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Noah´s ark
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| 30. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 07:16 pm |
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I guess you dont read as well, does this clearly says and proves its on mount Judi or talking about possibility?
Most of the Islamic academicians belive it must be on Judi Mountain. I showed you my documents. I don´t have more to say. Believe what you believe. I don´t believe such an Ark has ever existed. Have a nice day.
Edited (4/30/2010) by gokuyum
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| 31. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 08:56 pm |
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gokuyum, can you say anything in your own words?
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| 32. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 09:23 pm |
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gokuyum, can you say anything in your own words?
yes "forever science"
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| 33. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 09:40 pm |
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...Another question... what did they eat on the ark...strictly vegetarian? I like a good piece of meat, and I don´t know if I could hold myself back for 40 days. Chicken is so tasty!
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| 34. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 10:05 pm |
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Most of the Islamic academicians belive it must be on Judi Mountain. I showed you my documents. I don´t have more to say. Believe what you believe. I don´t believe such an Ark has ever existed. Have a nice day.
Most of the Islamics?? In fact none of them can clearly say it was on today´s mount Judi, all were talking about possibility because of nearness to Mezopotamia.
Here is what famous Elmalılı said in his commentary;
"Cudi: Engince bir dağdır ki, Musulda denilmiş, El Cezire´de, Amid´de, Şam´da denilmiş. Ebu Hayyan diyor ki, Cezire´de veya Amid´de denilmesi Musul´s yakınlığı dolayısıyladır. Bir de denilmiş ki, Cudi her dağa söylenebilen bir cins ismidir."
So you just voiced a myth which rooted on people´s mind because of mountain´s name, nothing credible and nothing more. And obviously i wont ask you what i believe in or not...
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| 35. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 10:17 pm |
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Most of the Islamics?? In fact none of them can clearly say it was on today´s mount Judi, all were talking about possibility because of nearness to Mezopotamia.
Here is what famous Elmalılı said in his commentary;
"Cudi: Engince bir dağdır ki, Musulda denilmiş, El Cezire´de, Amid´de, Şam´da denilmiş. Ebu Hayyan diyor ki, Cezire´de veya Amid´de denilmesi Musul´s yakınlığı dolayısıyladır. Bir de denilmiş ki, Cudi her dağa söylenebilen bir cins ismidir."
So you just voiced a myth which rooted on people´s mind because of mountain´s name, nothing credible and nothing more. And obviously i wont ask you what i believe in or not...
Not only Islamics but Jew and Christian academics and reverands too. I can´t count all of them. Look below.
KİLDANİ KAYNAKLAR
BEROSSUS: Bir Kildani büyücü, rahip ve tarihçi. (İ.Ö. 3.yy)da, Berossus , Babil tufanının bir başka versiyonunu rivayet eder. Bu rivayete göre gemi, Urartu’ da karaya oturmuştur ve geminin bazı parçaları, hala Urartu’ daki Gordyaeans (Cudi) dağlarındadır. Berossus, anlatımına şöyle devam eder. Bazıları, gemiyi kazıyarak zift aldılar ve bunu tılsım yapmada kullandılar. Berossus ‘a göre, Cudi Dağı, hem Gordyaean Dağları’ nda hem de antik Ermenistan (Urartu) sınırındadır.
HIRİSTİYAN KAYNAKLAR
EUSEBİUS: (İ.S. 3.yy)’da yaşayan,ilk kiliselerin pederlerinden biridir. Gemi ‘nin küçük bir parçasının, kendi zamanında, Gardian (Cudi) dağlarında olduğunu söyler.
THE PERSHITTA: Pershitta, Suriyeli Hıristiyanların kullandıkları İncildir. Bu İncilde, Tekvin 8/14′te, Nuh ‘un Gemisi ‘nin, karaya oturduğu yer olarak Quardu(Cudi) Dağı ‘nı yazar.
BİZANSIN FAUTUSU: Fautus , (İ.S. 4 .yy)’da yaşayan bir tarihçidir. Bir ermeni tarihçisi olarak bilinmesine rağmen, aslı yunanlıdır. Orjinal çalışmaları kaybolmuştur. Ancak, çalışmasının tercümeleri günümüze kadar ulaşmıştır. Notlarından birinde, Nusaybinli keşiş St. Jakop’tan bahseder. St. Jacop, ALLAH ‘tan kendisine Nuh’un Gemisi’ ni göstermesini istemiş, ALLAH ‘ta, bir melek vasıtasıyla, geminin tahtalarından küçük bir parça göstermiştir. Fautus, bu olayın Cudi Dağı ‘nda gerçekleştiğini yazar. Zaten Nusaybin’de, Cudi Dağına 70 mil mesafede bir kasabadır. (İ.S. 10.yy)a kadar, tüm Ermeni kaynaklar, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nin, Ermenistan’ın güneyinde bir yerde olduğunu söyler.
