can they. When they abondoned the Taksim square, the whole place looked like an open air public loo. All the streets were washed with sticky beer drunk and conveniently discarded by the fans. It took quite a few fire trucks to clean the place.

There are still paternal families and they are not few but in a country like Turkey, generalizing this point is nothing but ridiculous. I meet many people everyday who surprize me with the things they have achieved in this country. In my opinion, if anything is becoming prevalent in this country its these people who achieve things without judging themselves according to somebody else´s principles. The sooner people realize this point, the easier the relations between them will become.

 

 

Daydreamer and Elisabeth liked this message


Thread: Quo vadis?

173.       vineyards
1954 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 12:05 am

Let´s remember the last 5 Presidents in the US and the last 5 PM´s in Turkey. I believe all of of them lag behind Thomas Jefferson in terms of the basic tenets of democracy, equality and human rights. They are nowhere near Ben Franklin or Kemal Atatürk in terms of innovation and influence. What will remain to future generations from this generation?

Do we need a pathfinder? Are we even aware of such a need?

Elisabeth liked this message


Thread: American Girls are the Worst!

174.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Apr 2011 Mon 07:13 am

Ethnocentrism, xenophobia and the racist sentiment with various modes and intensities are all parts of our lives. They exist in the US and they exist in Turkey too.

Today, extreme right-wing parties freely advocating what could be considered as racist policies can get considerable public support. For example in Austria, the right wing party that calls for imposing restrictions on Turkish immigrants and suspending relations with Turkey could get 30% of the vote. Nevertheless, it is also true that the extremist discourse is usually meant for fishing for votes and they rarely put their silly promises into practice on rising to power. We have had nationalist and religious parties running the country. Could they convert us into what they advertised in their election campaigns? No. That is to say, much of this is really word salad. There are indeed racist elements underneath but as long as the they are not backed by the laws, all that we can do is ignoring them. We must however fight against racist elements in rules, regulations, policies and public statements.

All said, there is little cure in this for your problem about socializing with the US females. To my surprize, they have never been crazy for me either. Luckily, I haven´t been attracted to them either. You know when you live in different worlds, this does not pose a problem. You don´t want to spend your life with someone who has a completely different and incompatible mindset. There examples that prove, there are less typical Turks or Americans than what most people believe.

Usually, we talk, believing that we are making a point. In reality, our listeners derive different messages from our words. These messages are hidden in many aspects of our speech. Although they fail to reflect what you really want to say, they do convey a message regarding who you actually are. For example, I don´t like your "typical Turk" description nor do I like your generalization about American women. Moreover, I don´t agree with your generalization about European women either. Three disagreements following one another. If I were a woman that would be enough for me to keep my distance. A mind that divides people into classes is capable of doing other mildly irritating things. Here is a rule of the thumb, if you divide people into three or more categories and blame them for one thing or another, you are probably a megalomaniac. Of course, you haven´t done this and I am not calling you that but that is just an example...

Although strickly not a problem associated with you as a person, megalomania is quite common among young people and in the campus environment. It is surely one way to beat boredom. Young people live in an oversimplified world where the sky is the only limit. After turning a few pages on the text book, they look at butchers, green grocers and other craftsmen around and dub themselves the next Einstein. A single word could convert them into revolutionaries. I know because I was young too. I had problems understanding women too. I was always amazed why they weren´t attracted to such a high IQ man like me. I was unable to see myself through the eyes of another person then. Even today, that point is a bit problematic.

And the punch line is, the entire America can not be against you. There are still millions of people with whom you could connect with. It is just a matter of trying with patience.

clarividencia and newquaker liked this message


Thread: Names of Baglama Notes in Turkish?

175.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Apr 2011 Sun 10:31 pm

Could you be looking for makam names like Hicaz, Rast, Hüzzam etc? Although makams exist in greater diversity in Classical Turkish Music, there are makams in Turkish Folk Music too. Makams are musical patterns that determine whether certain notes are to be played as sharp or flat.



Thread: Murder of children renews debate over death penalty in Turkey

176.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Apr 2011 Sat 03:10 pm

Turkish Minister for Industry and Trade casts light on the status of capital punishment. Below is translated from the online edition of daily Hurriyet. There is an obvious flaw with this train of thought which is imported from the EU. Even if someone is caught red handed, there is no way to subject him to capital punishment. 

 

THERE IS NO GOING BACK

Capital punishment is back on the agenda in Turkey and particularly in Kayseri following the outbreak of the news on murder of the kidnapped children in the province.

 

Minister Ergun thinks one of the major concerns that lead to the abolishing of the capital punishment in Turkey was the probability of false convictions. He said there are instances where evidence found 10 years after the execution proving a suspect innocent, but there is of course no going back after execution. He said this point has induced a trend against capital punishment in the world. Since Turkey acts in line with the EU principles, capital punishment is also abolished in Turkey.

