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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

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Thread: Documentary series about Turkey on Dutch tv

181.       vineyards
1954 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 06:54 pm

Nice documentary. I think I understood about 30% of the Dutch conversations since 
Dutch seems to be very similar to English. 

Turkey is like an onion, there are layers after layers. For a foreigner, it might be a daunting task to come to grasp of the chaotic aspects of this society. Nevertheless, the documentary did a good job squeezing as much diversity as possible into a single episode.

Through the end of the movie there was a dialogue with a young girl about Ataturk. She says Ataturk was a dictator and the host asks whether she would mind saying that with the camera on. The truth is, Ataturk was a dictator. He was a dictator who took over the rule from a monarchy and declared a single party regime at a time of utter chaos, economic and military fatigue. He opened the door for a multi partite democracy. On seeing, having opposition meant a reversal of the civil reforms and a rise of the Islamists he abolished that but always look forward to a favourable climate to initiate a Western style democracy. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same.

 



Thread: Was Serbia yet another victim?

182.       vineyards
1954 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 05:52 pm

Slavica, you shouldn´t consider this as a court hearing. It is just something that popped to mind after reading your post about US and UN military interventions (which are actually the same thing in disguise). You could write a self-criticism in addition to the sufferings you went through. It is not a big deal. We sometimes discuss fiercely but remain as friends in the end which is a good thing.



Thread: Turkey to hire 40,000 native English speakers as guest teachers

183.       vineyards
1954 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 02:08 am

Let´s remember what conditions Turkish teachers of the English language working in public schools enjoy.

* Regardless of where they live, they must serve in a location determined by the Education Authority. This could be some remote terror stricken Turkish village predominantly populated by the Kurds for some of whom Turkish is a foreign language much the same way as English is.

*They must get by with a salary of TL1200 if they are a new teacher. After working for 30 years they can look forward to a hefty TL1400 salary. Note: Salaries are paid on a monthly basis, so don´t reach for that calculator. 

*Their salaries are increased between 3 and 4 percent every year. That is several times smaller than officially declared annual inflation which some believe is also several times smaller than the the actual increase in prices. (Particularly energy, alcohol and tobacco.)

These people are never given a chance to improve themselves economically. So, as expected many of them speak English poorly. Having a salary like that means you must calculate every penny you spend. You can´t believe the precision with which some of these guys have to calculate their monthly spendings in order to reach the end of the month without starving. No entertainment, no social life other than home visits; just boredom and family quarrels.

It is ironic that these nice guys at the ministry are working on such a costly plan. Perhaps, they are targeting the fakirs in the Indian community of the UK. Since they can survive without eating or drinking much, they are naturally eligible for that position.

The government might also be planning to pay these 40k native teachers a salary on a par with what they might get back home. Well, one foreign teacher will then cost as much as 8-10 Turkish teachers. But you know these guys musn´t have born as Turks in the first place. 

Anyway, we are kind of used to this. When I was in Athens a couple of years ago, a Greek guy complained of the high fuel prices in their country. I say: "Oh, come on it is only one Euro per liter." He answers that by saying. "Yeah, but it is even cheaper in Turkey, for that reason all our yachts sail to the Turkish coast to fill their tanks with cheap fuel." Methinks: "There is something wrong with that. In Turkey gas is almost 2 Euros per liter." Then I learned that foreigners are exempt from taxes that´s why they can enjoy the fuel on the cheap. I hope 40k English teachers will enjoy our country too.

 

 



Edited (3/28/2011) by vineyards
Edited (3/28/2011) by vineyards



Thread: Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book

184.       vineyards
1954 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 06:14 pm

Your messages are a bit perplexing. Were you stating a flaw inherent to all democracies when you replied to my first message? I believe your statement was a bit equivocal in this context.

As for what I am advocating, it is certain that journalism as a profession is far from being limited to its dictionary meaning in today´s (an possibly yesterday´s) world. There are extensions to the honorable basic function of journalism which deserve practically no respect (e.g. paparazzi, politically colored, biased publications etc.) And it is indeed questionable that these kinds of journalism should enjoy the same legal protection.

Nevertheless, what is being conveyed here is by the nature of the business are thoughts, opinions and news regardless of what principles they follow and there are laws aiming to control unlawful actions committed by the press.

This last incident might be considered as an example of censorship although we can´t prove therefore openly claim done under the control of the government, we can deduct this point from the general picture that clearly shows who is patronizing whom and whose interests are harmed by what action. 

 

 

 

Quoting stumpy

Quote:barba_mama

I have NO idea, since the writer could not even THINK about publishing it without the Turkish police arresting him. I am sure that if I was in the authorities position, I would not raid that publishing house. I would spend my time fighting actual terrorists, or fight the corruption that is present in the government.

 

My comment was not aimed directly at you but was a comment about your post.

