but don´t you think that one of the reasons that makes Turkey one of the greatest tourest magnet is not only the geografical and historical places but  the people and their politness and hospitality

oh yes Turkey is cheap country. any questions?

I agree with you when you talk about "the good old day" this expression we hear every where and everytime. But please let me disasgree with your other remarks.

 

and do you realy think that its a cheep country????

 Cheap is all relative! 

 

I love your selection of colours and I must go read it all again

 

Hospitality?  Someone meniton above, I have found nothing but very generous hospitality!  The hotel is just to sleep and perhaps to eat breakfast in.

The British:

 

People mostly got married in June.  Because they had their yearly bath in the month of May, in June they started smelling bad and for the purpose of stopping a bad smell emanating from their bodies, brides carried a bouquet in their hands

 

 

Yearly bath....what?

 

 

Yearly bath....what?

 

ONCE UPON A TIME…

 

The British:

 

People mostly got married in June.  Because they had their yearly bath in the month of May, in June they started smelling bad and for the purpose of stopping a bad smell emanating from their bodies, brides carried a bouquet in their hands.

 

 

From this I guess, the British did not bath often? Given the proliferation of hamams in Turkia, it seems the Ottomans bathed much more often than the British.

That´s not really surprising if we take into account the climate in the British Isles and that in the Mediterranean area

 

I think it was Queen Elisabeth I who was an advocate of hygiene and would always say she bathes every month whether she needs it or not

Thread about surprises..how lovelyRead this Caliksu...i hope u will be surprised too

we met with the Turanian civilisation more seriously and in fact, with four different cultures of it, the Tartar, the Turkish, the Cossack and the Muscovite. Each of these has influenced us in a different manner, in some instances quite successfully. Quite apart from the military contacts, which as a rule, protect against such influences, there was a time in Poland when we were very attracted by the Turkish model. Turkey, with its strength was impressive, also with the affluence of the Ottoman court. Particularly in the XIX c. when we did not exist as a state, Turkey did not recognise the partition of Poland and received many of our emigres. Many Poles found lucrative employment in Turkey reaching quite high positions. It was then that Turkishness was in vogue. It was fashionable to dress in a Turkish manner and to blame our political demise on the lack of a strong military organisation in pre-partition Poland.

cited from Prof.Maciej Giertych lecture on culture))))

Well, it´s not only for that reason. You must realize that all of Turkey is not warm all the time. There are large areas that get quite cold.

 

For the Ottomans, I think it´s more accurate to attribute it to the Islamic religion. Muslims take a complete body cleansing (also called ghusl) on a regular schedule.

 welcome back, cafe

i just dont unerstand why cossacks and muscovites are included to this group?

 

and

how did giertych become a prof? amazing!

 thank you)))the lecture was on Turanian civilisation and its influence on Polish history

I´m trying to suss out how...

Thread about surprises..how lovelyRead this Caliksu...i hope u will be surprised too

we met with the Turanian civilisation more seriously and in fact, with four different cultures of it, the Tartar, the Turkish, the Cossack and the Muscovite. Each of these has influenced us in a different manner, in some instances quite successfully. Quite apart from the military contacts, which as a rule, protect against such influences, there was a time in Poland when we were very attracted by the Turkish model. Turkey, with its strength was impressive, also with the affluence of the Ottoman court. Particularly in the XIX c. when we did not exist as a state, Turkey did not recognise the partition of Poland and received many of our emigres. Many Poles found lucrative employment in Turkey reaching quite high positions. It was then that Turkishness was in vogue. It was fashionable to dress in a Turkish manner and to blame our political demise on the lack of a strong military organisation in pre-partition Poland.

cited from Prof.Maciej Giertych lecture on culture))))

Femme, I think she meant prof Maciej Giertych, the father of Roman The one who argued that the legend of The Dragon from Wawel was a proof for creationism

 

Alameda, yeah, that could be an explanation, especially that Islam originated in quite a warm climate

 gosh, of course, i know the famous clan of highly intelligent people.

im having fun with cafe´s post esp. when she quoted giertych so bravely

i still wonder how did he become a professor.

Well, it´s not only for that reason. You must realize that all of Turkey is not warm all the time. There are large areas that get quite cold.

 

For the Ottomans, I think it´s more accurate to attribute it to the Islamic religion. Muslims take a complete body cleansing (also called ghusl) on a regular schedule.

 people in anatolia region always bathed before they were called turks. its not tribes from central asia brought bath to turkey but on the contrary they learnt it there.

the same with arabs, they knew nothing about bath until they conquested (invaded, occupied) byzantine lands where they felt a touch of civilization.

