"All of us have done some things, some time, that we were told as children not to do. Or some of us do things on the holiday abroad we would not do at home. The number of Turks who have told me that when they went to Germany, England, America or Australia, they ate pork! They went to a bar! They had a drink! They went on a date with a foreigner! And so on…

We all know the expression when the cat’s away, the mice will play. When we come back home, or the cat comes home, so to say, things are different. I have received a few letters that ask the same question in a different way. Let me share one of them. It reads:

Dear Charlotte: I met my Turkish boyfriend in a bar when he was studying in my country. Since he has returned to Turkey, he calls me every night. We plan to marry and live in Turkey. One night when he called I was down at the bar with my girlfriends. The same bar where we met each other. When he realized that I was at the bar he got very angry. He jumped to conclusions and exclaimed that Europeans are too laid back about things and he told me that he does not want me to go to the bar without him. I still want my independence and I want him to be OK about this. He needs to trust me. Signed, Confused.

Dear Confused: There are two things going on here: one is called protection and possession and the other is known as a double standard. Your boyfriend believes he should be there to protect you from other guys who may approach you. In his culture a woman or group of women going to a bar unescorted, by at least one male, be it a man or younger brother, is not common. They must be “looking for fun.”

Have you heard of a double standard? Wikipedia defines a double standard as a standard applied more leniently to one group than to another. For example, the belief that it is permissible for teenage boys, but not teenage girls, to engage in premarital sex is a double standard. While double standards are generally condemned in the abstract, they are also very common. A double standard violates the principle of impartiality -- not everything goes for everyone. There is a fine line between double standard and hypocrisy. If a man believes it is his right to have extramarital affairs but that his wife does not have such a right, he holds a double standard. A man who condemns all adultery while maintaining a mistress is a hypocrite.

Your boyfriend is displaying a double standard: It was OK for you to go to this club to meet each other but not OK for you to go now. But it is more than just a double standard. Before, you were just “a girl.” What you did would not reflect on him or his family honor. Now you are “his girl,” and your behavior will affect the honor of all women in his family.

It seems to me you have some serious issues to think about before you jump into the relationship lock, stock and barrel.

Human beings want to be trusted and crave intimacy: Everyone needs to love and be loved. This is true of single culture relationships and is still true of cross cultural relationships. Because of the extra need to understand where each other are coming from, cross-cultural relationships need extra time and effort".

Charlotte McPherson, "Met in the Bar!If you love me you will trust me", Today`s Zaman, 16.03.2007

I bet that story will ring true in many ears.

to be,seem like and to suppose,they all so different things.and thats certain there r many deep differences between life stilies and cultures.so i think the most important thing to recogize reasons of differences for to judging diferences

that post is soo true like when u met you can be sure he liked you in the nice, fitted clothes you wore, but now he thinks u are mother theresa ..yeh right

Well girls, I don't like the double-standard as well. On the other hand, we have an idiom in Turkish ' Vurun abalıya!'. I think what you are doing with your posts here suits to this idiom. I will not translate the idiom, but if you give a try yourselves to translate it,then you will understand what Turkish men feel after reading your posts in this thread.

Vur abalıya! Jump on him while he´s down! (a reproach).

please find below the continuation of the article:


"[...] lots of people want to understand better what a healthy relationship should be like.
Correspondents are unsure whether a characteristic they see in their partner and do not like is “cultural” or a “personal trait.” This works both ways; sometimes they are a non-Turk with a Turkish loved one, sometimes vice versa.

Writer Hara Estroff Marano has researched many sources and questioned many experts on this subject, thus culling some basic relationship rules. I came across these recently and thought they would be very helpful. The first I want to share with you is what I might term a “Golden Rule.”

If you don’t understand or like something your partner is doing, ask about it and why he or she is doing it. Talk and explore, don’t assume.
Talking together about how such and such a behavior is surprising for you, is it normal in his/her culture, etc. can help solve many misunderstandings.

Another pearl of wisdom from Marano is:

Solve problems as they arise. Don’t let resentments simmer.

If you wait until you have a whole list of issues then you will probably be past solving them! Either you will be so angry that you cannot talk together calmly and respectfully, or the behavior/attitude will be so engrained the other will be unable to change.

And if the problem is not raised by you, but your partner raises a problem they have with you, what does Marano advise?

Listen, truly listen, to your partner’s concerns and complaints without judgment. Empathy is crucial. Look at things from your partner’s perspective as well as your own.

Here are a few more of Marano’s ideas: They are universal, but will be influenced by culture. I suggest you print these rules off and work through them.

Choose a partner wisely and well. Evaluate a potential partner as you would a friend -- look at their character, personality, values, their generosity of spirit, the relationship between their words and actions, their relationships with others.

Know your partner’s beliefs about relationships. Make sure your ideas don’t conflict.

Know your needs and speak up for them clearly. Closeness cannot occur without honesty. Your partner is not a mind reader.

Respect, respect, respect. Mutual respect is essential to a good relationship.

View yourselves as a team, which means you are two unique individuals bringing different perspectives and strengths. That is the value of a team: your differences.

Know how to manage differences; this is the key to success in a relationship.

Learn to negotiate. Modern relationships no longer rely on roles cast by culture.

Don’t rush things. If you need time to understand each other better, then take it. Far better to get married a few months later, totally sure you are committing yourself to the person you can love for the rest of your life, than to walk down the aisle quickly with your fingers crossed hoping for the best.

“The path of true love never did run smooth.” Working through issues will make you stronger people and enable your relationship to grow. If you genuinely love, you will trust!"


Charlotte McPherson, "He loves me....He loves me not...", Today's Zaman, 17.03.2007

Catwoman, I'm really impressed by the way you put this. Very well said and very fair.
Being Swiss the reactions here sometimes seem to be exaggerated to me, but I know it is only another kind of cultural difference... Swiss people tend to make themselves less in every aspect than they are, we don't boast with our culture. It can be difficult for us to bear those reactions sometimes, but on the other hand they are the expression of something beautiful, the love for someone's own country and culture...

i agree with you and catwoman also..i'm sure everyone with half a brain here is aware that steroetypes dont count for everyone from a particular race

Thank you Aica and Robyn .

Vineyards - yes, a person is a measure of everything, BUT don't let this quote make you self righteous instead of trying to learn, understand and communicate. Don't just ask us to understand YOU, but you also need to understand US, or whatever the other side of the conflict is, if you don't want to make it look like an 'us and them' situation.

unfortunately, to me this doesn't feel like a conversation Vineyards, but more like your monologues... you really should try to listen a bit more and not just expect everybody to agree with you.

To me this discussion is rather like the Turkish reading our newspapers, and thinking what they read reflects what is a normal way of life in Britain today. (In particular what I call the "gutter press" Daily Mirror, Sun, Daily Star - you know, the ones adorned with hugely inflated breasts and liposuctioned thighs aka Jordan)

And thinking that all British women have illegitimate children by four different fathers, we all live on social security, we are all racist, that we all love Tony Blair. That all women will have sex with any man walking, or that we have no morals. All men stay in the pub til' all hours and drink themselves to oblivion on a daily basis and they are all football holigans.

Judge the person you know as you know them and not on what you read about a nation.

Sorry if this has gone a little off track.................

I did say I had gone off track............. and I am implying that what you read is not always to be believed, I'll go back to sleep now