I have many girl friends. But I have never really tried developing friendship with a guy. Not even one I think. I dont know, Im afraid maybe.

However, Im always trying to speculate that this is possible without developing any further or intimate relationship in the future. Yes, I believe so.

Met several guys - work, meetings, everywhere but relating to them is only just skin deep. I always think - guys will never spend time with some women if they dont have any attraction or feeling towards them. So if I cant develop real one - forget it!

But Im still hopeful that one day this thing / this speculation would come into reality.

I hope....

Of course, it isn't possible to develop any relationship with a guy as long as you think and believe so.

As nice as it sounds, in my opinion it never happens! The guy always wants more, at some stage along the line. I have even had a certain male from class site tell me that unless I have a relationship with him he will not be friends with me, and now does not want to speak to me. I find this very sad as men and women should be about to be friends, without any complications.

It is a shame Elisa, as I thought that he was a really nice person, and was happy to be friends. Like you said, it's just not worth it.

heyy dont worry to close them...we boys not a dragon....we dont eat girls at the first glance...im kidding ...anyway you shouldnt afraid of boys...they are also human beings and you should also have boy friends....just suppose them as your brother.bye

itchy ceyda...anybody wants to scratch her...

that sounds a bit scary... hehe
i get what u mean... and no man.. thats not the case... trust me on that...

anyway.. i will brb... 5 mins ok??

thx i think you began to care me why?????
am i interesting...????

you are an interesting person i think... u can talk a lot of **** but yeah never mind...
im just working right now.. anything is more interesting than that right?? hehe dont take it personally

Maybe, as Im pondering the idea more, one theory that could be looked at is attraction could come first between a man and woman and then being aware of their respective values and limitations they would both realize that they could only be friends.

However, keeping the friendship well, pure and healhty is another concern.

i agree... if the man can keep his hands to himself

you're right cyrano. My fear keeps me from developing one.

I was wondering, have you by any chance able to keep one?

"Friendship is love with intelligence" ...or at least it should be!



/Aslan

GAME THEORY

The oldest game ever in the history of mankind is the one played between Ladies and Gentlemen.

The game has few variations. Novice players may be hurt,if they fail to recognize the type of game they are involved in or if they are not sufficiently aware of the governing game rules.

Variations of the game can be listed as,

Casual intimacy,
Relationship,
Love.

They have some features in common, but they also display significant differences in philosophy, meaning, rules and tactics. Each has to be mastered, before any enjoyment is possible.

No pain, no gain !

Friendship is precious gift which has to be built on hearthfelt caring for each other.The warmth of friendship lives withhin you and becomes a part of what you are.Tried and true friendships are rare and not often found.
Friendship is one of life's most preciuos blessings.

i think that there can be a well established friendship between a man and a woman.. although only for a certain amount of time..
lets say that the woman has a great personality.. and is the ideal partner as well as friend... how could the guy not fall in love with her...? if he already has passionate feelings for her as a friend.. how can he maintain that and not allow his feelings to develop into sth. more and then take advantage of him..?

i believe that one cannot control the way they feel.. ever...

Merhaba Classy Classmates and Miss Bliss

Your post is so true of friends and cherishing the relationship as it is a priceless one and true and dear friends like you mentioned are few and far between. I am very blessed with mine and let them know on a regular basis how much I love them and cherish our friendship. So thank you my sweet dear friend for being you !!!!!!!!!!!!! And thanks to this site and everyone here.


Take care

Peace and Love too all

Tsarevna/Stacia

Kelley

Miss Ceyda,
You are mixing it all up !
Why dont you read my enlightened post?...it is only a couple of messages above yours..

PS.................................................
MY FRIENDS ARE BOTH MALE AND FEMALE. MY OPINION IS YES YOU CAN HAVE A FRIENDSHIP WITH BOTH BUT GIRLS WILL BE GIRLS AS BOYS WILL BE BOYS AND DIFFERENT BUT STILL AS SPECIAL.

TAKE CARE EVERYONE

BYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Im so sad to hear that Aslan. I can't imagine how hard that for you or how you regret that it happened.

