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American Fascism Awareness Day
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50.       alameda
3499 posts
 16 Apr 2009 Thu 11:06 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I don´t know a communistic country that would also be democratic. Communism as practised in Eastern europe was dreadful. The idea of getting rid of social classes and making everything everybody´s possession might not have been that bad in theory but in practice it resulted in catastrophe. If everything belongs to everyone then it belongs to no one. Vandalism, laziness and not caring stemed from it. Everybody had to work. It seems not a bad idea but...no matter how badly you worked you wouldn´t get fired. Hence a saying "Whether you´re standing or lying down, you´re entitled to the dough"

 

Communistic economy resulted in empty shops with vinegar on shelves only. To buy food you had to spend half of your day in a queue, food was rationalised and you needed vouchers. I´d see oranges (Cuban ones) only at Christmas, sanitary things like cotton wool or toilet paper were a luxury. To by a Russian colour tv you had to spend 3 days in a queue. Fun, right?

 

And that´s just an average citizen life, if you were a person who cannot keep silent about not having the right of freedom of speech, you´d be arrested, tortured and imprisoned. Workers´ protests were "pacified" with guns. Many people lost their lives to free our country. Ordinary people, shipyard workers, miners, factory workers...I´m glad they did as now I can enjoy freedom. Communism? Never again!

 

 Yes, I know DD. I´m just talking about the abstract ideal of "communism" Angel   It´s a system that I don´t think would ever work other than in a community of Saints.  Even then, people need to get credit for their efforts.  Some do more, some do as little as they can.  If they do more, or better, I think they should be rewarded for it.

 

I do think we have very unfair exploitation process via who has the most capital to capitalize on...and they get more capital....and on it goes.  I don´t know what the perfect system is, but where those with wealth compound it generation after generation, not based on any inherent value they add, but just based on the fact that they have it and others don´t isn´t great either.  When I see the saleries some of the Financial people got, and the public bailout funds they got...AIG, Goldman Sachs....) and what a mess

they made, it makes me see red. I will get you 

 

What you mention about lack of freedom of speech and all, really has nothing to do with the ideal of communism.  Ideally if things are shared, everyone would have an equal voice...no? 

 

 

 

If I make a better mouse trap, why shouldn´t I benefit? On the other hand, there are entities who only capitalize on the efforts of someone long dead making benefit off their inventions, and they have not invented anything, they just exploit. 

 

The Capitalist system leaves a bad taste too. To often the poor get poorer....common resources are privitized....even water.  I can´t believe they are privitizing water.

 

Vandana Shiva has something to say about it

 

I had a dance company once and was concerned how to equitably share profits.  It was hard, but I figured giving the members shares based on the amount they put into the project was the best way.  Some only got one share, others got two or three shares. I got the most shares, but I put in the most work....and $$$.

 

51.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 17 Apr 2009 Fri 12:34 am

Unfortunately, there is no perfect system Or, if there is, it hasn´t been introduced yet. Ideas beyond each one will never work out because of the human factor.

 

"What you mention about lack of freedom of speech and all, really has nothing to do with the ideal of communism.  Ideally if things are shared, everyone would have an equal voice...no? "

 

Yes, equal voice provided it´s unanimous. Everybody who dares to criticise the "one and only just system" is to be punished. People opposing the government´s policy were identified as traitors and convicted...

52.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Apr 2009 Sat 03:02 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Unfortunately, there is no perfect system Or, if there is, it hasn´t been introduced yet. Ideas beyond each one will never work out because of the human factor.

 

"What you mention about lack of freedom of speech and all, really has nothing to do with the ideal of communism.  Ideally if things are shared, everyone would have an equal voice...no? "

 

Yes, equal voice provided it´s unanimous. Everybody who dares to criticise the "one and only just system" is to be punished. People opposing the government´s policy were identified as traitors and convicted...

 

Regarding the "human factor", I agree with you.  Every system was confronted with those who wanted to subvert it to their wants.  It is only with an informed, active citizenry things can be kept in line.  Unfortunately, most humans are too busy  (or is it lazy?) to be bothered.  Even then, in a democratic system, the people can be manipulated.  I am realizing how difficult the whole thing is.

 

On occasion, when conditions become so unbearable or unsustainable, things change.  They eventually slide back again after a while.  It´s been happening for thousands of years, and most probably will continue for as long as humans exist.

 

We specialize.  That is one of the traits that enabled us to develop civilizations.  We had the baker, tailor, and so forth.  The problem is, we have forgotten to look at the big picture, and in fact much of the ability to actually see the larger picture is diminished. 

 

United we stand, divided we fall..."First they came for ....

53.       teaschip
3870 posts
 12 May 2009 Tue 06:37 am

Damn, I missed some good posts here.  Sorry to see Tami leave this site.  I actually enjoyed our conversations.Confused

54.       libralady
5152 posts
 13 May 2009 Wed 12:26 am

 

Quoting teaschip

Damn, I missed some good posts here.  Sorry to see Tami leave this site.  I actually enjoyed our conversations.Confused

 

 And I was duped into thinking I was the only one!!!!! Hey Teas, do you want to be my Facebook friend??? <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)k

 

btw you are no longer bed Amerikans now Obama is in power............. all Amerikens are gud   Angel

55.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 13 May 2009 Wed 07:21 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 btw you are no longer bed Amerikans now Obama is in power............. all Amerikens are gud   Angel

 

Who told you we are all gud???  Rant  Somebody has been lying to you!

56.       Trudy
7887 posts
 13 May 2009 Wed 07:43 pm

 

Quoting girleegirl

 

 

Who told you we are all gud???  Rant  Somebody has been lying to you!

 

 Tamam, all but you....

57.       libralady
5152 posts
 13 May 2009 Wed 08:26 pm

 

Quoting girleegirl

 

 

Who told you we are all gud???  Rant  Somebody has been lying to you!

 

 Speculating!!!!   So I don´t want to spoil your cred - you are still the beddest of all Amerekens.......... and Teas is second beddest...... Elisabeth is the guddest Angel (so I don´t leave her out Satisfied nod 

58.       teaschip
3870 posts
 13 May 2009 Wed 09:34 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 Speculating!!!!   So I don´t want to spoil your cred - you are still the beddest of all Amerekens.......... and Teas is second beddest...... Elisabeth is the guddest Angel (so I don´t leave her out Satisfied nod 

 

I made it in the top three...Thank you, thank you!

59.       lessluv
1052 posts
 14 May 2009 Thu 02:12 am

 

Quoting teaschip

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 Speculating!!!!   So I don´t want to spoil your cred - you are still the beddest of all Amerekens.......... and Teas is second beddest...... Elisabeth is the guddest Angel (so I don´t leave her out Satisfied nod 

 

I made it in the top three...Thank you, thank you!

 

 there only are three <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

60.       teaschip
3870 posts
 14 May 2009 Thu 02:15 am

 

Quoting lessluv

 

 

 there only are three <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

 

 We just happen to stand out..among the beddest.<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

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