What about the Patrio Act the has been signed into law on October 26 2001 by Goerge W Bush?  Do you know that with that law, the US authoreties can detaine you without any concret proof that you are a terrorist?  They only have to suspect that you are to detaine you.  That law is no better than the Enabling Act of 1933 which removed power from the Reichstag and transfered power to Hitler´s cabinet.  The only diffrence is that it was voted in a democratic country!

Is that democratic?  Where is the "you are innocent until proven guilty" motto?  with that law you are automaticly guilty and you have to prove you are innocent!  They can search your home, workplace, friends home without any warrants.  Is that still democratic?  It is exactly the same as what you are accusing the Turkish authoreties of doing to the plublishing house.

In some countries if you borrow the book Mine Kampf by Hitler from a library it sends a flag to the authoreties, this is done in Canada and the US.  You buy hydroponic items you are flagged.  Do you know that if you buy fertiliser that is also flagged to the authoreties? And many other actions are recorded by the authoreties.  So it is not just the writters and such that are "shadowed" but the regular law abiding citizen. 

So when you say we live in a democratic country, it is not totally true.  We only have an appearance of democratie, which is exactly what our leaders wants us to beleive.

 

 



Thread: Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book

185.       vineyards
1954 posts
 26 Mar 2011 Sat 01:01 am

Once I genuinely believed in people. I thought man is good by nature and therefore anything done through people´s consent would produce positive results for the well-being of society. Time has proven that it is actually the other way around. Democracy could be used for legitimizing oppression. At tactful hands, democracy could be turned into a tool for violating basic freedoms.

We are proceeding on a path of conversion, a conversion to complete somebody else´s dreams.A conversion that will alienate us from our own democratic ideals. I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far.



Thread: Was Serbia yet another victim?

186.       vineyards
1954 posts
 24 Mar 2011 Thu 03:14 pm

Where is Slavica?



Thread: Lybia and the no-fly zone

187.       vineyards
1954 posts
 23 Mar 2011 Wed 02:54 pm

OK. Keep on finding this ridiculous but religion is indeed a factor for conflicts and wars. There is enough evidence it will remain that way for a good while more. Remember, we atheists are still marginals in the eyes of society.

As for France doing this for the sake of religion or not; it doesn´t matter actually; they are doing this in a part of the world where they have no business. 

I think there are too many blind people around...

alameda liked this message


Thread: Lybia and the no-fly zone

188.       vineyards
1954 posts
 23 Mar 2011 Wed 01:32 pm

If they don´t poke their nose into everyone´s business and aspire the role of global police no one will criticize them. These are just empty words.

Quoting si++

Excerpts from an article:

 

Now, allow me to put all that in perspective. Like everybody else, I have been following the events in Libya with concern. I was hoping that the rebels would be able to take Gadhafi down, and establish at least a proto-democracy, but that did not turn out to be the case. The mad colonel proved to be resilient – and merciless – enough to wage war against his own people.

So, I was happy to see the United Nations Security Council take the decision for a no-fly zone in Libya. I knew there were serious risks, and the civilian casualties of the very first days made me cautious as well, not to mention my distaste for Mr. Sarkozy’s arrogant enthusiasm. But I know that Gadhafi would probably have destroyed thousands of innocent lives in eastern Libya had the NATO allies not acted. I also know that the West was working quite happily with Gadhafi since the early 2000s, so I can’t convince myself that the whole affair is a pre-planned “Western plot” to occupy Libya and exploit its sources.

Yet such arguments do not sell well in Turkey. Most people here rather want to see something evil in whatever the West does. And they find that evil no matter what happens. When NATO allies stand aside while Gadhafi kills his own people, this shows that the West is hypocritical about human rights and does not give a damn about Muslim lives. If the same allies act against Gadhafi, then they become “crusaders” and “oil-sucking imperialists.” As Karl Popper rightly pointed out, there is simply no way to beat such an “unfalsifiable” scheme.

 

Source: here

 

 



Thread: Lybia and the no-fly zone

189.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Mar 2011 Tue 10:32 pm

Well, it is of course worth checking the tertiary meanings of words used in public speeches. If you are not careful with your vocabulary you are prone to misunderstanding. A murder can be a glorious feat when done in the name of God. You can derive meanings from any word. Isn´t Sarkozy opposing Turkey´s membership on account that Turkey is not European (to most people that also means: since Turkey is not Christian). On a short visit, he made this point clear showing the Midlle East as where Turkey must exist. Don´t tell me Sarkozy´s mind is clear of stereotypes. He is indeed a crusader, he just doesn´t wear an armour.

Quoting Daydreamer

 

cru·sade  (kr-sd)

 

1. often Crusade Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.
2. A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.

 3. A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. See Synonyms at campaign.

 

 

alameda liked this message


Thread: Lybia and the no-fly zone

190.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Mar 2011 Tue 07:18 pm

French Minister of Domestic Affairs appeared on TV yesterday and openly named the attack on Libya as a "crusade" directed by Sarkozy. 

 

Source: www.hurriyet.com.tr

 



Edited (3/22/2011) by vineyards



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