Explorers claim Noah´s Ark found on mount Ararat in Turkey

http://uk.news.yahoo.com

Wasn´t there already such a claim? There is for quite some years now an information centre near Dogubayazit. 

Yeah, it´s an old claim. Luckily for me I don´t believe in the whole ark thing so I don´t have to search the world for a landing place either

Hey, I posted this first in what caught my eyes!

Actually this one is more realiable in regards to the materials they discovered: blocks of timbers, chambers.

the previous ones were more like assumptions. It was blurry shapes seen from the air. It was rocks forming the shape of traditional boats whereas the Ark was rather a rectangular box.

Check this: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/04/latest_ark_finding_is_a_fake.php

I´ve been to this one:

http://anchorstone.com/asi-newsletters/noahs-ark-museum-center-update.html

in Dogubayazit. And now I hear it´s fake? 

Forever science. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-27rqG7OMg

 http://www.skepdic.com/noahsark.html

what makes you think that I havent read or heard such arguments? Were you happy to provide me with this link thinking it would be an eye opener to me? In comparison to you I am an open-minded person.

As for the flood myths, they are only the facts to support that the flood was true and it happent.

Theres nothing to debunk about Noah´s Ark.

 So your answer is this. A few more assumptions. Peh

You posted a link, a huge text. And then you expect me to cover all point by point?

Ask questions, I will try to answer.

 I think you are right. I have no questions. I respect your ideas but i don´t agree with them. But i want to add some information. According to Koran Noah´s Ark should be on Cudi Mountain not on Ararat. I think you are Muslim. Make your decision. Have a nice day.

http://www.arksearch.com/najudi.htm 

Oh, please, gokuyum, why do you do that? Why do you ignore me?

It means you are afraid of me. You are afraid of my answers.

I challenge you to ask me questions.

 I am not afraid of you. I have no questions for you. This text expresses my thoughts. Please read it. Then we can discuss. It is not long. I like discussing with documents.

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060905_noahs_ark.html 

EVERYTHING I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED FROM NOAH´S ARK [Author Anonymous]

1. Plan ahead. It wasn´t raining when Noah built the ark.

2. Stay fit. When you´re 600 years old, someone might ask you to do something REALLY big.

3. Don´t listen to critics -- do what has to be done.

4. Build on the high ground.

5. For safety´s sake, travel in pairs.

6. Two heads are better than one.

7. Speed isn´t always an advantage. The cheetahs were on board, but so were the snails.

8. If you can´t fight or flee -- float!

9. Take care of your animals as if they were the last ones on earth.

10. Don´t forget that we´re all in the same boat.

11. When the doo-doo gets really deep, don´t sit there and complain-- shovel!

12. Stay below deck during the storm.

13. Remember that the ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic was built by professionals.

14. If you have to start over, have a friend by your side.

15. Remember that the woodpeckers INSIDE are often a bigger threat than the storm outside.

16. Don´t miss the boat.

17. No matter how bleak it looks, there´s always a rainbow on the other side.

  +1

Oops sorry lemon, I didn´t see yours 

I was though this story as a child in Cotholic school and this question was alway on my mind... When the waters receded after the flood, wouldn´t Noah and the survivors use the lumber of the Ark to build shelters or homes?  If that were the case then their would not be anything left of the Ark?  Just a question :S

If you had researched a little bit of Quran before saying this, you would have known that the word "al judi" is not necessarily pointing out a particular mount name, the Arabic word "judi" means "high place, hill".  So that the word "judi" can refer to waters reaching only a certain level of height not covering all the land. In fact Quran never says its a global flood, and punishment was only for the people of Noah not all people. Moreover at one time the name Ararat(Assyrian Urartu) was used for the region which compasses also mount Judi... 

This is a very intersting explanation. But would they use all of the Ark?

