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fear, outrage, prejudice, indifference, silence and disguise
(37 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
1 2 [3] 4
20.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:54 pm

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you



Nooooooooooooo! Not in THAT way
In a warm, glowy, alcohol induced fuzzy kind of way

21.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 09:00 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you



Nooooooooooooo! Not in THAT way
In a warm, glowy, alcohol induced fuzzy kind of way



NOW I know what's been affecring you all this time

22.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 09:01 pm

Quoting peace train:

NOW I know what's been affecring you all this time



Yes
Being teetotal was bad for me

23.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:04 am

Quoting peace train:

She is right, there can be no justification for terror and indifference to it does absolutely nothing to counter it or solve the grave problems relating to it. I guess we have to ask ourselves why more and more people are becoming indifferent to their own national and also international issues.


24.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:25 am

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI

25.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 02:37 am

Quoting femme_fatal:

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI



"Never again" has been said over and over again. However your history in the youtube link is not exactly accurate femme....

"Iron Age (1200–330 BCE)
Pottery remains found in Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gat, Ekron and Gaza decorated with stylized birds provided the first archaeological evidence for Philistine settlement in the region. The Philistines are credited with introducing iron weapons and chariots to the local population.

Developments in Palestine between 1250 and 900 BCE have been the focus of debate between those who accept the Old Testament version on the conquest of Canaan by the Israelite tribes, and those who reject it. Niels Peter Lemche, of the Copenhagen School of Biblical Studies, submits that the picture of ancient Israel "is contrary to any image of ancient Palestinian society that can be established on the basis of ancient sources from Palestine or referring to Palestine and that there is no way this image in the Bible can be reconciled with the historical past of the region."

Palestine

The Egyptians called the area Retjenu

"In the 5th century BCE, the Greek historian and geographer Herodotus wrote in Greek of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê,'from which Latin: Palaestina and Palestine are derived,as "a district of Syria". Syria, at that time, referred rather imprecisely to the region north to south from Asia Minor to Sinai, and west to east from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf. The boundaries of the "distinct" described by Herodotus are even more imprecise, as is the ethnic nature of its people; sometimes it denotes the coast north of Mount Carmel, and elsewhere it seems to extend down all the coast from Phoenicia to Egypt, and as far east as the Jordan River.[15] Josephus used the name Παλαιστινη generally for the smaller coastal area anciently inhabited by the Philistines, which most of his contemporaries prefer to call Philistia. Ptolemy also used the term. In Latin, Pliny mentions a region of Syria that was "formerly called Palaestina" among the areas of the Eastern Mediterranean.[17] Philo uses the terms Palaestina and Canaan interchangeably, noting that the region's Jewish population is larger than that of any other single country."

Palestine

26.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 02:51 am

I need to read more, seriously, I do.

27.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:33 am

Quoting femme_fatal:

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI


Here we go again

I watched half of it and decided it was enough!!
Because if the first half is completely wrong the probability of other half being wrong is very high..

It is totaly waste of time!!

Full of lies, full of ignorance about the historical facts.
First of all..all that rubbish about 'ah..But it is our promised land, Look at the book' IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH..
That book is written god knows when.. We are living in 2000s.
The claim that 'it is a promised land' is laughable!!

The second is about what was it like under ottoman era, I mean the end of it:

Apperantly there were 350.000 people in 1850 and they were 85% Muslims, 11% Christians and 4% Jews.

According to Ottoman records : the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

So 'ah. Jews were always over there and palestine was not arab' is FALSE!!!

Source from wiki
Of course at this stage Balfour Declaration of 1917 should be mentioned (it is all fault of british in the first place!!). Though it was british giving support of national home for jews at the time, when they needed jews support badly -both politically and scientifically- during the WWI.

And a state was never mentioned in the first place!!!

again from wiki:
One of the main proponents of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was Dr. Chaim Weizmann, the leading spokesman for organized Zionism in Britain. Weizmann was a chemist who had developed a process to synthesize acetone via fermentation. Acetone is required for the production of cordite, a powerful propellant explosive needed to fire ammunition without generating tell-tale smoke. Germany had cornered supplies of calcium acetate, a major source of acetone. Other pre-war processes in Britain were inadequate to meet the increased demand in World War I, and a shortage of cordite would have severely hampered Britain's war effort. Lloyd-George, then Minister for Munitions, was grateful to Weizmann and so supported his Zionist aspirations.

During the first meeting between Weizmann and Balfour in 1906, Balfour asked what payment Weizmann would accept for use of his process and was told, "There is only one thing I want: A national home for my people." Balfour asked Weizmann why Palestine — and Palestine alone — should be the Zionist homeland. "Anything else would be idolatry", Weizmann protested, adding: "Mr. Balfour, supposing I was to offer you Paris instead of London, would you take it?" "But Dr. Weizmann", Balfour retorted, "we have London", to which Weizmann rejoined, "That is true, but we had Jerusalem when London was a marsh."[4]

Weizmann eventually received both monetary compensation for his discovery and his place in history as first President of the state of Israel.


Basically 'legal documentations, our book , promised land etc' are simply NOT TRUE!!.

It is a land stolen from the arabs!!

And about the suicide bombings , terrorism etc.

I think i gave the figures before about which side killed most childeren and civilians.

What is hapening there is a STATE TERRORISM by isreal.

First it should be stopped and I am sure the others will stop too.

Femme, I will hit you on the head with the book of 'The great civilisation' by Robert Fisk when I see you next time..

28.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:40 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpw-h6WY8As

handsom, will you dump femme for me?

29.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:44 am

Quoting catwoman:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpw-h6WY8As

handsom, will you dump femme for me?


