Four soldiers were killed in the eastern province of Elazýð on Aug. 17 after a lieutenant gave one of the privates a hand grenade whose pin he had pulled out to punish him for sleeping during his night watch.

Early the next day, Lt. Tümer called Öztürk to ask where his hand grenade was. When Öztürk could not find his grenade, the lieutenant showed him the explosive, saying it was taken by Sgt. Akçan when he was sleeping during his night watch. The lieutenant then pulled out the pin of the grenade and gave it to Öztürk, saying he would not die if he held the primer of the explosive tightly.

“Öztürk begged the lieutenant to give him back the pin. He said he was just 25 years old and had 75 days left to complete his military service. ‘You will kill me,´ he told Lt. Tümer,” Sgt. Yiðit Acar stated during his testimony.

Acar also stated that Tümer told noncommissioned officers in the military facility that he had given Öztürk a live hand grenade to teach him a good lesson.

Sgt. Akçan told military prosecutors that the explosion occurred about 15 or 20 minutes after Lt. Tümer pulled the pin out of the grenade and gave it to the private. “While I was supervising soldiers during the night watch, I saw Öztürk sleeping. I took his hand grenade and gave it to Lt. Tümer. The lieutenant called Öztürk up and gave him the activated grenade. He told him to wait till he gave back the pin. Fifteen or 20 minutes later, the explosion took place,” the sergeant stated.

Pvt. Recep Koyuncu claimed that Öztürk asked the lieutenant several times to return the pin, saying: “Lt. Tümer told Öztürk to return to his position and wait for him. A few minutes later, Öztürk asked the lieutenant for the pin. Lt. Tümer declined his request. The blast occurred moments after.”

During his testimony, Lt. Tümer admitted giving a live hand grenade to Öztürk. “Öztürk asked me to give him the pin. I told him to return to his position and that I would place the pin into the grenade soon. It was around 11 a.m. or 11:30 a.m. I don´t remember exactly when. We heard an explosion. When I turned back, I saw Öztürk falling face down,” stated the lieutenant. He also claimed that he punished the private in line with the military´s training procedures.

Öztürk was reportedly asking his friends for a pin when the hand grenade exploded. The four fallen soldiers were buried on Aug. 18.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-185257-privates-died-after-lieutenant-punished-one-for-sleeping-on-duty.html

I saw theH posted this on another thread.  It is shocking - this kind of military "bullying" seems to be common in all country´s forces and is sick.  I hope the Lt will be tried and convicted of murder.

It confirms my suspicion of men who choose this kind of life as a career...

We have heard a lot of horror stories of young British soldiers committing suicide as a result of excessive bullying in the armed forces but this incident is really beyond belief and a real tragedy.

 This is nothing short of  a barbaric murder and if I was the parent of that young man I would want blood spilled.  This makes me so angry, words fail me.

Now people are asking more and more questions and raising their voice:

How many of our sons dies in accidents? how much lies di dwe have so far? etc

..

This incident shows how an institution, the military, which is funded by the state, lacks supervision. Actually, in a democratic regime, every penny of tax paid should be monitored, and everyone should know how the state spends this money. How can a state and its military be credible, transparent and reliable when they do not refrain from saying that the cause of death of the four soldiers in Elazig was an accident?" asks Altan. In further remarks, he says he wonders whether Turkey will ever have a military that is transparent, auditable and does not cover up its mistakes with official lies. "We need this for the safety of our children´s lives"

....

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/...-unaccountable-military.html

Btw...

The incident was made news by Daily Taraf..

We should all thank to them. By making this news, they possibly prevented similar incidents which might have happened in the future..

Where are the little mice of TC who never fail to lick army boots when ever a chance is given?  

Just a curious question: has there ever been a debate in Turkey about making militairy service not compulsory anymore? Like in other countries where the army is professional?

Dunno...better ask thehandsom. 

yeah

what are those other countries? many countries have compulsory military service just like Turkey.

Good to know that you now have realized what you dont know..

Yes there has been a debate..But it was stopped by the army as they know that if the army is not compulsary they would not be as influencial as they are now..

But I am sure, we will have a professional army very soon..

It is kind of unavoidable..

     No armed forces      No conscription      Plan to abolish conscription within 3 years      Conscription      No information

Source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

so as you see many countries have compulsory military service like I said. I was wondering what particular countries you were talking about and why we have to be like those particular countries.

 Many do have and many don´t. I wasn´t saying you have to be like those countries. I was only asking if there was a debate ever, just curious, nothing more, nothing less.

yes there is a debate.

 And what´s your opinion about that? (Again, just curious!)

If you`re so curious, I`m all for the abolition of compulsory service

Well

When you look at the colours, it is obvious what Turkey should be aiming really..

EU countries are almost green. And the Asian countries are red..

Apart from everything, the effectiveness of professi0nal armies is better than old style armies go on  with  ´we die for our country´ rethoric. 

