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Gengiz Khan and Turkic people?
(36 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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10.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:25 am

 

Quoting vineyards

I often withstand this torment quite nicely. You must give me a break sometimes. I have been hearing this stuff for 30 years and it doesn´t get anywhere.

I understand that, sorry.

 

As for the mod stuff. It is more of a liability. I have never abused this title. I could pass it on anyone who thinks he could make time for it.  I understand that too and I took care not to use the word ´abuse´ as it´s a little strong and harsh.  I wouldn´t like the job of a moderator and I respect the time you put in.  But, only on this occasion, you seemed to be prodding the sleeping dog.  Don´t you value the peace and quiet, even for a few minutes?

 

I don´t know how to get more than one boxed quote in a single post .

thehandsom liked this message
11.       lemon
1374 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:27 am

You silly people! {#emotions_dlg.doh}

We all come from 3 sons of Noah.

12.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:49 am

A few weeks ago my friend told me she thought I looked like a Saxon!!!

 

I´m from the UK, take your pick . . . Angle, Saxon, Jute, Celt, Roman, Viking,

Norman (originally Scandinavian) . . .  erm . . . I think lemon may have a point . . .

13.       vineyards
1954 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:03 am

A geneticist will answer Alameda´s question more accurately. Nevertheless, here is what I know:

 

* People are like gene soups, they carry cromosoms from diversified sources.

* Russian,Kazakh and Kirgiz people are genetically close to Mongolians.

* Turks in modern Turkey share genes with almost all the neighboring countries. A recent study found that the Asian connection Turks keep talking about has  no genetic evidence. It is indeed one of the least dominant gene groups.

* Mongolian genes are to be found in all of Asia and Most of Europe hence America. Mongolian repeatedly occupied vast lands in Asia and Europe leaving behind their genes.

 

For 100 Euros you could trace your genetical past down to 11th century. Check out these:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090528000944AApLVBc

http://www.igenea.com/

 

 

 

 

14.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 03:04 am

Actually, there is a story and a theory behind Chengiz Khan relating to Turks.
In Ottoman times, Ottoman were not particularly keen of these Chengiz, Atilla type tribal/nomadic warriors. They considered themselves more advanced and established in southern europe/anatolia/africa as opposed to nomadic tribes. The Ottomans  saw themselves as the continuation  of the Roman empire!!


When Ottomans started to lose the wars, constant humiliation was the feeling amongs the ´freshly bred nationalists Turks´. They wanted to associate the nationalism with the heroic figures.. Chengiz, Atilla were very suitable names for the purpose of ´heroic warriors Turks´.

But Chengiz was a bit problematic as he was a Mongolian and he belonged to yellow race. But being in yellow race was not popular of course.. You can find many writings about Turks belonging to white race from the time. (we are talking about the time from  1890s )
So the problem of Chengiz Khan being a Mongolian was sorted out in 1932 in the first  Turkish  History  Congress by Afet Inan :

She declared that Chengiz Khan was actually from a Turkish tribe and the name ´mogol´-mongolian- was given to him later on. Of course once you have the intentions you ignore the evidence!!
So it is like ´If Mohammed will not go to the mountain, the mountain must come to ...´ type incident..

Later on even Ataturk got worried about this ´Turks´ equals ´warriors´ simplicity, he himself tried to associate Turks with civilizations..But because of ´the army was the leader for creating the republic´ army nation/ warrior Turks become more and more prominent..
       
       

15.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 04:48 am

You are probably quite correct.....this is a question for a geneticist....however, when I wrote Turk...it was in the context of Türkic, not Turkish. As I understand, Turks (citizens of Turkey) are not necessarily Türkic. You have Traki peoples, Laz, Çerkiz and whatever remained from the Lycians, Hittites, Hattites and all...plus..many more all blended into what are today citizens of Turkey.

On the other hand, Türkic people are, from what I´ve learned a blend of European, Mongolian people. They are currently the Human migration and interbreeding. I´ve heard the saying, "scratch a Russian and you get a Tartar".

 

There was program here on PBS regarding mans migration out of Africa. The new theory is there were two separate migrations. The last one was the one went to Mongolia then back into Europe. I wish I could find a link, but I´m too lazy now....

 

Scientists said Neanderthal and Cro-Magnons did not interbreed, but recent evidence indicates they did. I´m not at all surprised, given what I´ve seen of humans.

Neanderthal genome reveals interbreeding with humans

neanderthal

"Any human whose ancestral group developed outside Africa has a little Neanderthal in them – between 1 and 4 per cent of their genome, Pääbo´s team estimates. In other words, humans and Neanderthals had sex and had hybrid offspring. A small amount of that genetic mingling survives in "non-Africans" today: Neanderthals didn´t live in Africa, which is why sub-Saharan African populations have no trace of Neanderthal DNA."

Quoting vineyards

A geneticist will answer Alameda´s question more accurately. Nevertheless, here is what I know:

* People are like gene soups, they carry cromosoms from diversified sources.

* Russian,Kazakh and Kirgiz people are genetically close to Mongolians.

* Turks in modern Turkey share genes with almost all the neighboring countries. A recent study found that the Asian connection Turks keep talking about has  no genetic evidence. It is indeed one of the least dominant gene groups.

 

 

16.       lemon
1374 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 09:55 am

Alameda,

What you ve written about neandertal (an invention of poor evolutionists) breeding with humans is utterly absurd and shameless.

What dont they tell you? what dont they make up and paint in order to escpae the truth?

Not everything "scientists" say is a fact. Didnt you know they color everything so that people like you start quoting them just because they carry big titles but in fact they are fairy-tales writers.

 

 

17.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 10:06 am

I always learned that Khan was a Mongol, language wise and simply tracking down the route he took. I don´t know why he would be of Turkic descent. He was born in Modern day Mongolia, in a Mongolian tribe, and later conquered Turkestan (or whatever you want to call it). But what does it matter? We´re all Africans anyway The only way you could try and trace back some heritage lines is by doing exstensive DNA research.

18.       vineyards
1954 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 11:27 am

Not just the genes Barba, there are linguistc and cultural links that hold people together. Frome a linguistic point of view these languages are related to one another this way or  another: Mongolian,Japanese, Korean, Finnish, Turkic Languages. Finnish syntax is so close to Turkish, the syntax is virtually the same, the same agglunative morphology. For example, in Turkish, you would add the word: "mi" or "mu" to turn it into interrogative; in Finnish you do the same thing with "ko". Nouns have cases like Turkish. Yet there is little similarity racially. Arabs and Jews are so close racially that in most case they are practically the same people but they form the opposite poles culturally and politically.

19.       lemon
1374 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 11:38 am

We so called northern people come from Japheth. All European, Mongoloids (turks, chinese, korean, japan) come from Japheth.

Check this out:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah

20.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 04:26 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Not just the genes Barba, there are linguistc and cultural links that hold people together. Frome a linguistic point of view these languages are related to one another this way or  another: Mongolian,Japanese, Korean, Finnish, Turkic Languages. Finnish syntax is so close to Turkish, the syntax is virtually the same, the same agglunative morphology. For example, in Turkish, you would add the word: "mi" or "mu" to turn it into interrogative; in Finnish you do the same thing with "ko". Nouns have cases like Turkish. Yet there is little similarity racially. Arabs and Jews are so close racially that in most case they are practically the same people but they form the opposite poles culturally and politically.

 

I disagree. Culturally the Jews and Arabs are also very similar. If you look at religious rules, background, customs, they are very much the same although the xenophobes among them like to say otherwise. Divide and conquer, right?

And I also said that from a language point of view, the famous Khan was a Mongol.

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