Yes should i be able to find a real one - I shall take noteo of your advice.

Thank you.

Thank you, Dhang, for your concern.

And I am glad if my sad experience could be useful to someone in order to not make the same mistake.

/Aslan

You cannot help but make mistakes in life - it is how we all learn and love is one of the hardest lessons of all

Hi Ramayan,

That was a wonderful analysis on developing friendship with men. You made a big point there and Im actually speechless.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on me.

Ramayan,

You're simply you. You dont need to be somebody else to be recognize or to make a big point to other person's life.

I dont believe in such friendships because it never worked for me. There is always sexual interest and it may be hidden but there is. Or both should be ugly to each other, then it can work.

Sure, i´ve had and still have many male friends. If we´re stereotyping, we´ll never have friends - we´ll fear our male friends would like to shag us and our female friends would treat us as rivals. Friendship depends on what kind of people meet, not what their gender is

  Ã also think it can be, you can have male friends as well, it depends on the person too and your judgment if you can take him as a friend or not

Men same as women, some of them think its possible to be friend with women and some dont ..and ask for more!

 But nevertheless in some cases things may be developed to more than friendship, imagine you have a close male friend who understand you more than anyone else in the whole world, knows what you dis/like, sometimes know what you are thinking if you have a moment of silent...etc and you understand him same too, so by time feeling may be developed between you, and also may not and you stay a good friends for ever!

No guarantees actually it depends on the persons themselves.

As someone who grew up with only brothers, I have never had problems being friends with boys/men.  I think it is very possible for men and women to be friends without their being a physical attraction between the two.  The problem arises when people can´t put aside their stereotypes about men and women. 

I never thought of my friends in terms of gender, till I was exposed to ´too much Turkish culture´. Sometimes when I realise I now do, I am rather ashamed of myself!

Actually I have more close male friends than female friends, but I never really thought of them as ´male friend´ and ´female friend´. They are all just FRIENDS. And yeah, some of them understand nailpolish better than others, but seriously, we discuss the same things over the same wine. Sexual tension has never been an issue, simply because we never saw eachother in terms of gender, but in terms of friends.

Yeah, that´s what happens when people grow up to see each other as humans, not merely sex objects. In countries where gender is not such a taboo and people mix freely, there are very normal man-woman friendships. It´s only when you teach girls and boys that they need to be scared of the opposite sex, when they can´t form normal human friendships.

There is unfortunately a big lack of communication between the two sexes in this country. This is not very true for those who live in better neighborhoods. As they call them, they are the white Turks and I think I fall into this group. We tend to stay away from the restrictive aspects of life. We have a totally different understanding of religion, friendship and life in general. Sometimes, we are blind to the realities of this country. We tend to have idealized notions about Turkishness.

Many a typical Turk honestly describes himself  as an opportunist who takes advantage of every opportunity for the bread money. Europe  therefore, is quite attractive to him. He fancies a world where he can live his own life at the expense of others. I have encountered many young people from poorer circles who sought exactly this form of life abroad. There are exceptions for these people as well. They are extremely faithful to their own family and kinsmen. They consider foreign women as a stop over on the way to marriage, a good opportunity to taste the pleasures of life before stepping into a usually arranged marriage with a person who can be approved by his family. Of course, there are people of other kinds too but this is sadly the general outlook.

You can´t expect people of this sort to have genuine friendships with the other sex. They are usually sly enough to take full advantage of the naiveness of their foreign friends. Of course, in such matters no one cares about what kind of a fame Turkish men in general will gain as a result. The fame is currently quite bad and it is getting worse. If your boy friend wants you to pay a debt, send him a phone, you should really be suspicious of him.

I know this is getting a bit off topic but since this is becoming rather irritating, I wanted to say a word of caution.

I too have many female friends and there is no such thing like it being impossible between different sexes.  After a certain age, sex is no longer a primary objective in life. Of course, this does not apply to hormone driven teenagers.