EPİPHANIUS: Selanik patriği , (İ.S. 4yy)’de yaşamış, din düşmanlarına karşı oldukça etkili olmuştur. Gemi’ nin, Gordian (Cudi) Dağlarında olduğunu belirtmiştir. Ve birinin dikkatli incelemesi halinde, Nuh’un Sunağı’ nı görebileceğini eklemiştir.
EUTYCHIUS : (İ.S. 9.yy)’da yaşamış, İskenderiye patriğidir. Şöyle demiştir:
“Gemi, Ararat Dağlarına oturmuştu. O dağ da Musul ‘un yanındaki, Cebel Cudi ‘dir. Musul antik Ninova ‘nın yanında bir şehirdir ve Cudi Dağı’nın 80 mil güneyindedir.
İSLAMİ KAYNAKLAR
KUR’AN: Kur’an derki: Gemi geldi ve Cudi ‘ye oturdu. (11/44). Modern İslam ansiklopedisinde, Cudi Dağı ‘nı referans gösterir.
AL-MASUDİ: (İ.S. 10.yy)’da yaşamıştır. ” Gemi geldi ve Cudi’ye oturdu. Tigris’e (Dicle), 8 fersah uzaklıktadır.” 8 fersah, 25-30 mil karşılığıdır. Bu mesafede, ölçülünce sizi tam olarak Cudi Dağı ‘na götürür.
İBN HAUKAL : (İ.S. 10.yy)da yaşamıştır. Cudi’nin Nusaybin kasabasının yanında olduğunu belirtmiştir. Ayrıca Nuh ‘un, dağın dibinde bir köy kurduğunu da eklemiştir.
İBN AL-MİD: (İ.S. 13.yy)’da yaşamıştır. 7.yy’da imparator olan Herakliyus ‘un bölgeyi görmek için, Cudi Dağı ‘na tırmanmak istediğini yazmıştır.
ZAKARIYA BIN MUHAMMED AL-KAZWINE: (İ.S. 13.yy)’da yaşamış bir Müslüman coğrafyacıdır. Gemi ‘nin tahtaları kullanılarak, bir manastır inşa edildiğini kaydetmiştir. Yer belirtmemiştir.
YAHUDİ KAYNAKLAR
SAMİRİ TEVRATI (İlk beş kitap): Samirilerin kabul ettiği, Tevrat ‘ın sadece ilk beş kitabından oluşan bu metne göre, Nuh’un Gemi ’si, Kuzey Asur bölgesinde bulunan Kürt (Cudi ) Dağları’nda, karaya oturmuştur.
TARGUM: Targum metinleri, Yahudiler, Babil ‘deki ilk sürgünden döndüklerinde, Aramice yazılmış metinlerdir. 3 Targum vardır: Onkelos , Neofiti ve Pseudo Jonatan. Bunların üçüde geminin karaya oturma yerini, Quardu Dağları (Kürt Dağları olarak belirtir.
JOSEPHUS: (İ.S. 1.yy)’da yaşamış, Roma İmparatorluğuna sadık bir Yahudi tarihçidir. Gerçek bir entelektüeldir ve Pavlos ile de çağdaştır. Roma İmparatorluğu’nun resmi görevli tarihçisi olduğu için, zamanının tüm kütüphane ve arşivlerine rahatça ulaşabiliyordu. Kitaplarında, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nden 3 yerde bahsetmiştir. Josephus, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nin karaya oturduğu yeri, kesinlikle Cudi Dağı olarak belirtmiştir.
BENJAMİN OF TUDELA: ( İ.S.12.yy)’da yaşamıştır. Seyahat ettiğinde, şöyle yazmıştır. Eski şehrin kalıntıları, Cezire bin Ömer’ e, 2 günlük mesafede bulunan Tigris (Dicle) deki Ararat dağındadır. Ömer bin El Hattab, Gemi ‘yi zirveden aldı ve ondan cami yaptırdı.(Bu da, Cudi’ye Ararat dendiğinin bir delilidir.)
