You said, and I quote "Any etnic group that breeds terorists however, should be treated with extreme caution...Not because of their etnic origin, but because they breed terorists." ... Well, Turks have brought forward terrorists, so I must handle Turks with caution, accordig to your own logic. Or are you telling me that there are different rules for Turks? Handle with caution, except when it´s a Turk?

And this reply is a ´check mate´

You are too clever Barba!!

Oh..

You want to change the subject now..do you? 

So, you think that they should accuse Kurds not Turks. And Kurds have blood on their hands.. do you?

So , something happened there in 1915 and what happened would turn your stomach turn..is it true? 

Thanks for that. In my next column I will touch briefly who were actually did the massacres during 1915.. (Kurds  will be in the list as well as immigrants from Caucasia and released prisoners)

I am thanking you for a few things:

a- You are a great proof for the idea that ´though Turks deny what happened in 1915, but many of them THINK that something terrible happened´

b- You are also a great proof that why Turk in ´ne mutlu Turkum diyene´ means Turkish ethnicity only.. When there is something wrong or something embarrassing is done-such as honour killing etc- ´They are not Turks, they are Kurds!!!´ .. But when it comes to defending andimiz ´nooo..everybody in Turkey is called Turks´..yes yes.. we believe you.

And also, you have to be a kind of blind person not to see PKK´s support between the Kurds..

The election results (almost all Kurdish cities are from the kurdish party) is a proof for that.

Some one above was  saying that PKK was threatening the voters and the elections are done under the arms so it is not democratic..Peh yani.. if it was left to you guys, you would even ban elections for the Kurds!! 

How about the original question....the difference between Turkish and Kurdish cultures? As I understand it, there are Christian, Jewish and Muslim Kurds. Of the Muslim Kurds, there are Shia and Suni, as well as Alevi and Yazidis.  This leaves the question, what exactly is a Kurd?

Most of the killings happened during the relocation. They were attacked by the Kurdish gangs (if the people living there are Kurds, they must be Kurds right?).

There is a paradox here. Those who aim to part Turkey claim that that area is Kurdistan because the area is populated by Kurds. But when it comes to Armeanan who were killed in 1915 they say that they were killed by Turks.

This is very similar to the paradox: Kurds are Kurds when they are asylum seekers but Kurds are Turks when they are heroin smugglers.

You forgot the most important type: there are also Indian Kurds!

Hence, that brings the answer: A Kurd is exactly an Indian in southeastern Turkey.

There is a certain gemeral perception about almost the entire people in South East and to a much lesser extent those in East Turkey: these are predominantly feudal people who are still going through a transformation from a social order that entails tribes, extremely large extended families gathering around local lords whom they serve without getting paid for anything other than the most basic human needs. This is a setting where human rights in the sense perceived by Western standards is impossible. People are taught to obey their masters and rely on their permission for any individual decision that include traveling from one place to another, marriages etc. There are usually conflicts  among these tribes which result in feuds. Younger members of the family, especially those under 18 are used as hitmen to settle open accounts. Usually, the lives of people in these clans are expendable whenever there is a benefit. These people often have 5-10-15 or more children and the spree goes on until the family has enough boys to defend it.

These aspects of the South Eastern population and their obvious discord with the life in big cities have always created a problem. These people have moved from the East to West some finding their way in European countries. They were usually scorned, looked down on and severely criticized for being so backward. Not only in Turkey but also abroad. 

Based on this, we can conclude that the Kurds are indeed the Indians of Turkey. Nevertheless, the Indians have a culture that places utmost value to nature. Despite being primitive compared to the Western civilization, there are many enviable aspects of their culture.

On contact with these people, early American settlers did not want to integrate them into their societies. They labeled them according to their skin color and the blood. Color and blood were two aspects that separated them from others. In Turkey, Kurds are not treated with racial consciousness. The problems is about their social character...

That´s a very interesting briefing on the Kurdish society and culture, Vineyards. Thank you.

There is a serious tendency between Turks about belittling Kurds and their culture and trying to show them as backwards and primitive as possible.  According to them, they represent the ´better´ class in Turkey.. They want to put a ´clear line´ between themselves and the Kurds who are culterless/feudal/primitive/backwards people.. Because some of them tend to have bigger families..Some of them listen to their feudal leaders..They dont speak Turkish well..blah blah..