Oh god..
Pm me regarding this please

30.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:44 am

Coming to Terms with Deir Yassin
Presented by the PEACE Middle East Dialog Group

Each side in the Mid-East has its own history of horrors, and is all too eager to point the finger of blame at the other side. If we are ever to make peace then each side must first point the finger of blame at itself, come to terms with its own conscience, and apologize for the lost lives, the lost loved ones, the dread and the sorrow we have inflicted on each other.

The bloody Palestinian-Israeli struggle over Jerusalem began in December 1947. The Arabs did not accept U.N. Resolution 181, of November 29, 1947. The resolution called for internationalization of Jerusalem and partition of Palestine into two states. Riots, and soon after that, fighting, broke out in Jerusalem and neighboring villages, and along the road to Jerusalem, where Arab irregulars tried to impose a blockade of Jewish Jerusalem.

As the months went by, the danger to Jewish Jerusalem, and the shortage of supplies, became increasingly acute. The Jewish population was under siege and demoralized. The Haganah defenders attempted repeatedly to open the road to Jerusalem, and succeeded in getting a bare minimum of supplies to the beleaguered populace at great sacrifice. The revisionist Irgun and Lehi armed groups remained separate from the Haganah and Jewish Agency control for quite a long period, because the revisionists claimed that Ben-Gurion and the mainstream Zionist leadership were prepared to accept internationalization of Jerusalem. Until April 9, 1948, the Irgun and Lehi had engaged in no actual combat in Jerusalem, other than terror attacks. Their popularity waned as the Haganah and Palmach became increasingly active in defense of the city.

On April 9, 1948, the Irgun and Lehi attacked the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, which had had a peace pact with its Jewish neighbors, and massacred over a hundred noncombatants. This act had no significance in the defense of Jerusalem, and may have brought great harm by forming the motivation for subsequent Arab massacres. It has become a rallying point for hatred of Israel and Zionism.

There are several Deir Yassin memorial Web sites by Palestinian organizations and Arabs. This is only such site assembled by an Israeli and a Zionist, and to my knowledge it is the most comprehensive and most thoroughly researched one. This site includes following materials, some of which are original articles, others are translations appearing for the first time:

Deir Yassin - The Evidence

Comments by Readers

It is long past time for Israeli Zionists, like myself, to apologize. The Israeli government has never apologized for the massacre of Deir Yassin, though the Jewish Agency apologized to King Abdullah in April 1948. The perpetrators of the massacre at Deir Yassin were never punished, though there was a great hue and cry at the time. Victims were never offered compensation. Therefore, and as long as this is true, the massacre at Deir Yassin has become the dubious moral property of all Zionists. We cannot sit back and say 'this was the fault of the revisionists.' The massacre at Deir Yassin may have set the pattern for much similar behavior throughout the War of Independence. A similar massacre, by dissident troops incorporated in the IDF, occurred later at Al-Dawayima, near Hebron. Other massacres by the IDF are well documented as well. If we Israelis believe that we are a moral society, then we owe it to ourselves to face the past.

Deir Yassin: The History of the Conflict as Mass Psychosis
Equally, it is wicked to trade on the misery of past history in order to create new misery. The events at Deir Yassin were the doings of individuals in time of battle. Some Zionists perpetrated bad deeds, but that does not delegitimize the Zionist cause and those deeds should not be used to delegitimize Zionism and Israel. The massacre at Deir Yassin was not planned. It was not part of a Zionist "plot" to expel the Arabs of Palestine. Nobody ordered the massacre, and the mainstream Zionist leadership in Tel Aviv did not know about the attack in advance or order it as far as we can judge. Further commentary about Deir Yassin and the abuse of history in the conflict is here - Deir Yassin: The History of the Conflict as Mass Psychosis.

The Deir Yassin Massacre was not the beginning of massacres in Palestine, nor did the Jews begin the massacres. In 1920, 1921, 1929 and from 1936 to 1939 Arabs rioted and massacred Jewish civilians in pogroms and terrorist raids. In January of 1948, Arab villagers ambushed a convoy sent to the besieged Etzion Bloc. They murdered every one of its 35 members, and mutilated their bodies. All these massacres took place long before the attack on Deir Yassin. Time and again, Arab "civilians" had proven that there were no noncombatants in the fight. They proved it both by participation of their own villagers in blockading roads and attacking vehicles and settlements, and by their own disregard for Jewish civilians. It was this history, rather than any sinister Zionist plot, which formed the background and motivation for the Deir Yassin massacre. ( see - A history of Zionism and the creation of Israel ). At the very least, we need to acknowledge that some guilt lies on both sides, and that the "tradition" of massacres did not start with the Jews.

The material at this site is not ‘Arab propaganda’ or "anti-Zionist propaganda." It was researched and written by Zionists who are concerned about the moral image of our state. We cannot bring back the dead. We can tell the truth, offer our sincere apologies, and learn the lesson of Deir Yassin and teach it to our children.

Deir Yassin Revisited
Since the above was written, the sides in the Middle East have been busy creating new Deir Yassins. Since September 2000, over 300 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, and about 40 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians. Some were Palestinian terrorists, some were Israeli settlers and soldiers. Some, like 12 year old boy killed apparently by Israelis, or like the tiny Arab-Israeli girl wounded in a bus explosion in Hadera, or several reporters wounded or killed by Israelis, were innocent bystanders. This new violence will not bring us closer to a solution. It will only engender more Deir Yassins. We have not learned the lessons of Deir Yassin. Those who do not study history are condemned to relive it.
........................................................
The 1948 Massacre at Deir Yassin Revisited

http://www.deiryassin.org/mh2001.html

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