Living - working in Turkey |
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N.B.
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| 20. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 07:38 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: Quoting juliacernat:
Your boyfriend is displaying a double standard: It was OK for you to go to this club to meet each other but not OK for you to go now. But it is more than just a double standard. Before, you were just “a girl.†What you did would not reflect on him or his family honor. Now you are “his girl,†and your behavior will affect the honor of all women in his family.
It seems to me you have some serious issues to think about before you jump into the relationship lock, stock and barrel.
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Who is the author 'judging' in the above paragraphs and what does she base her argument on? Turks have one kind of family and that is conservative, is that right? Maybe this guy is a very jealous man belonging to a very modern family. Everyone is deemed innocent unless proven guilty.
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Does the author say that this jealous and 'double standard' behaviour is typical Turkish or exclusively Turkish? I don't read that, she just says that (some) men behave like this. And I think she's right. So why this defensiveness, Vineyards? No one says you're such a man.
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| 21. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 07:45 pm |
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| 22. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 07:52 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: If we rule out the "Turk" option what remains behind is still a stereotype sans cultural references. |
Of course it is a stereotype. But again, no one says it is about ALL men, just some. Or would you deny that?
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| 23. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 10:46 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: If we rule out the "Turk" option what remains behind is still a stereotype sans cultural references. |
Vineyards, I completely understand why you react like this when you read that Turkish men have double standards when it comes to what's ok to do for them vs their girlfriends/wifes/fiancees. I understand why something like this upsets you because you know that that's not the whole truth, yet you might get the impression that this is all that people might think of Turkish men. However, although this is not the whole truth, this is definitely part of it and you must trust that every person with half a brain will be (and is) aware of that. How do you react when you read about some single phenomenon from another culture? I'm sure you don't say "oh, those xxx are always yyy", and this is also how this article sounds to a foreign ear. Even if it is a stereotype, it's not a made-up stereotype, it is true for some group of Turkish people. Many people confirmed that they've witnessed such behavior as well as they witnessed a different kind of behavior.
Maybe we don't write about cultural differences in the best possible way, in a way that wouldn't leave it go guessing whether it's the whole truth or just part of it (especially for those who don't know anything about the culture in question from other sources). We usually have to end up defending our cultures saying 'that's not all there is'. However, you can trust that people here are more educated about Turkey then an average person is.
I guess my point is that even though it's upsetting to read such things about your culture, you may consider that this is both part of the reality as well as people reading it are aware that this is only a 'part'.
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| 24. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 11:46 pm |
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Catwoman, I'm really impressed by the way you put this. Very well said and very fair.
Being Swiss the reactions here sometimes seem to be exaggerated to me, but I know it is only another kind of cultural difference... Swiss people tend to make themselves less in every aspect than they are, we don't boast with our culture. It can be difficult for us to bear those reactions sometimes, but on the other hand they are the expression of something beautiful, the love for someone's own country and culture...
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| 25. |
03 Apr 2007 Tue 11:49 pm |
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i agree with you and catwoman also..i'm sure everyone with half a brain here is aware that steroetypes dont count for everyone from a particular race 
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| 26. |
04 Apr 2007 Wed 12:56 am |
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| 27. |
04 Apr 2007 Wed 02:36 am |
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Thank you Aica and Robyn  .
Vineyards - yes, a person is a measure of everything, BUT don't let this quote make you self righteous instead of trying to learn, understand and communicate. Don't just ask us to understand YOU, but you also need to understand US, or whatever the other side of the conflict is, if you don't want to make it look like an 'us and them' situation.
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| 28. |
04 Apr 2007 Wed 04:36 am |
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| 29. |
04 Apr 2007 Wed 06:17 am |
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unfortunately, to me this doesn't feel like a conversation Vineyards, but more like your monologues... you really should try to listen a bit more and not just expect everybody to agree with you.
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| 30. |
04 Apr 2007 Wed 01:04 pm |
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