I didn´t go to Catholic school, but I did get religious lessons...and with me the question was always, how can you find two of every animal?... and did he also put fish inside the boat? ...and the most important one...how did he catch two of every type of fly?! Because I can´t seem to catch a fly to save my life.

well if they use the wood for shelter for them and some of the animal and to make fire to keep warm and cook meals that there would not be much left of the Ark.  Also if they spent so much time in the Ark befor the water receided, knowing human nature they would not want to see he Ark after they had left it.

 check this: http://www.nevsada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=556:gemi-icin-nuh-demiyorlar&catid=88:haber

check this also : http://www.aliaksoy.net/2008/05/11/nuhun-gemisinin-son-rihtimi-cudi/ 

Look at Süleyman Ateş´s comment. He knows Qoran better than you. I can find you many Islamıc academicians who believes Noah´a Ark should be on Cudi Mountain.

YUSUFALI: Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

PICKTHAL: And it was said: O earth! Swallow thy water and, O sky! be cleared of clouds! And the water was made to subside. And the commandment was fulfilled. And it (the ship) came to rest upon (the mount) Al-Judi and it was said: A far removal for wrongdoing folk!

SHAKIR: And it was said: O earth, swallow down your water, and O cloud, clear away; and the water was made to abate and the affair was decided, and the ark rested on the Judi, and it was said: Away with the unjust people.

Do you know better than them? If Noah´s Ark is on Ararat, it proves Quran is wrong. As a muslim you shouldn´t believe it is on Ararat. I think this whole Noah´s Ark thing is fake. ( By the way I am a follower of only science)

Sure you have problems of understanding, you have blinkers maybe, such bad for a man of science. Why do you think in the commentaries you gave Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shakir or any others; some put directly word mount before Al judi, some in paranthesis, some never put it? Let me tell you, because there is not an Arabic word there that means mount, so these are the commentaries of translators. But linguist say al judi is not necessarily points out a special mount name, it can also mean "high place or hill". How do you know when the Quran revealed today´s mount Judi is also called as mount Judi? Addition to these one more info for you, for hundreds of years judi was the name of a ridge on mount Ararat. There is also al judi in Saudi Arabia. Now tell me how can anyone discredit Quran since it does not tell what al judi actually is? Meanwhile where did i say i believe it was rested on the mount that all we know today as mount Ararat? Who said that i believe it was on the mount that people expect to find today? And where did i say the remainings of Ark can be found on Ararat or any mountain, or really can be found? All your hallucinations with your blinkers?

By the way the commentary about the explanation of region Ararat was by Muhammad Asad, islamic scholar and linguist, not my invention, so who knows better? Below is another commentary by Shabbir, read the paranthesis at the end;

"And ark came to rest upon the Mount Al Judi. And it was said, " Away with the opressors of the weak."(The ship came to rest at Judea, in the hills of Ararat, east of the Tigris river)

http://www.aliaksoy.net/2008/05/11/nuhun-gemisinin-son-rihtimi-cudi/

I guess you dont read. Check this also: http://www.defending-islam.com/page133.html 

I guess you dont read as well, does this clearly says and proves its on mount Judi or talking about possibility?

 Most of the Islamic academicians belive it must be on Judi Mountain. I showed you my documents. I don´t have more to say. Believe what you believe. I don´t believe such an Ark has ever existed. Have a nice day.

gokuyum, can you say anything in your own words?

 yes "forever science"

...Another question... what did they eat on the ark...strictly vegetarian? I like a good piece of meat, and I don´t know if I could hold myself back for 40 days. Chicken is so tasty!

Most of the Islamics?? In fact none of them can clearly say it was on today´s mount Judi, all were talking about possibility because of nearness to Mezopotamia.

Here is what famous Elmalılı said in his commentary;

"Cudi: Engince bir dağdır ki, Musulda denilmiş, El Cezire´de, Amid´de, Şam´da denilmiş. Ebu Hayyan diyor ki, Cezire´de veya Amid´de denilmesi Musul´s yakınlığı dolayısıyladır. Bir de denilmiş ki, Cudi her dağa söylenebilen bir cins ismidir."

So you just voiced a myth which rooted on people´s mind because of mountain´s name, nothing credible and nothing more. And obviously i wont ask you what i believe in or not...

Not only Islamics but Jew and Christian academics and reverands too. I can´t count all of them. Look below.

