My last topic was removed. I guess I shold have toned down the language and not have used ´kicked ass´ to refer to Erdogan. Anyway. How do you guys feel about Erdogan striking back at the Davos. I thought it was very appropriate and to the point.

It wasn´t removed due to inappropriate language but due to the fact there are already 3 the same topics, why don´t you give your opinion there, like everybody else did?

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_38315

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_38352

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_38346

Respect !

Why do we need to have 4 threads about this topic?

 +100000 exactly my thoughts, but you were faster

sorry about that

i actually did not see any other topics on this issue.

I will look for them.

 Actually i think it deserve even more than that

Ý havent seen it thats why i´ve searched it, and here is his press conference for those who care to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvdzpN0eyMA

I have to confess i liked his attitude especially when he said to Peres "you know very well how to kill people" while he was looking at into Peres´s eyes. But then i remembered our PM´s hypocracy which made me dubious about his attitude. I know he wasnt sincere looking at his past. I wonder where he was while people were being killed in Iraq or while our citizens were being killed by terrorists. Btw AKP just rejected the proposal of comdemning Israel in parliament. Only this one is enough about his sincerety. Lets see if he is able to cancel military agreements with Israel. As far as i know Israeli pilots who were bombing Gaza are being trained in Turkey/Konya.

Then his reaction to Peres comes while Turkey is on the eve of elections which was a good show to impress sheeps and it seems its working. Another aspect of this reaction, he also tried to affect Arabs, maybe he wants to be the new slave khalif. With his idiomatic expression "bir taþla beþ kuþ" ...

So people wants to see some actions then a show of rowdiness maybe ...

Ýt is understandable that countries care more for their own interests first.

Sometimes by doing stupid things and sometimes by doing good things that get credit from many sides.

And i guess that is what Erdoðan did, and he has gained and still gaining credit from many sides, and on the top of that list is his own people !

Then comes the people of the countries around him .

He is winning people´s hearts ..

Yes, he wants to impress the Arabs today to use them tomorrow, and they wont mind it, on the contrary they will encourage him too...he already won their hearts !

Let me tell you...you have one a hell of a smart -strong too- man back there !

 if you listen to canli, we need 40 of them. not just for 4.

but when someone starts a thread on christmas she comes out with a warning that there was already an existing thread.

logiscs dont work on this site. welcome to canli´s regime a la egypt.

The question would be, what would you expect to happen in the near future.

Ý mean the most powerful country in the world doesnt dare to annoye israel or even condemn it for anything even when its hands full of blood

But Erdoðan did it....!

And i dont think israel will let it go that smoothly as Perese call Erdoðan and peace !

So what would you think about it ?

Other than pushing the whole world to recognize the Armenian claim of course as a punishment for so daring Türkiye!

He might be winning people´s hearts but I am still doubtful about the real out come of his action in Davos..

I think some people think the same :

....

By abandoning the meeting and showing such an aggressive reaction, Erdogan put himself and his country in a risky position. 

Even though there was no need for it, he all of a sudden changed the Arab-Israeli fight into a Turkish-Israeli fight. In a international political arena he changed the issue into a street brawl. 

... If the prime minister insistently continues this approach, and does not choose to soften the incidence, then important changes might occur. 

For example: 

-Turkey will be progressively identified with the Hamas-Iran-Syria triangle. It will be interpreted as a slowly drifting away from Israel-United States- European Union-Egypt-Saudi Arabia camp. It will become impossible for Turkey to take on an impartial attitude in the region and play a moderating role. 

-Even if relations with Israel are not ceased, the color will start to change from now on and turn toward dislike. If not balanced immediately, relations between Israel and Turkey will not recover easily. The reflections will be seen in Washington and on the money markets. 

-Eyes will be on the Justice and Development Party, or AKP, from now on and the impression spread that Erdogan wants to carry Turkey in a different direction. Erdogan may receive applause and gain votes for this incident but he has taken on risk on an international platform. 

The prime minister does not see clearly when he becomes angry. 

Maybe he has done it on purpose. 