 Did the Borats learn too, femme? 

  yes, they too learnt (centuries later) when they were caught by russians and forced into bania after tasting vodka

 Thank you for that informative and enlightening cultural exchange.  I now know everything about the Borats.  I watched that movie and now I am going to write a book.

 dont hesitate asking me any question, im here to help you any time to promote my glorious country. borats rule! every single civilization started up in my country.

 Boratistan.....the craddle of civilization! 

 absolutely correct !

i hereby nominate you, bed amerikan, a professor of history!

 blah blah blah, alameda.

yeah, i can imagine caravan robbers being so clean and bathing everyday in what? in sand?

 people in anatolia region always bathed before they were called turks. its not tribes from central asia brought bath to turkey but on the contrary they learnt it there.

the same with arabs, they knew nothing about bath until they conquested (invaded, occupied) byzantine lands where they felt a touch of civilization.

 Evidently you need to refresh your historic knowledge....

 

You have heard of the kervansary, also called hans, haven´t you?

 

The Seljuk Han in Anatolia  there are nice photographs of them here.

 
The phoenicians used to have hot baths in the city of Gadara.
Today, the archaeological site of ancient Gadara ajoins the Jordanian village of Um-

Qeis (http://research.haifa.ac.il/~mluz/gadara.folder/gadara2.html)

 

In my opinion, the bathing history has to do at the first place with the availability of water in order to bath no?

It is logical that the arabic tribes from the arabian peninsula (and that includes  the 2 christian tribes the Ghassanids and the Montherits) are not very much into regular bathing since they live in the desert and the scarce water they had was mostly used for drinking.

 

If anyone is interested here is the link to the history of bath http://www.soapguild.org/docs/public/HistoryOfTheBath.pdf

 what you talk is that its all are pre-islamic.

thank you.

 blah blah blah, alameda, you propaganda machine. what does it have to do with islam?

 

Your earlier message:

 

i can imagine caravan robbers being so clean and bathing everyday in what? in sand?

 I have given you the source where the caravan people bathed.

Regarding Islam, there are clear guidlines for cleanliness in Islam, as the kervansaray was an Islamic institution for trade, and a means to fulfill religious requirements, one of them being cleanliness, it relates to Islamic principals.  

blah blah blah, alameda. but there was no bath involved into this ritual. arabs among whom mohammed lived had no bath. they hardly had a drinking water.

blah blah blah alameda, you islamic propaganda machine.

 

The Christian world during that time did not bath regularly as they were ashamed to disrobe or touch their bodies.....thus used boquets of flowers and perfumes to cover the malodor caused by infrequent bathing.

are we talking about christian world? why did you shift the subject onto christian world? btw, it depends on which part of christian world you were talking about. bath was very popular within the romans and greeks.

hahaha, what does christianity have to do with this? why do you insist on saying about christian arabs (that i can count them on my fingers) in this thread? i just dont understand your obsession with christianity

 

Religion has nothing to do with bathing habits nevertheless Islam encouraged washing and bathing and it was adopted in the religeous rituals which is good.  The fact that muslims wash 5 times a day before prayer is something good and should be noted.

 

I just try to draw attention that we should not confound being an arab and being muslim. There are arab christians and i doubt you can count them on your fingers

Accordning to wikipedia there are 5 million arab christians  between syrian, iraq, lebanon and jordan. I donno how much there are in egypt, may be 3 millions.

 

they were unclean and still are thats my point. and tell this to alameda (to our islamic propaganda machine, who takes out of her pockets lots of lies)

 

May be they were not very clean when they didnt have enough water but I dont agree that they are unclean nowadays with their sea water desalinization plants.  The water consumption for example in saudia nowadays is between 200 and 280 liters per capita per day , a level similar to the US (again according to wikipedia). Basing ones opinion on facts is better than  basing it on emotions. They consume water for example more than the italians (110l/capita/day) so whether we like it or not by this standard they are clean and the italians are dirty

good point. tel this too to your friend alameda.

yes my friend i will tell her this

 Bathing was popular with the Romans and Greeks during the pagan times....it declined with the onset of Christianity.

buff, alameda, puff alameda gosh, wheres your proof and your link to that?

 

the reason we are talking about this is because we are discussing a specific time in history regarding the wedding flowers to mask the stench of body odors during the Ottoman times.

yet, im to look at this at a deeper angle

 

.....the Ottoman times were Islamic.

yes, whom from ottomans learnt bathing? from arabs?

 

The English during that time did not bath.

fine, by me.

The Ottoman Empire started in 1299.

oh, alameda, thank you. i didnt know this, you opened my eyes

Those years were known as the Dark Ages in Europe.

yes, those dark ages europe proved to be something else today than golden age islamic world

 

....  like rinsing inside nose  yuck, because demons were peeing inside there while you were sleeping), how to wash after sex, how to wash after menstruation, etc etc. actually the whole religion is about body, sex and zero spirituality, depending on what the messenger was obsessed with.

thank you again, for this opportunity.