The funny thing is, close friends I have in Turkey are nearly all male. Yes, they are friends of Kadir, but I have known them for 4 years now and some of them have really grown to belong to my best mates. For some reason I have never been able to establish such a close feeling of friendship with Turkish girls. I guess it has to do with freedom a bit. I am more of a guy according to Turkish standards of freedom of speech and behaviour

really funny. open ur eyes and think why you cant establish friendship with turkish girls. freedom is not a good reason. the only reason that u have male friends is u have a different looking, and turkish guys like blondes

What a sexist, offensive comment. It shows that you truly cannot see women as humans.

You are not a woman, Janissary, so please don´t make ignorant comments about women-women relationships.

 if you noticed, I made a comment about men-women relationships also

Truth hurts þekerim I dont think my comment is offensive or sexiest. I just wanted her to look from other side and see things with a different view instead of accusing other side. actually I would like to write more than my post but I dont want her feel worse. u say I was offensive, what about delikýzýn? she thinks she cant establish friendship with turkish girls coz they are not free like her. your comment also shows double standard of you.

All three comments made by Delikizin, TheJanissary and catwoman are extremely prejudicial. Delikizin considers herself more like a Turkish man from personal freedom point of view which is only proper for rural or small town Turkey and quite wrong for majority of women in the big city. TheJanissary made an assumption that men in Turkey show over indulgence in blondes. That is true in all societies where blondes, brunettes or red heads are rare. If that were the only factor, there would be multiple love affairs and fighting over her hand which I don´t believe is the case here. Most people are sane enough to know their friends. Catwoman on the other hand made a nose dive into the matter driven by a singular stimulus: feminist sensitivity.

To put the record straight, Turkey is behind Europe from personal freedoms point of view but by only a certain percentage. It is wrong to assume Europe sets a model for all. In fact, Europe must take substantial steps in order to educate its people in matters ranging from sexuality, racism and xenophobia and all the prejudices it creates. We should also stop considering Europe as a singular entity. There are various cultures and values in it too. Furthermore, we should stop pointing our fingers at unfortunate others. Just as you cannot help poverty and ignorance in your ghettos, you can´t help poorer or less fortunate countries.

From what I can observe, the greatest step ever made towards this point of view in the last few decades has sadly been the song: We Are the World, We Are the Children. Everyone is keeping their power for themselves and the world turns into an arena where there are lambs facing lions.

Vineyards, I am not sure I understand why you said that my comment was prejudiced. I kind of feel like you attribute my comments to "feminist sensitivity" just because you know I´m a feminist, because I disagree with you that that´s what it is, but I´d really like to see your train of thought, because maybe you´re actually right.

I think that it is true that Europe is not a monolith, and Turkey is not a monolith either. But I think that as long as you are aware of that, you can still make some generalizations, and see that on average women in Europe have more freedom.. I also think that singling out Europe for its racism and xenophobia, and implying that Turkey does not have that problem is simply not true. Turkey has been denying the very existance of Kurds for ages and you have been calling them "mountain Turks", which is as racist as you can think. There is plenty of evidence of religious intolerance in Turkey. And I can´t imagine what would happen if massive numbers of foreigners would come to Turkey, with different cultures and languages and religions, how the tolerance level would look. I don´t think it would be pretty!

With that said, I do think that we all need to be criticized and constantly challenged, so I do appreciate your comments of disagreement.

Turkey is not officially calling Kurds as mountain Turks anymore. This was a political mistake that is left behind inthe 80´s and 90´s.  Even then this notion was advocated what we can call as ultranationalist groups based on the present conjecture. True, many restrictions existed in the past that made it impossible for the Kurds in the country to express themselves.  It is usually not easy to have a correct judgement about these kinds of matters. On one hand we have a community of tens of millions of people a considerable portion of which is either directly or indirectly involved in an armed conflict.  I remember very well that back in the 80´s that these people were putting up a mutiny as a protest for the torture at the hands of law enforcers and soldiers. They were  calling for greater freedom and recognition of the Kurdish identity.  Turkey though extremely slowly has addressed a great number of these problems many of which were stemming from the  mindset of the people in charge. The terrorist organization has also hampered efforts to develop the region economically which would upon its realization would automatically solve some of the profound problems in South East Turkey.  Today, they are pointing their fingers at the hatred that has accumulated over the years within society. The armed conflict has converted the ordinary Turk into a Kurd hater and vice versa. In cities like Izmir, businessmen don´t hire Kurdish people. On the Internet,  there are flame wars everywhere with Kurds calling Turks names and again vice versa. Kurds readily associate with anyone (eg Armenian and Greek extremists) hating Turkey or Turks.  This is no longer a war for justice. They just want a part of a sovereign country.