 KİLDANİ KAYNAKLAR

BEROSSUS: Bir Kildani büyücü, rahip ve tarihçi. (İ.Ö. 3.yy)da, Berossus , Babil tufanının bir başka versiyonunu rivayet eder. Bu rivayete göre gemi, Urartu’ da karaya oturmuştur ve geminin bazı parçaları, hala Urartu’ daki Gordyaeans (Cudi) dağlarındadır. Berossus, anlatımına şöyle devam eder. Bazıları, gemiyi kazıyarak zift aldılar ve bunu tılsım yapmada kullandılar. Berossus ‘a göre, Cudi Dağı, hem Gordyaean Dağları’ nda hem de antik Ermenistan (Urartu) sınırındadır.

HIRİSTİYAN KAYNAKLAR

EUSEBİUS: (İ.S. 3.yy)’da yaşayan,ilk kiliselerin pederlerinden biridir. Gemi ‘nin küçük bir parçasının, kendi zamanında, Gardian (Cudi) dağlarında olduğunu söyler.

THE PERSHITTA: Pershitta, Suriyeli Hıristiyanların kullandıkları İncildir. Bu İncilde, Tekvin 8/14′te, Nuh ‘un Gemisi ‘nin, karaya oturduğu yer olarak Quardu(Cudi) Dağı ‘nı yazar.

BİZANSIN FAUTUSU: Fautus , (İ.S. 4 .yy)’da yaşayan bir tarihçidir. Bir ermeni tarihçisi olarak bilinmesine rağmen, aslı yunanlıdır. Orjinal çalışmaları kaybolmuştur. Ancak, çalışmasının tercümeleri günümüze kadar ulaşmıştır. Notlarından birinde, Nusaybinli keşiş St. Jakop’tan bahseder. St. Jacop, ALLAH ‘tan kendisine Nuh’un Gemisi’ ni göstermesini istemiş, ALLAH ‘ta, bir melek vasıtasıyla, geminin tahtalarından küçük bir parça göstermiştir. Fautus, bu olayın Cudi Dağı ‘nda gerçekleştiğini yazar. Zaten Nusaybin’de, Cudi Dağına 70 mil mesafede bir kasabadır. (İ.S. 10.yy)a kadar, tüm Ermeni kaynaklar, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nin, Ermenistan’ın güneyinde bir yerde olduğunu söyler.

EPİPHANIUS: Selanik patriği , (İ.S. 4yy)’de yaşamış, din düşmanlarına karşı oldukça etkili olmuştur. Gemi’ nin, Gordian (Cudi) Dağlarında olduğunu belirtmiştir. Ve birinin dikkatli incelemesi halinde, Nuh’un Sunağı’ nı görebileceğini eklemiştir.

EUTYCHIUS : (İ.S. 9.yy)’da yaşamış, İskenderiye patriğidir. Şöyle demiştir:

“Gemi, Ararat Dağlarına oturmuştu. O dağ da Musul ‘un yanındaki, Cebel Cudi ‘dir. Musul antik Ninova ‘nın yanında bir şehirdir ve Cudi Dağı’nın 80 mil güneyindedir.

İSLAMİ KAYNAKLAR

KUR’AN: Kur’an derki: Gemi geldi ve Cudi ‘ye oturdu. (11/44). Modern İslam ansiklopedisinde, Cudi Dağı ‘nı referans gösterir.

AL-MASUDİ: (İ.S. 10.yy)’da yaşamıştır. ” Gemi geldi ve Cudi’ye oturdu. Tigris’e (Dicle), 8 fersah uzaklıktadır.” 8 fersah, 25-30 mil karşılığıdır. Bu mesafede, ölçülünce sizi tam olarak Cudi Dağı ‘na götürür.

İBN HAUKAL : (İ.S. 10.yy)da yaşamıştır. Cudi’nin Nusaybin kasabasının yanında olduğunu belirtmiştir. Ayrıca Nuh ‘un, dağın dibinde bir köy kurduğunu da eklemiştir.

İBN AL-MİD: (İ.S. 13.yy)’da yaşamıştır. 7.yy’da imparator olan Herakliyus ‘un bölgeyi görmek için, Cudi Dağı ‘na tırmanmak istediğini yazmıştır.

ZAKARIYA BIN MUHAMMED AL-KAZWINE: (İ.S. 13.yy)’da yaşamış bir Müslüman coğrafyacıdır. Gemi ‘nin tahtaları kullanılarak, bir manastır inşa edildiğini kaydetmiştir. Yer belirtmemiştir.