Maybe he has invested in elections

Maybe he was overrun by feelings.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/10895034.asp?yazarid=298&gid=260

 an excellent analyses.

but one thing i disagree with is that i think that turkey and its foreign policy will not bear any consequences as many will consider it as a stupid emotional scene. i think even peres will let it go since israel doesnt want to lose a market such as turkey. most world politicians will ignore it for sure as a faux pais. nothing to worry.

as for arab world, this is too little to satisfy them, they will never forgive turkey the betrayal - "secularism". so this applause is just a minute success.

 Actually no, i dont think so

And i dont agree that would be the case

Ý believe he tries to play another rule in the area, and that is what its all about

He doesnt seek to be part of any camp, he wants to make his own camp, actually not a camp...

He wants to play the big brother thing.

He wants to have all the ropes in his hands .

He wants to have a good relation with everyone, and also win the platform of the Arab public.

And he also wants to make sure that the dont mistake him ´Türkiye´ with any of the others capms around

Thats why he made/is making things none of the already existing camps did.

Ýf we calculate his benefits.

1. His own people...needless to say everone of them felt that he spoke by his/her tongue.

2. Arabs and people of the area ´not governments´ they are empressed, proud...and you can add as many as you wish to describe it

Some calling him the Osmanlý aslan !

Ottoman lion !

3.Ýn the EU and USA level, they will actually get the message, that being allay doesnt mean TOTALY obay you !

4.For israel, the relation will get affected but not in a way to take a clear or a direct action, because israel needs Türkiye too

BUT....they are waiting for the right moment and wish Erdoðan has more than he already show that will keep the equation in his favore

5.Being a country that the ME listen to it will put Türkiye in another place more stronger than she already is .

6.Economical effect...he got himself a good and big market ´Arabs´

Some already said they will buy the Turkish products

As boycott effecting some countries, supporting will effect others

7. His big challenge are the government of the ME...if he can manage them as well as the people, he could move as he planed

Türkiye and Egypt almost have same points of view but with some difference in methods sometimes, and Egypt is the biggest country that have a direct effect at both side in that conflict, so he seems take a good shot in that direction too.

I´m proud of him and I wish Obama would make such a statement. Enough!!! The parties HAVE to learn to live together, share resources. When will the killing stop? The area reminds me of a spreading gangrenous wound that threatens to spoil the whole world.

I think the Israil has really gone way over board. Someone has to call them on it. They have gotten like a spoilt child, IMHO.

You are misjudging him to be honest..

I think in the end he could not control his anger but the way he acted suited very well in the political arena internally and abroad..

I dont believe he calculated what he did there carefully but he was pleased with the outcome..

If he does not change his tone (I think he will change after the elections) he will demage Turkey´s foreign policies in the world..

It is deeply disturbing to see Turkey at the same axis as  Iran and Syria. 

Economical effect/ arabs etc is not realistic either..Because most of the arabs deeply connected with the west. Almost all arabic goverments are puppets of the west.

Those goverments can not survive without western support..

So nothing is going to change easily and quickly because our prime minister showed some kasimpasa gestures in Davos..

Countries foreign policies do not change with one incidents..Or should not change with one incidents..

 But that is exactly what i am saying

That Türkiye is not seen at the same axis as  Iran and Syria.

He didnt want it that way.

And people of the area also do NOT want it that way !

They believe both camps didnt do what they want...and they are looking for something else, new leader

You dont take the the situations in the county of the area into considerations

Yes i agree, most of them if not all are just tools at the West hands

But their people are not !

Change was going on for a long time, slow one but its there

So its not just changing with one incident

Ýt was an incident in a suitable time.

Dont underestimate the Arab public, they are a power of their own, not very much effective for now...but its getting there.

And he wanted to use that...and Arab public are open to him now.

Of course countries foreign policies but they can redirected within the countries interests

And also of cource his tone will be soften...as i told you he wants all ropes in his hands and that rope too he is keen to have

What he did...is granting himself a role in the area and not just the audience role.

And by a heaver weight nations got measure!

There are, I believe, 7 of them now, so we´re getting there.

Panem et circenses.

it would be nice if they were all together in one thread.....is that possible?

The political language of Turkey

There is big difference between Turkey and America in terms of political culture. Unlike his American counterpart, Turkish PM can simply wake up, read something in the paper, feel annoyed about it, and then comment on it directly to the media without much calculation.

..