I know you only say this to annoy me, not because you think this is true. After all, you told someone yesterday that you think I am gýcýk.

 the funny things is everybody knows everything about turkey outside of Turkey. we dont know what is racism, we learned it from europe (so-called modern countries) which is still going on. Before criticizing others first you should clean ur house every turkish ppl aware of the thing which is being played for many years on Turkey. in the beginning they used religion differences but they failed. now they are trying enthicity.

and dont worry there are enough massive numbers of foreigners with different culture, religon etc than u can imagine. and what about massive numbers of foreign ppl in ur countr or in europe?

freedom of speech is not the telling the opposite. it s the telling of the truth! I advice you read my post without horse glasses caným

 My comment was not prejudicial, since I did not try to make a conclusion that is applicable in all cases. It was a comment based on MY friends in Turkey, both female and male. And from that I can conclude that the reason I am more closely friends with my male friends in turkey than the female, has mainly got to do with freedom. I have noticed much conservativeness in the speech of my female friends in Turkey and therefore could not experience the sense of friendship I have with Dutch friends. I however do feel that sense with my male friends in Turkey. I do not understand where you feel the need to respond to my personal experience with ´only proper for rural or small town Turkey and quite wrong for majority of women in the big city´.  Because my comment was for MY situation based upon experiences with MY friends (as for rural-city turkey, this comment was based on friendships with girls from Ýzmir, nothing rural there.).

And you may want to reconsider the age group I belong to before making a comment. Girls around 20 who still live with their parents during their university do not have that much freedom as I have been used to since I was 15.

You have not the slightest idea what kind of ´free´ I was talking about. I am not talking about going out alone at night till 5 o´clock. That is not freedom for me.  I am talking about being honest and open in conversations without taboos. I did not find this in most Turkish girls I met in Ýzmir.  I do have friends like that, but compared to my male ones they are rare. I can count them on 1 hand.  

 It is of course your own experience but that experience does not comply with my own. I took the liberty of placing myself as someone who has a more intimate knowledge about Turkish people. I am aware of the conservative attitude of some girls but again there are tons of others who are not like that. I sometimes consider myself a lot more conservative than a typical teenage girl. I see with much surprize that many of the taboos of yesterday have long been left behind by new generation. Maybe I shouldn´t have used the word prejudice. I am not trying to bash anyone.

Well, Delikizin, I am 42 years old. We can´t be belonging to the same age group can we? Can you be considered in the same generation with your father or uncle?

Furthermore big cities are full of people coming from small towns. It is quite difficult to understand the complexities of big cities like Istanbul or Izmir. If  you (literal) draw a conclusion based on your limited personal experience, you may be astounded at learning about the presence of other groups of people with totally different lives.

I apoligize if I hurt you in anyway. I did not mean to...

 My comment was also only based on people I know, I did not mean to make any judgement on girls in general. But the girls in particular are born and raised Ýzmir girls actually! I do have friends from the ´category´ you were referring to (this is all starting to get so generalising, but it is hard to talk without doing so), but they are all girls who have lived on their own during their studies or happen to be the girlfriends of my male friends  And ofcourse I do not take this experience in the back of my head when meeting new girls, I just know I was highly dissapointed that when in Ýzmir for a year, I did not have the freedom to speak as I thought or to call the girls and ask for something, without having the sense that they thought I am ´weird´.

Apologies accepted though they were not needed I wasn´t hurt or whatsoever, just thought that your response sounded a bit patronizing considering I was talking based on personal experience on very small scale. If I had the feeling that all girls are like I have come across so far, I would not feel so confident in establishing life in Turkey, because it would be very hard.

Good. It is indeed difficult to talk without making generalizations...