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Progressive Muslim Women
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| 20. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:19 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting Daydreamer: So it's the same in Poland. Women Prime Minister Poland vs Turkey 1:1  |
As I said, the equivalence of prime minister in Turkey is president in most of the other countries including Poland, because in Poland the president is chosen directly by people. So its still 1:0 |
Actually you said people choose the party, not the person. So it is the same 
Turks choose the party
Poles choose the party
Turkish Party appoints the Prime Minister
Polish Party appoints the Prime Minister
It is exactly the same. If prime Minister in Turkey was subject to public elections, the matter would be different
Still 1:1 to me |
It`s not exactly the same. The difference is, The poles have never voted for a woman for the uppermost position the y could elect. The Turks did.
and voting for the party or its leader doesn`t make any difference, at least in Turkey. Baykal for example has been the leader of CHP since the 80`s. It`s a static situation, it doesn`t change.
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| 21. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:23 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
That's all nice and well, but I'm ashamed to say that such a progressive country as the Netherlands, has never had a female prime minister  We may have a queen, but that is just a formality, so no woman has ever had the political power. There is even a party (SGP) that doesn't allow women to be a full member. The Netherlands stopped financially supporting this party because it doesnt give women the same rights as men. As a reaction, they made a declaration, but again the political power remained in the hands of men. I can't believe such a thing is possible. Their ideology is to make a theocracy of the Netherlands |
See - that means you are not as progressive as Turkey! Shame on you!
Theocracy? Tell me about it, that's what our former government was about to introduce. Luckily for Poland, it ended with earlier elections. Still, we have some nice things to reminiscence, Tinky Winky (a Teletubby) was recognised gay by our spokesperson of children's rights, minister of education wanted to forbid teaching about Darwinism at schools and use creationism for that purpose. Oh, sweet gone days Now it's more normal but less funny
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| 22. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:30 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Oh, sweet gone days Now it's more normal but less funny |
Hehe Well it will never get that far in the Netherlands, after all we are the kingdom of prostitution, drugs and homosexuality. And I can't be anything else but proud of it
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| 23. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:30 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika:
It`s not exactly the same. The difference is, The poles have never voted for a woman for the uppermost position the y could elect. The Turks did.
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How did they do it? You said yourself that people, common citizens, vote for a party. So, unless you go to elections and put an x next to a name of a woman who is on a list among names of men, you don't vote directly for her.
If there is a party ABC and they give you 5 candidates to choose the Prime Minister from, say,
Mr D
Mr E
Mr F
Ms G
Mr H
and, you and all other citizens elect Ms G then, yes, you did elect a woman in general elections. But, if your voting list looks like
Party ABC
Party IJK
Party LMN
Party OPQ
Party RST
and you put an x next to a party whose leader happens to be a woman, then you don't choose a woman in general elections, you choose a party.
How clear was it?
Ahm..btw, you don't choose president in general elections? So, you, meaning an individual citizen, get to vote only for a party and they choose everything else themselves? What about Parliamentary Elections? Do you vote for names or parties?
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| 24. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:36 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
Hehe Well it will never get that far in the Netherlands, after all we are the kingdom of prostitution, drugs and homosexuality. And I can't be anything else but proud of it |
Oh you, the capital of moral decay (reads DK ). And you are the authors of Een Bussie Vol Met Polen. How can anybody dislike your way?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5qvQ_2nsVtk&feature=related
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| 26. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:46 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
But... Busik pełny Polaków, not my style  |
Really? I was laughing my head off when I heard it Not my choice of music but I found that funny (probably because I don't understand the lyrics hahahahah)
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| 27. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:48 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting tamikidakika:
It`s not exactly the same. The difference is, The poles have never voted for a woman for the uppermost position the y could elect. The Turks did.
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How did they do it? You said yourself that people, common citizens, vote for a party. So, unless you go to elections and put an x next to a name of a woman who is on a list among names of men, you don't vote directly for her.
If there is a party ABC and they give you 5 candidates to choose the Prime Minister from, say,
Mr D
Mr E
Mr F
Ms G
Mr H
and, you and all other citizens elect Ms G then, yes, you did elect a woman in general elections. But, if your voting list looks like
Party ABC
Party IJK
Party LMN
Party OPQ
Party RST
and you put an x next to a party whose leader happens to be a woman, then you don't choose a woman in general elections, you choose a party.
How clear was it?
Ahm..btw, you don't choose president in general elections? So, you, meaning an individual citizen, get to vote only for a party and they choose everything else themselves? What about Parliamentary Elections? Do you vote for names or parties? |
We don`t vote for the representatives either individually, They are choosen by the party you`re voting for. your vote just determines how many of them will get into the parliement.
and as for choosing the prime minister, it doesn`t make any difference to vote for them directly or for their parties. When you vote for a party, you know that the leader of the party will be prime minister if the party gets enough votes. People vote for AKP to make Tayyip prime minister for example not someone who works as an accountant in AKP. If you don`t want to see the party leader as prime minister, you simply don`t vote for that party. That`s that simple.
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| 28. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:51 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer:
Really? I was laughing my head off when I heard it Not my choice of music but I found that funny |
It is rather denigrating, making fun of 'Poles who rent another house with an entire group and just come here for beer and a few quid'.
But yeah, about the music, more than it shows their shortsighted view, it shows the Dutch' incompetence of making good music
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| 29. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:53 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika:
and as for choosing the prime minister, it doesn`t make any difference to vote for them directly or for their parties. When you vote for a party, you know that the leader of the party will be prime minister if the party gets enough votes. People vote for AKP to make Tayyip prime minister for example not someone who works as an accountant in AKP. |
So that's the difference I was talking about - you didn't elect a woman because she was a woman, or because of her skills, qualities or whatever, you elected a party. The same way Polish Prime Minister gets elected - you choose a party and they elect one of them Prime Minister. It is impossible to compare it to presidential elections as in case of president, you vote for a name. And in Turkey you never vote for a name, thus never voting for a man or a woman. If you still cannot see a difference between direct and indirect voting systems, I'm sorry, I can't get any clearer.
Still, I see no point in debating over female prime ministers/presidents. Like DK said - the Netherlands never had one and it's really hard to consider her homeland not a progressive country
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| 30. |
21 Jun 2008 Sat 12:56 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
It is rather denigrating, making fun of 'Poles who rent another house with an entire group and just come here for beer and a few quid'.
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It is true in 90% cases (you don't really think Poles go there for the love of language), so why should anyone get offended? I wouldn't be surprised if that song played in Polish clubs
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