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| 37. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 10:37 pm |
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The first person to identify the mountain now known as Ararat as the place where the Ark came to rest was a traveller called Vincent de Beauvais in the thirteenth century. Other travellers, such as Marco Polo, took it for granted that this was correct, and it has become an accepted fact. However, before this the Ark was believed to have come to rest on a much lower peak, situated well to the south. This mountain is a peak about 6,000 feet (2,000 metres) high called Judi (or Chudi) Dagh, situated north of the Iraqi city of Mosul in the Iraq/Turkey border area.1 It is part of the Zagreb mountain range, which rears into the sky to the northeast of the Tigris valley. Both Josephus and the Koran say that the Ark came to rest on Mount Judi. On this mountain a Kurdish tribe called the Yezidis were found by travellers in the early part of last century to be offering sacrifices commemorating the ones offered by Noah when he left the Ark (Gen. 8:2 .
The Nestorian church built monasteries on the slopes of Judi Dagh, and one on its summit, because of its association with Noah. An ancient Jewish legend says that the Assyrian emperor
Sennacherib reverenced a plank of wood which came from the Ark, and there are Assyrian carvings of Sennacherib cut into the rocks of Judi Dagh. The third-century-B.C. Babylonian historian Berossus said that the Ark came to rest in the land of the Kurds, which in those times was the area where Judi Dagh is, not the area further north where Mount Ararat is located.
Soon after Noah and his sons went forth from the Ark we read of Noah planting a vineyard
and becoming drunk from the wine, perhaps through ignorance of its effect. Ancient traditions
say that wine first appeared in Urartu, and the earliest archaeological evidence of wine
comes from this area, in the form of an ancient earthenware pot in which traces of wine sediment were found.
The coming to rest of the Ark on a mountain just above the Tigris/Euphrates valley is, of
course, consistent with the account in Genesis of the first cities after the Flood being founded in that valley. According to history the first urban settlements in that area were founded by a people known as the Sumerians, and the view has been put forward, though not generally accepted, that the name Sumer is derived from Noah’s son Shem.
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| 38. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 10:53 pm |
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...Another question... what did they eat on the ark...strictly vegetarian? I like a good piece of meat, and I don´t know if I could hold myself back for 40 days. Chicken is so tasty!
Hey barba_mama, I am asuming that they ate LOTS of fish, it´s the only thing that did not drown
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| 39. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 10:56 pm |
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The first person to identify the mountain now known as Ararat as the place where the Ark came to rest was a traveller called Vincent de Beauvais in the thirteenth century. Other travellers, such as Marco Polo, took it for granted that this was correct, and it has become an accepted fact. However, before this the Ark was believed to have come to rest on a much lower peak, situated well to the south. This mountain is a peak about 6,000 feet (2,000 metres) high called Judi (or Chudi) Dagh, situated north of the Iraqi city of Mosul in the Iraq/Turkey border area.1 It is part of the Zagreb mountain range, which rears into the sky to the northeast of the Tigris valley. Both Josephus and the Koran say that the Ark came to rest on Mount Judi. On this mountain a Kurdish tribe called the Yezidis were found by travellers in the early part of last century to be offering sacrifices commemorating the ones offered by Noah when he left the Ark (Gen. 8:2. The Nestorian church built monasteries on the slopes of Judi Dagh, and one on its summit, because of its association with Noah. An ancient Jewish legend says that the Assyrian emperor Sennacherib reverenced a plank of wood which came from the Ark, and there are Assyrian carvings of Sennacherib cut into the rocks of Judi Dagh. The third-century-B.C. Babylonian historian Berossus said that the Ark came to rest in the land of the Kurds, which in those times was the area where Judi Dagh is, not the area further north where Mount Ararat is located. Soon after Noah and his sons went forth from the Ark we read of Noah planting a vineyard and becoming drunk from the wine, perhaps through ignorance of its effect. Ancient traditions say that wine first appeared in Urartu, and the earliest archaeological evidence of wine comes from this area, in the form of an ancient earthenware pot in which traces of wine sediment were found. The coming to rest of the Ark on a mountain just above the Tigris/Euphrates valley is, of course, consistent with the account in Genesis of the first cities after the Flood being founded in that valley. According to history the first urban settlements in that area were founded by a people known as the Sumerians, and the view has been put forward, though not generally accepted, that the name Sumer is derived from Noah’s son Shem.
Maybe Ararat is the other name of Judi Mountain not Judi is the other name of Ararat Mountain.Maybe both of them are true but in a different way
So this discussion ends. See you in other discussions. Bye. (Long live science)
Edited (4/30/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (4/30/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (4/30/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (4/30/2010) by gokuyum
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| 40. |
30 Apr 2010 Fri 11:53 pm |
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Good for you gokuyum, at least you reached what i said after a while...
Moreover at one time the name Ararat(Assyrian Urartu) was used for the region which compasses also mount Judi...
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