General/Off-topic |
|
|
|
|
|
13th Anniversary of the Bosnian Genocide
|
| 20. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 10:26 am |
|
What's going on? I posted this today:
Quoting Daydreamer: Guys, read more carefully, 2 posts above I gave my reasons for such a statement.
Quoting Daydreamer:
Not really, communistic crimes are also recognised by the west and communistic countries, like USSR although were to be ideologically atheistic had Christian minorities . Russia is accused of extermination of Chechens (Muslims) and Kazakhs (Muslims) and it's admitted wide and loud (of course Russia doesn't admit it following the trend of "We didn't do it") |
Ouch! Ok, I know where the mistake is - I didn't mean "minorities" but "majority" - SORRY! That created the confusion. The thing is communism wanted to achieve atheistic society but they failed.
ZZ, the number of Orthodox Christians in contemporary Russia is 90% so it's not really a small number.
Sorry for the mess, I guess I'm not so logical in the morning  Still, the point I made is valid.
|
and it displayed as if posted yesterday  SPOOKY
Thus, my argument is not messy - Tamidakkika wanted example of a country with Christian majority committing a recognised genocide on non-Christians. Russia fits here. The thing is, no countries in Europe are officially "Christian" (but for Vatican I suppose). Still, crimes of war are punishable (Milosevic's case and many more). Saying that the world only recognises Muslim crimes is silly, like in case of Armenian genocide, not all countries (Christian in your understanding) recognised it. Weren't you the one commenting proudly on Swedish decision to leave it to historians not politicians to decide whether it did or didn't take place?
Really, your conspiracy theories are moving, but, fortunately, find no evidence in real life. Perhaps you'd like to see Europe as fierce enemy of poor Turkey and Muslim countries but it's not.
|
|
| 21. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 02:37 pm |
|
I can see the difficulty Tamikidakika is facing in this thread. (It is very common between Turkish diplomats or Turks living abroad)
When you are talking about the massacre (or genocide) in Bosnia, you have to be prepared to answer questions about the kurds and 'but our is terrorism' is not a good answer. You should be able to explain how thousands of Kurds died (I remember giving the values before: around 40.000 total, ~6.000 armed forces/police ~6.000 civilians the rest is terrorist- in many cases, civilians counted as terrorists-, thousands of unexplained disapeances).
Not only on this case, but we should be explain the 'foreign countries supporting the terrorism' and the support we have been giving to Chechens and general Dostum in Afghanistan.
The other difficult one for example is about Cyprus. We insist that there should be two state solution because the Turkish minority wants it but at the same time when someone talks about Kurdish minority rights or federation or two state solution about the Kurdish problem we put them in jail.(It does not mean that I see two state solution or federation as a solution to our Kurdish problem. I am just simply trying to show the hypocracy here)
Anyway,
I will go with the original thread and condemn the massacre or genocide(whatever it is called and I don't care much to be honest)
It was simply a treacherous slaughter to kill unarmed men because they had different ethnicity or religion.
It happened in the middle of Europe; it happened in front our eyes; it happened in recent times.
I think this event is a huge shame and it will always stay as a shameful dark spot in Europe's history.
|
|
| 22. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 02:41 pm |
|
Words of wisdom from Thehandsom as always 
It is a tragedy just as any death is. Wars are dreadful and nobody can state the otherwise. We can only hope the Balkan Melting Pot will come to peace finally and such things will never happen again. I'd hate to see any more Serbs, Bosniaks, Russians or Afghans die
|
|
| 23. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 04:19 pm |
|
Quoting thehandsom: I can see the difficulty Tamikidakika is facing in this thread. (It is very common between Turkish diplomats or Turks living abroad)
When you are talking about the massacre (or genocide) in Bosnia, you have to be prepared to answer questions about the kurds and 'but our is terrorism' is not a good answer. You should be able to explain how thousands of Kurds died (I remember giving the values before: around 40.000 total, ~6.000 armed forces/police ~6.000 civilians the rest is terrorist- in many cases, civilians counted as terrorists-, thousands of unexplained disapeances).
Not only on this case, but we should be explain the 'foreign countries supporting the terrorism' and the support we have been giving to Chechens and general Dostum in Afghanistan.
The other difficult one for example is about Cyprus. We insist that there should be two state solution because the Turkish minority wants it but at the same time when someone talks about Kurdish minority rights or federation or two state solution about the Kurdish problem we put them in jail.(It does not mean that I see two state solution or federation as a solution to our Kurdish problem. I am just simply trying to show the hypocracy here)
Anyway,
I will go with the original thread and condemn the massacre or genocide(whatever it is called and I don't care much to be honest)
It was simply a treacherous slaughter to kill unarmed men because they had different ethnicity or religion.
It happened in the middle of Europe; it happened in front our eyes; it happened in recent times.