You can see this emotional and inflammatory rhetoric not just in the politics of Turkey, but also in the daily life of ordinary Turks. In Turkish films and soap operas, lovers very often yell at each other saying things like, "I hate you," "You are disgusting," or even "I want to kill you." Next day, or even the next hour, the same couple shows up again in a Romeo and Juliet mode. ...

Oh, you hit me!

Even physical expressions of anger are more tolerated in Turkey more than in other, especially Western, cultures. When I was a kid, I would be surprised by a theme I repeatedly saw in American movies: In the midst of a heated discussion, a father would put a slap on the face of his disobedient teenage child. The child would be shocked, look at the angry father with a stunned face, and say, "oh, you hit me." Then the kid would angrily run to his or her room, slam the door, and leave behind a regretting dad. But in Turkey, if you get a slap from your parents, you are not supposed to be surprised that much. "Oh, you made your father angry and he gave you some tough love," your mother will tell you. The fact that his emotions led him to take excessive action is not criticized. The distance between feeling the anger, and putting it into words and acts, is not that big here.

....

... Later he will easily be able to say, "Oh, I didn´t mean that, I was just angry." ..

The recent remarks of Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan in the face of the brutal Israeli assault on Gaza should be understood in this context. ....

..such magnified words are used very freely in Turkey. Almost all camps label each other as "fascists," and blame them for "high treason." It is just not a very meticulous country in terms of its political language.

... former American Consul General to Istanbul, David Arnett, wrote for the Turkish Policy Quarterly three years ago: "The Importance of Emotion in Turkish-American Relations." If one does not get that emotion factor, one does not get Turkey at all.

http://hurarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/goster/haber.aspx?id=10906065&yazarid=301

 ahahaha that tells everything. again nice analyses.

btw, stop reading simple newspaper articles written by simple people, its time for tougher food like shock doctrine!

when shall you start educating yourself finally? and pls, work on your english!

That´s a nice analysis, sure Turks seem more emotional than Europe or the US so that explains a lot

My analysis is far more better than those sneaky writers, i only do not use any flowery language. Yeah the only problem in his attitude to criticize, is his emotions and political language he used .

 oh no. we know what it is ,

you post your opinion. and when we praise and frame it, you will say: no, its not actually my opinion i just copied it from real analysts

get off, you copycat!

Dont reveal my sources´ secrecy, you faulty.

By the way, i have already watched on tv; Baykal the copycat had stolen my opinions, said exactly the same things in meeting i wrote here .

p.s: I need to work on my English

 Well Canli, doesn´t this break forum rules?  Please don´t tell me you are picking and choosing which one(s) you enforce. 

http://turkishclass.com/tc/TurkishClassRulesAndTerms.php

6. Consecutive messages and cross-posting across different forums, or starting two identical threads should be avoided. Do not open a new thread on multiple forums. Find a suitable forum and post it there only.

 GG....are you suggesting that we have one thread about any given subject....like say....ummmmm Evil Israel, Evil America, Turkish mother in laws, headscarves, ect......do they have to stay on topic too?   

 Nope, it makes absolutely no difference to me at all.  I was simply pointing out an inconsistency in an application of rules. 

 I am shocked by this!!

 im not shocked at all. im tough

 Borats are shock-proof.

 And if i went and deleted the threads , then i would be accused of over doing it and the threads will be neglected by themselves if they are serving same purpose !

Never the less, i didnt think it was breaking the rules of the forum , one was announcing it and the other was at political forum discussing the political impact of his action on Türkiye.

So i didnt think i should delete any

We did same too with the new years threads,and didnt delete it any

And no other mods/admins deleted them either so i believe we agree not to, for different or similar reasons.

And as for saying it worth many more its my personal opinion about the event indicating how important it is.

Just to clarify, this rule doesn´t mean that there can be only one thread about any given topic. This rule is explicitly for one person posting the same message multiple times (in the same thread or in different threads), or starting the same thread multiple times either in the same forum or on multiple forums. This rule, as quoted here, has nothing to do with having multiple threads around the same topic started by different users. 

 Thanks for the clarification but I was really just trying to make a point. 

According to the economist:

Best catchphrase (of this year): “Doing an Erdogan”, Davos-speak for hissy fit, after Recep Tayyip Erdogan, ...

http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13052465