YAHUDİ KAYNAKLAR

SAMİRİ TEVRATI (İlk beş kitap): Samirilerin kabul ettiği, Tevrat ‘ın sadece ilk beş kitabından oluşan bu metne göre, Nuh’un Gemi ’si, Kuzey Asur bölgesinde bulunan Kürt (Cudi ) Dağları’nda, karaya oturmuştur.

TARGUM: Targum metinleri, Yahudiler, Babil ‘deki ilk sürgünden döndüklerinde, Aramice yazılmış metinlerdir. 3 Targum vardır: Onkelos , Neofiti ve Pseudo Jonatan. Bunların üçüde geminin karaya oturma yerini, Quardu Dağları (Kürt Dağları olarak belirtir.

JOSEPHUS: (İ.S. 1.yy)’da yaşamış, Roma İmparatorluğuna sadık bir Yahudi tarihçidir. Gerçek bir entelektüeldir ve Pavlos ile de çağdaştır. Roma İmparatorluğu’nun resmi görevli tarihçisi olduğu için, zamanının tüm kütüphane ve arşivlerine rahatça ulaşabiliyordu. Kitaplarında, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nden 3 yerde bahsetmiştir. Josephus, Nuh’un Gemisi ‘nin karaya oturduğu yeri, kesinlikle Cudi Dağı olarak belirtmiştir.

BENJAMİN OF TUDELA: ( İ.S.12.yy)’da yaşamıştır. Seyahat ettiğinde, şöyle yazmıştır. Eski şehrin kalıntıları, Cezire bin Ömer’ e, 2 günlük mesafede bulunan Tigris (Dicle) deki Ararat dağındadır. Ömer bin El Hattab, Gemi ‘yi zirveden aldı ve ondan cami yaptırdı.(Bu da, Cudi’ye Ararat dendiğinin bir delilidir.)

Hope this will end our discussion: http://www.testimony-magazine.org/back/sep2001/benson2.pdf

Not only Muslims, some Christians and Jews believe it is on Judi mountain. I will say no more. I am not an expert.

The first person to identify the mountain now known as Ararat as the place where the Ark came to rest was a traveller called Vincent de Beauvais in the thirteenth century. Other travellers, such as Marco Polo, took it for granted that this was correct, and it has become an accepted fact. However, before this the Ark was believed to have come to rest on a much lower peak, situated well to the south. This mountain is a peak about 6,000 feet (2,000 metres) high called Judi (or Chudi) Dagh, situated north of the Iraqi city of Mosul in the Iraq/Turkey border area.1 It is part of the Zagreb mountain range, which rears into the sky to the northeast of the Tigris valley. Both Josephus and the Koran say that the Ark came to rest on Mount Judi. On this mountain a Kurdish tribe called the Yezidis were found by travellers in the early part of last century to be offering sacrifices commemorating the ones offered by Noah when he left the Ark (Gen. 8:2.

The Nestorian church built monasteries on the slopes of Judi Dagh, and one on its summit, because of its association with Noah. An ancient Jewish legend says that the Assyrian emperor
Sennacherib reverenced a plank of wood which came from the Ark, and there are Assyrian carvings of Sennacherib cut into the rocks of Judi Dagh. The third-century-B.C. Babylonian historian Berossus said that the Ark came to rest in the land of the Kurds, which in those times was the area where Judi Dagh is, not the area further north where Mount Ararat is located.
Soon after Noah and his sons went forth from the Ark we read of Noah planting a vineyard
and becoming drunk from the wine, perhaps through ignorance of its effect. Ancient traditions
say that wine first appeared in Urartu, and the earliest archaeological evidence of wine
comes from this area, in the form of an ancient earthenware pot in which traces of wine sediment were found.

The coming to rest of the Ark on a mountain just above the Tigris/Euphrates valley is, of
course, consistent with the account in Genesis of the first cities after the Flood being founded in that valley. According to history the first urban settlements in that area were founded by a people known as the Sumerians, and the view has been put forward, though not generally accepted, that the name Sumer is derived from Noah’s son Shem.