I think this event is a huge shame and it will always stay as a shameful dark spot in Europe's history.
|
Kurt, Cecen, Kibrisli, Rum, Afgan corba ettin ciktin avrupali`ya yaranicam diye ben bunun nesine cevap vereyim.
|
|
| 24. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 04:30 pm |
|
Quoting Daydreamer: I'd hate to see any more Serbs, Bosniaks, Russians or Afghans die |
how about the Iraqis? Are they fine to be killed by the Poles?
|
|
| 25. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 04:45 pm |
|
Quoting tamikidakika:
Kurt, Cecen, Kibrisli, Rum, Afgan corba ettin ciktin avrupali`ya yaranicam diye ben bunun nesine cevap vereyim. |
I will really appreciate if you dont pull it to personal level. You can not say any logical, single reason why I should be sucking up Europeans or why I need to.
The topic is Bosnia and the Srebrenica and I was trying to put my penny worth of thoughts into it..
That is all..
|
|
| 26. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 04:48 pm |
|
Quoting thehandsom: Quoting tamikidakika:
Kurt, Cecen, Kibrisli, Rum, Afgan corba ettin ciktin avrupali`ya yaranicam diye ben bunun nesine cevap vereyim. |
I will really appreciate if you dont pull it to personal level. You can not say any logical, single reason why I should be sucking up Europeans or why I need to.
The topic is Bosnia and the Srebrenica and I was trying to put my penny worth thoughts into it..
That is all.. |
what kind of response were you expecting when comparing the pkk terrorism to the Cyprus issue in such an irrelevant manner?
|
|
| 27. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 05:01 pm |
|
Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting tamikidakika:
Kurt, Cecen, Kibrisli, Rum, Afgan corba ettin ciktin avrupali`ya yaranicam diye ben bunun nesine cevap vereyim. |
I will really appreciate if you dont pull it to personal level. You can not say any logical, single reason why I should be sucking up Europeans or why I need to.
The topic is Bosnia and the Srebrenica and I was trying to put my penny worth thoughts into it..
That is all.. |
what kind of response were you expecting when comparing the pkk terrorism to the Cyprus issue in such an irrelevant manner? |
Well
At least you could try to explain why they can NOT be related for example rather than what you posted..
|
|
| 28. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 05:15 pm |
|
Quoting thehandsom: Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting tamikidakika:
Kurt, Cecen, Kibrisli, Rum, Afgan corba ettin ciktin avrupali`ya yaranicam diye ben bunun nesine cevap vereyim. |
I will really appreciate if you dont pull it to personal level. You can not say any logical, single reason why I should be sucking up Europeans or why I need to.
The topic is Bosnia and the Srebrenica and I was trying to put my penny worth thoughts into it..
That is all.. |
what kind of response were you expecting when comparing the pkk terrorism to the Cyprus issue in such an irrelevant manner? |
Well
At least you could try to explain why they can NOT be related for example rather than what you posted..
|
why? the first and foremost reason is because Turkey had every right to intervene in Cyprus when the Greeks attempted the genocide the Turks in the island. This right was given to Turkey by the agreements signed between Britain, Greece and Turkey. It was the Greeks who divided the Island not the Turks. Is there such an agreement signed for the Kurds?
The second reason is there has never been a Kurdish state before. What today you call "Kurdish" was called Iranian 1000 years ago, and there is already a state called Iran. What if those who live in Sivas start saying "we are Sivasians we are a different ethnicity"? Get over it, Kurds are just Iranians. the romantic and foolish propaganda that "the Kurds are the only nation without a state" is a big lie. They have a state, its called iran, and the borders are wide open.
|
|
| 29. |
13 Jul 2008 Sun 05:43 pm |
|
Quoting tamikidakika:
why? the first and foremost reason is because Turkey had every right to intervene in Cyprus when the Greeks attempted the genocide the Turks in the island. This right was given to Turkey by the agreements signed between Britain, Greece and Turkey. It was the Greeks who divided the Island not the Turks. Is there such an agreement signed for the Kurds?
The second reason is there has never been a Kurdish state before. What today you call "Kurdish" was called Iranian 1000 years ago, and there is already a state called Iran. What if those who live in Sivas start saying "we are Sivasians we are a different ethnicity"? Get over it, Kurds are just Iranians. the romantic and foolish propaganda that "the Kurds are the only nation without a state" is a big lie. They have a state, its called iran, and the borders are wide open. |
I completely agree with you in Cyprus.
But I would not call Kurds as Iranians because they are not.
But I was trying to point at the hypocracy there.
Diplomatically, we are trying to make the world believe that 'two state solution' is the best for the situations like Cyprus because there are 'two different ethnic groups' and they are unable to live together (or one group -turks- is saying that 'they dont want to').
But if someone in Kurds comes up and says "'two different ethnic groups' and 'we are unable to live together" we put that person in jail Or if a country says it, we threaten them with the sanctions.
Anyway..we are moving away from the topic now.
|
|
| 30. |
14 Jul 2008 Mon 09:10 am |
|
Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting Daydreamer: I'd hate to see any more Serbs, Bosniaks, Russians or Afghans die |
how about the Iraqis? Are they fine to be killed by the Poles? |
Of course not! Where did you get that idea from? Was I to list all nationalities to avoid ambiguity? Ok, let me be more precise and rephrase
I'd hate to see ANY representatives of ANY nations die.
I hope that will leave you no doubt that I condemn killings rather that justify it.
|
|
|