This is not a big surprise to me as I know very well that every nationalism requires its enemies to live. There is always ´us and them´ for every one of them. Since we all are Turks and some of the people coming out and daring to say that ´no we are not Turks´, then they become ´the others and the enemy´. It would be a huge surprise for the nationalists to accept another people than Turks, same as Turks in this country.. Because they all grew with these nationalist sentiments as mentioned in andimiz.. We Turks are a glorious nation..How dare someone ´rejects to become a Turk or rejects to say he is a Turk´? Since the core of these sentiments is the Turkish nationalism, anything other than Turks, in these soils, not worthy to respect!!

They will not hesitate to label all of the kurds as primitive because they think ´all Kurds are feudal´. They wont realize that saying that as ridiculous as calling all Turks in Europe as people who sell kebap.. (I call those people in Europe uncultured most of the time.. Not racist, in this case,  because the sheer categorisation in ´all Turks are doner people´ is so primitive.. same as as calling all Kurds as feudal/tribal with extendend families!!)  

Tribal leaders who owns the land is not only Kurdish thing..There were many ´Agas in the west too as large land owners who expolited the poor.. There are still some ´Agas´ in the east but with the less extend...They are changing..If there are still some feudal leaders there, it is because the Turkish state supporting them.. Check all those local militias/korucu and their asirets -feudal clans- etc... It is the state giving the feudalism an extended life.... (btw..I have to say, almost all Kurdish groups including pkk fought against the feudalism and feudal leaders..)

Anyway..This is a long argument..We should try to avoid to show OUR poorest citizens as anti-modern. Of course, some Turks who turn their faces and bums to the west, love to portray them as ´a backwards race´. They love to say ´Kurds are  primitive and it is given to them by god and it is natural´..Calling Kurds ´you dirty feudal thing´ makes them relaxed..Makes them feel better. ´Kurds have to show gratitude that they were given a chance to call themselves Turks´

And yes..Kurds are our Indians and they have a culture (as we were discussing in another thread..And their culture is thriving . You can understand why some people get irritated with  the idea of Kurdish culture being thrivied, because so long they tried to believe that Kurds were primitive people with no culture. This is a shock for them)

The problem has never been anybody´s social character..The problem has been Turkish nationalism-racism.

Well, all your messages are colored too. In fact, they are as colored as those from nationalists. I hate to get personal with you but I think and many of us will agree, you are quite a  bit predictable. You keep saying the same things that seem to come from a single book which divides people into poles and judges them according the labels they bear.

Admittedly, I did not read your message beyond the first two paragraphs. Truth be told, you  don´t write opinions but reactions that could best be conveyed by opening the window in the middle of the night and shouting in anger. Just like any message conveyed that way, it irritates people rather than gaining their approval or consent.

You might complain about the tone of this post but before doing that you should browse through your past messages where you labeled people at will. If you stop pouring out all your anger on us the nationalist types and begin writing opinions. Only then can I answer you with opinions.

Going back to the recent post, do you think Kurds do not live in extended families? Can we say they are generally much more civilized people than what I depicted. You may claim all of this is Turkey´s fault but you cannot change the reality. I am 43 years old and have have traveled extensively. I have no problem hanging out with Kurdish friends, we often discuss with them these matters too. The things they tell me about their culture are mostly in line with my previous message. Many of them don´t mind making self-criticism

For example, several of my friends told me about honor killings committed because of unsubstantiated suspicion. A girl´s life is pretty much expendible should she be caught flirting with her boy friend. Now there is a difference here and we can not make it disappear by quoting verses from that neo-liberal, socialist mumbo-jumbo.

Yes I agree with you. He´s so predictible. Turks did this and that to Kurds. Turks are responsible for all the bad thing about Kurds, blah... blah... blah... According to me, he´s anything but Turkish disguised in Turkish dress (nice tactic by the way).

And yes I don´t bother myself with reading whole of his posts either. Read the first sentence, you will get the idea. Same all same all.