Hey barba_mama, I am asuming that they ate LOTS of fish, it´s the only thing that did not drown

Maybe Ararat is the other name of Judi Mountain not Judi is the other name of Ararat Mountain.Maybe both of them are true but in a different way

So this discussion ends. See you in other discussions. Bye. (Long live science)

Good for you gokuyum, at least you reached what i said after a while...

 You misundertood me again. According to documents even some Jews and some Christians believe it is on Judi Mountain. Maybe by saying Ararat Torah mentions Judi Mountain. Shortly it must be found on Judi Mountain according to Quran not Ararat mountain. So this whole think is a fake according to Quran and by defending the opposite you are declaring Quran is wrong. Deal with it. You lost the discussion. Be brave enought to admit defeath. Don´t make wordplays. I showed you many documents. Last document was a killer. ( http://www.testimony-magazine.org/back/sep2001/benson2.pdf) Accept the defeat honestly. I am defending Quran as an agnostic but you try to prove it wrong. What a weird world.

You actually dont know what you say. I dont defend anything and where did i declare Quran is wrong? Again hallucination?I just said Quran does not tell exactly what al judi is, people interpret this as mount Judi, many Islamic scholars say the same, do they declare Quran is wrong? Shorly it can be on today´s mount Judi according to some scholars but according to some it  is not clear where it was rested.

Lastly gokuyum, sorry to say but it seems you dont know anything about the subject. It can be clearly understood from the quotes in your post, how can a follower of science put those here as a quote? Besides there was no discussion because you were unable to answer any of my questions except quoting some nondescript heresays here.  In my opinion you as a big follower of science should stay away from this kind of topics otherwise yourself damage your forever science charisma here badly...

 Don´t make me laugh 

 I don´t know where Nuh´s ark landed on. But I know for sure that Science has nothing to do with religions. If you think quoting things from the documents you find here and there is a scientific method, you are terribly wrong then.

I don´t believe such an ark has ever existed. I don´t believe you can find it on Judi Mountain or on Ararat Mountain. It is impossible to exist such an ark. Every pair of animals in an ark. Is it possible? I say long live science because only science can show us the facts. But I respect your beliefs. I am surprized how Muslims can defend it is on Mount Ararat. I showed documents but they believe what they believe. One day when  this ark thing is explained as a fake, I think they will make wordplays and say I never believed it. The main problem of most people they don´t argue with documents. They underestimate documents and one who argues with documents. They say can´t you express yourself with your own sentences. Yes i can but it will take me nowhere untill i talk with proofs. I use quotes in my discussions to end them quickly. I don´t like talking based on my ass. I am not a scientist also. I only love science. Some people try to insult me saying I am a bad science man. But they even don´t respect good scientists. They see them destroyers of world. So how can I discuss with them? They insult everything. All they do is insulting with their assumptions. I explain them facts patiently but all i get at the and is a laughter. I will not discuss anymore. Because you make every discussion a personal matter. You don´t want anybody to criticize you. You want people to say you are always right. Some of you blame westerners and try to show us like angels, some of you insult gypsies and expect to be appreciated some of you curse science and want nobody say anything. Be more open minded. Appreciate opposite ideas. I dont know what is wrong with you. I will never discuss with you. Have a nice day.

 Should we go down on our knees before you and begging to be forgiven? You sound like a little boy saying, "everyone blames me". You really don´t know what are you talking about. You say, "you don´t want anybody to criticize you". How do you like to be criticized? Shouldn´t we approach others with criticism in the same manner in which we would like to be criticized? I hate to bring a debate to a personal level. It is clear that you see no objection in doing so.

Coming back to the ark. You are free whether to belive or not. But how can you say, "one day when this ark thing is explained as fake". You are even not aware of the difference between faith and science. If I am muslim and believe in Quran, and if Quran says the ark exists, how could you make me believe otherwise? Science requires answer while faith does not. You are constantly talking about Science, but, please don´t be offended, you don´t know any about it.

I agree, actually gokuyum´s last post deserves a good reply but i wont do it after scalpel´s balanced post. No need to say more...

Here´s the official website with pictures.

http://www.noahsarksearch.net/eng/

I liked the pics of huge chambers made of huge partly fossilized timbers.