 

"IT IS NOT THAT CERTAIN CRIMINALS DON´T DESERVE DEATH SENTENCE."

"There are crimes justifying capital punishment in the world´s societies but since there can be false convitions, and some people can be proven innocent after years, we can restore justice to those affected by false convitions at least with a delay.


 



Edited (4/2/2011) by vineyards
Edited (4/2/2011) by vineyards



Thread: Absurd news from the Globe

177.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Apr 2011 Sat 01:06 am

He shaved his moustache in the last ten-fifteen years of his life.



Edited (4/2/2011) by vineyards



Thread: Documentary “1821” Jolts Greek Official History

178.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Apr 2011 Fri 08:18 pm

I am a descendant of the Turks who lived in Greece prior to the Great Ppulation Exchange that took place in 1923, in the aftermath of the WWI.

My grandmother used to tell this story all the time. One day in the year 1923, a Greek priest whom they know knock on their door and tells them to hurry to the port if they want to save their lives. The priest says, the militia were gathering the Turks in a mosque and that he has heard they will burn them. Having found the head of the old woman living next door in the closet of her house, they are already in a panic and they instantly decide to follow the priest. There is a boat waiting for them at the harbour. They get on it and sail to Turkey for the first time in their lives. 

 



Thread: Murder of children renews debate over death penalty in Turkey

179.       vineyards
1954 posts
 31 Mar 2011 Thu 09:21 pm

There is a seed of truth in what you are saying. The system must indeed protect citizens from themselves too. 

Nevertheless, like all beliefs about systems whose rules are anonymously set (or at least appear to be that way) there are strings of assumptions whose validity change in the course of time. So what is considered modern will be archaic tomorrow. Public opinion about capital punishment is one such matter which can go in either direction as the assumptions change.

If the matter were say rape and if I could find words to justify it. I might say, in nature there is no rape because sexuality is not harnessed by the laws. THerefore rape is a petty crime and serving 5-10 years in prison would be a disproportionate punishment. If I said so, it wouldn´t be too difficult for you to defend the existing penal code emphasizing the special nature of the crime. What augments the punishment here is not only the material harm done but also the psychological one and the latter has greater weight here. Likewise, when people demand capital punishment, they partly base this on the fact that it is not just the loss of that person but also the irrepairable damage done in the psychologies of the persons who lost him.

You  displayed selective attention when you wrote in a previous message something like this: although many people lost their lives during the WWII like Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals etc., I mostly write and think about Jews and the Jewish Holocaust.  And the laws does consider this a special case and jail you if you deny the Holocaust. If the laws don´t care about anything other than the crime itself why do they single out certain crimes as more punishable. Isn´t that done because of sentiments other than justice? 

Everyday hundreds of people are murdered. There are so many incidents that newspapers don´t carry them unless they concern a celebrity, a very important person or unless murder committed in a strikingly brutal manner and people just don´t mind them all that much. The entire harm of a murder is done to the person murdered and those associated with him. If you judge a murderer with a sentiment expected of a newspaper reader, you can not establish justice in the hearts of those who are victimized. 

 

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Thread: Murder of children renews debate over death penalty in Turkey

180.       vineyards
1954 posts
 30 Mar 2011 Wed 07:51 pm

There is probably not a single answer to a question like that. If youcan´t be bothered you simply say, yes or no. As a matter of fact, the same person could give different answers in different stages of his lilfe because this is one of the most crucial questions pertaining to justice.

Religions, folklore and the primeval nature of man urges him to take revenge when he or those in his group or family are offended, challenged, harmed or killed by others. Usually, this revenge either equals or outstips the oppoenent´s action. Man is used to functioning like this so it feels quite natural to desire to kill someone who killed one of you. After all, this is allowed and in some cases even encouraged by most religions. 

Modern states are also keen on retailiating. Mutuality and reciprocity are the two key criteria in relations so is retaliation. It is understood that all of these are just elaborations of the eye for eye, blood for blood mentality.

If someone killed someone who is very dear to me, I would wish to kill that person. That would not cure my grief. It would just help my anger. This is in my nature. I am not that modern so as to think about the conditions that caused that person to become a murderer. I can´t think so philosophical. Just as my attachment to my beloved ones is nothing but a primeval feeling, my urge to hurt those hurt them is also a primeval one.

That being said, I can´t claim that would be the most productive solution. Nor can I claim, bereaving someone of his freedom is any different from effectively killing that person. Both are done because of the existence of coercion that can decide on a punishment but not on its limits because of some philosophical reserve.

 

 

 

 



Edited (4/1/2011) by vineyards

Roswitha liked this message


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