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On Negation
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20.       Abla
3647 posts
 14 Mar 2012 Wed 10:54 am

The derivative suffix –siz denotes negation. It is a productive suffix which means that you can add it to just about any noun (or pronoun) and you will be understood and its use is not limited to certain contexts or words.


-siz makes


1. adjectives: parasız ‘penniless, free of charge’, eşsiz ‘unequalled’, sınırsız ‘unlimited’

2. adverbs: arabasız ‘without a car’, parasız ‘free of charge’, sensiz ‘without you’

3. nouns: telsiz ‘a wireless device’, Hamursuz ‘passover, the Jewish Easter’


Why are police officers called aynasız in slang?

21.       scalpel
1472 posts
 14 Mar 2012 Wed 11:18 am


Quoting Abla

Nejat gençliğinde bu kadar inançlı değildi. ‘Nejat wasn’t this stubborn when he was young.’



inançlı = believer of islam

inatçı = stubborn

22.       scalpel
1472 posts
 14 Mar 2012 Wed 02:02 pm


Quoting Abla

Why are police officers called aynasız in slang?


There are many stories about why they are called aynasız but they are far from the truth..  

I think* they are aynasız because they are asık suratlı, asabi..   

ayna- mirror/ (surface) parlak, pürüzsüz.. 

aynalı - mirrored/ (thing) parlak yüzeyli, güzel; (person) güzel/gülümseyen yüzlü, 

aynasız - (thing) soluk, donuk; (person) asık suratlı, asabi

*nobody has to agree with me on this


23.       scalpel
1472 posts
 14 Mar 2012 Wed 02:14 pm


Quoting Abla



What about these options? Would they be correct?

?[Kimsenin bu kitabı oku|ma|dığı]-nı sanıyorum.

?[Kimsenin bu kitabı oku|ma|dığı]-nı san|mı|yorum.

(I understand the meaning changes if we change the negation pattern, I am merely asking if the ? sentences are grammatical or not, i.e. if I have understood the rule.)


If my memory doesn´t trick me.. I explained it to you some months ago..

Kimsenin bu kitabı okumadığını (-) sanıyorum (+) => (-) kimse okumamış olmalı

Kimsenin bu kitabı okumadığını (-) sanmıyorum (-) => (+) herkes okumuş olmalı


24.       Abla
3647 posts
 14 Mar 2012 Wed 02:38 pm

Well, thank you for your patience, scalpel.

Your explanation of aynasız ´cop´ was in line with grammar. -siz is often the opposite of -li. But when I asked I was expecting something more...colorful.

Edited (3/14/2012) by Abla [Mixed some more things.]

25.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Mar 2012 Thu 05:14 pm

When the meaning ‘without’ is added to a verb there are two options:


1. –mek|siz|in


The derivation suffixes –li and –siz often make oppositions. When added to verbal nouns, though, the old intstrumental case ending –n is added to –siz.


İnsan ağlamaklı oluyor vallahi. ‘One feels like crying.’


Hiçbir akşam ağlamaksızın yatağımda yatamam. ‘I can’t go to sleep any evening and not cry.’


2. –meden


I always thought this is a combination of infinitive marking and dative ending but historically it is not. Lewis says the oldest occurances of this form are the type –meti where the first syllable was probably the negative –me-! With the adding of the instrumental case it became -metin and the end of it was confused with ablative. (It has been mentioned here also http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_51754.)


Ne olur ağlamadan ayrılalım. ‘Please, let’s part without crying.’





Maybe the misunderstanding of the above structure has made me combine ablative case with negation. Oh, but now I remembered another example:


Allah kimseyi hardaldan etmesin. ‘Allah, don’t leave anyone without mustard.’ (Orhan Veli Kanık)

Edited (3/15/2012) by Abla
Edited (3/15/2012) by Abla
Edited (3/15/2012) by Abla

26.       Abla
3647 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 11:00 pm

When there are two verbs in a chain  -  one modifying the other  -  is it always the head which is taking the -mA- negation or can you imagine a situation where the negation could be in the direct/indirect object?


                               ?koşmamak istiyor

                               ?uyumamaya başlıyor

                               ?başarmamaktan korkuyor


I guess it should work with participles but changes the meaning slightly, am I right?


                                ?gelmeyeceğimi düşünüyor

                                geleceğimi düşünmüyor


Probably it depends on the verb but how, that is what I wonder.

Edited (12/17/2012) by Abla

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