 

 

 Actually, cleaning the nose is a very old practice that has been shown and documented health benefits......nasal irrigation

 

What were once called jinns are now called germs....

 

Here is another site with a video to show you how to do nasal irrigation, just in case you were looking.....

 guys..you knocked me down.. I am on the canvas....referee is counting....1...2...3

 How about this nice video from the Mayo Clinic on how to perform nasal lavage?

 How about this nice video from the Mayo Clinic on how to perform nasal lavage?

 

yes, arabs were so unclean that allah had to tell them how to wash themselves, because they didnt know. really, they were so barbaric and dumb that allah had to call a messenger to tell them the basic rules of washing

 

If i am not mistaken, there is nothing in the Quran mentioning HOW to wash yourself before prayer. All what is said is you is that you need to be clean. The HOW is set by "al sunnah"(the way and the manners of the prophet)

 

I cannot really understand why you make fun of islamic law concerning cleanliness and for example you dont make fun of jewish law concerning how to wash hands in accordance to jewish law before eating bread (here is a link if you are interested in knowing how http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-wash-hands-before-eating-bread-as-per-jewish-law-268159/)

 

shall we all make fun of jews because they have a law to set washing hand standards!!

we can all look at a certain religion and find some ritual to make fun of but what is the use, except for showing our hatred.

 

oh, well, those who have to live under islamic laws, act like muslims, dress like muslims, eat like muslims etc etc. theres no other option for them.

 

I am definite you havent visited lebanon, syria or jordan for coming up with such a statement. It is not true what you say  and I can bet on this.

seriously where do you come up with such ideas!!!

we go hunt wild pigs in lebanese mountains every year and if you havent tasted it I invite you to come over and check for youself. We do not dress following the islamic code.

 

 

you know its hot under those burkas, in order to be clean you have to wash yourself not only 5 times a day, but every hour in such hot areas.

 

Burkas came to the arab world from the east, pakistan afghanistan etc

The wife of Mohamad never covered her face, neither did all women during that time.

This was never an arabic tradition. They used to cover their heads but never the face.

Unfortunately we see all sorts of fanatism and hatred  nowadays, dont we!!

 sorry to butt in....this is really hard hitting argument in this fiery debate over cleaning...still on canvas!!!do not you think it is time for all to have a bath?with salt?reduces stress

 Mmmmmmmmmmmm  bath salts...sounds nice....

 

More on bathing....in case you wanted to know.....

 EVENTUALLY WE CAME FOR GRIPS)))Baths in UK-wonderful reminiscents...Baths in Turkey...wow..my bathtube and forest scent oil...wooowwwwwwww...double wowwwwwwww

thanx for educating me but as i underwent Polish educational system I ´m really versed on things

 

 

 why cant i have fun? are you offended? let us have fun. 

 

I am not offended at all but I do not think it is neither fun nor constructive to pick up on someone´s religion like this. Apparently that is not your opinion. 

 

and, why jews? why did you pick on jews again?

 

Unlike you, I do not pick up on any religion. I just said the jews as an example.

I can find you other examples from christianity, budhism, hinduism ... etc

 

  no wonder that life in the midle east is so wonderful that so many middle easterners immigrate to the west.

 

The most important reason for immigration, at least for lebanese, is the search for jobs since the market in Lebanon is limited.

Most of them go back on regular basis and when they retire they go back definitely, because life is wonderful there

Nowadays many french are immigrating to canada for the same reason.

This does not mean that life in europe is not wonderful and that is why people are leaving!

really, hunting on wild pigs doesnt impress me, its nothing to be proud of.

 

again this was an example that we do eat pork therefore we do not follow neither islamic nor jewish dietary regulations, and I agree with you that hunting is not good and should be abolished.

 

cedars, this is simply not true,

 

Mohamad´s wife khadija was a businesswomen and he worked for her in her trading business. She never wore burka and she used to deal with men in her business on a daily basis.

Another proof that face cover is not an islamic standard, during the pilgrimmage women are not face covered and pilgrimage is one of the pillars of islam.

  

yes, i agree, we hear of terror acts on non-muslims (and muslims too) almost everyday. yes, that religion is packed up with hatred and stupidity.

 

It is not religion, it is people, with their hatred  and verbal violence help promoting terror.

however i always enjoy dismissing her lies and yours too

I think this will be my last reply on this, I can see where this discussion is leading and i dont like to reach the level of personal insults. It is not in my middle eastern education nor upbringing.

 

 

i can have fun with alameda´s posts. i do enjoy dismissing her weak points

i do find her posts less constructive since all her goal is to promote islam (i mean smuggle islam) in a nice package. but there i come to save the naives  a super hero.

I donno how much there are in egypt, may be 3 millions