Look at the American army in Iraq for example. Look how effective (unfortunately) they have been..Look how many number of casualties they have given so far while invading a country..(I dont want to compare with the number of casualties we have given in the south east )

Switching to a professional army has some financial burdens but Turkey´s economy is getting into a position that we can afford to have powerful professional army..

Green? Meaning having no army at all? The only green part I see is Greenland, which is a part of Denmark.

 That surprises me.

That will teach you not to make presumptions about me especially about my old nick name.

+10000000000000

With the level of brainwashing, many men probably feel proud of going to the army, unlike in some other countries (don´t ask tami about it though, he has no clue! )

I`m sure catwoman will now come up with a survey proving how the men in the "US and EU" are not proud of going to army.

funny how tami reverted his question from "which countries don´t have a forced drafting" to "which did you mean"?

I asked "what are those other countries?"

I never said " which countries don`t have a forced drafting".   

You have a difficulty with understanding what you read or you got deeply offended by the "US and EU" comment?

Ha ha..

That is spot on..

And also, it is good to know that some people would like our beloved Turkey to abolish the compulsary army and have a professional army like many of the countries like USA and EU.

It is wrong to say that ´Ah EU and USA are having private armies so  I will oppose the idea of Turkey having private army´. 

do those "other countries" include the US and your country too? Because with the level of brainwashing here, many men feel proud of going to Iraq to kill and torture some muslims.

There is an article about this incident and also the issue of professional army:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/..ould-speak-now.html

...

In Turkey, almost everyone agrees that we need a professional army. In this technological age, it is almost impossible for young people with only three months of military training to fight wars. Despite several promises, still these youngsters fight the Kurdistan Workers´ Party (PKK) terrorists in the mountains, and many of them become martyrs. More than 700,000 Turkish youth are now in active military service, and they serve for 15 months. This is a huge loss for the Turkish economy, and as several incidents have shown, they are not effective fighters as their training is not sufficient.

....

The generals love to talk on every single issue under the sky, but they are hesitant to inform us on military issues. They need to convince us why hundreds of thousands of our youths have to stay economically idle for almost two years, to interrupt their lives because of military duty, to delay several important issues such as marriage because of military duty interruption and to leave their loved ones for almost two years during peacetime. God forbid, if there were a war, none of us would stay behind and would join our army to defend our families, lives, country and so on, but in peacetime, it is high time that we question if those 700,000 men are really useful for the country. We know that a high percentage of them either serve military officers or themselves as janitors, cooks, drivers, painters and so on. If we had a smaller professional army, many of these services would obviously not be required. What is more, these people would be working and contributing to the economy, thereby sponsoring the army as well. It is crystal clear that there is no economic logic in the status quo. ...

. On the other hand, these non-professional youngsters, however brave and heroic they are, are not effective fighters because of the conditions of their age.

.......

wow, great article (especially coming from Zaman )

this is cw with her amusing "I didn`t hear what you say" state. you think you can get away?

dude, you think that I care about your repetitious, stupid posts? keep on rewinding yourself if that saves you money on doctors.

if you don`t care about what I post why do you constantly refer to my posts?

it`s the easiest way to say "I don`t care about your posts", when you can`t handle a debate right? poor you?

Ahhh.. so this is your reply to some of the hints of you in some of my posts.. I see how you are handling this.. Anyway.. you are so full of yourself dude if you think I´m avoiding your posts!   You are a bit obnoxious, rarely posting something that is worth replying to. You are so hung up on some people and topics that you rarely if ever get outside of the box with your replies, which is why you are often boring. You also seem to be enjoying fights in the forum, and even when someone asks a legitimate question, you reply as if you were attacked... so you are better to be ignored.

Lieutenant has been arrested and I think he will face a murder trial .

But do you think the lieutenant is the ´real guilty one´ in this incident?

Lets think in a different way; lets think that those 4 young soldiers are not dead..

The lieutenant, possibly, would be telling this story to his  children with a great pride!! 

Nobody would come up and say ´hey stupid, that is someone´s life you are playing with´. 

There would be many people who would go and say ´what a great commander´ about him!!

There is a system up there that will go with ´homeland-nation-state´ etc.. 

People will glorify these abstract values and the majority will NOT think the value of  an individual´s life is important at all..

When you think in the same wave length, many sacred values are all around..´defending the homeland´, ´sacred depth to our country´, ´discipline´, ´if the subject it homeland the rest is irrelevant´ etc. The least sacred one is ´a human´s life´!!

Think of "andimiz" which we talked about long time ago..

Remember rhetoric such as ´I went to the army, my son went to the army, my aunt could have been in the army, we are all proud - - etc ).

Think of all those nationalistic words we have heard and hear here..

When you look at the lieutenant from this angle, he did do nothing wrong!!

He was trying to teach the importance of losing a weapon given by the army; he was trying to teach how sacred and how important the watch duty is!

He was doing his job between the borders of the system..