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The Meaning of Causative
(30 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       Henry
2604 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 12:24 am

see here

11.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 12:37 am

 

Quoting Abla

But still

 

uyutmak ´to make (someone) sleep´, ´to let/allow (someone) (to) sleep´   

 

or what?

 

 

 

 "uyutmak" has couple of different lexical meaning as you know ;

uyutmak
/ı/
1. to put (someone) to sleep, cause (someone) to sleep.
2. to alleviate, assuage.
3. colloq. to beguile, deceive, hoodwink, fool, pull the wool over (someone´s) eyes.
4. to hypnotize

but the one that relating your question is " to cause someone to sleep " therefore it is positive factitivite form of the verb "uyumak".

The intransitive verb "uyumak" has become transitive "uyutmak" by adding "t" onto verb stem. This kind of verbs are called "oldurgan" fiiller ".[factitivity]

Yatmak   [to sleep]    ---->       yatırmak [to make[to let] someone sleep ]
Ötmek             ----->        öttürmek
Uyumak          ------->        uyutmak
Gezmek  [to walk about] ---->  gezdirmek. [to make someone walk about]
Kaçmak  [to run, to escape,to go away]      ---->  kaçırmak [to make [cause] someone to go away, to let someone escape]

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 



Edited (5/9/2012) by tunci
Edited (5/9/2012) by tunci

12.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 01:32 am

 

The difference between Factitivity and Causitivity in Turkish is ;

The factitive verbs are formed from an intransitive verbs [verbs that dont take an object] and it [verb] becomes transitive [verb that can take an object] by using "-dİr, -t, -r"  suffixes;

Uyumak --> To sleep --> Ben uyudum [ no object in this sentence]

Uyutmak -->  Çocuğu uyuttum [I made the child sleep ] --> Object is "the child"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The causitive verbs are formed from already transitive verbs [verbs that takes object] and it [verb] still stays transitive by adding same suffixes "-dİr, -t, -r" .

Note that we can increase the transitiviness level of the verb by adding another suffix !

içmek ---> içirmek [to make someone to drink something] --> içirtmek [ to get someone to get someone to drink something

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In causitive forms we get [hire] someone to do the action whereas in factitive forms the person himself/herself perform [we dont get anyone to do] the action.

Çocuğu uyuttum --> I made the child [fall in] to sleep. --> Here I MYSELF made the child to sleep.

Dadıya bebeği uyutturdum --> I got nany to make the child [fall in ] to sleep.--> Here I GOT NANY to make the child to sleep.

 

 

  

 



Edited (5/9/2012) by tunci
Edited (5/9/2012) by tunci

Moha-ios and Abla liked this message
13.       Henry
2604 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 01:34 am

Another causative verb for learners

uyandırmak

Yarın sabah saat yedide beni uyandırır mısın?

Will you wake me up at 7 o´clock tomorrow morning?

uyanmak = to wake up

uyandırmak = to wake (someone) up, to cause (someone) to wake up

14.       Abla
3647 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 01:53 am

Thank you for your patient replies, Henry, tunci.

 

I believe you but still the meaning of uyutmamak surprises me. If I say

 

                                   Çocuğu henüz uyutmadım

 

does it mean ´I still didn´t let the child sleep´ ?

 

What if I simply want to say ´I didn´t put the child to sleep yet´ ?

15.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 02:01 am

 

Quoting Abla

Thank you for your patient replies, Henry, tunci.

 

I believe you but still the meaning of uyutmamak surprises me. If I say

 

                                   Çocuğu henüz uyutmadım

 

does it mean ´I still didn´t let the child sleep´ ?

 

What if I simply want to say ´I didn´t put the child to sleep yet´ ?

 

In that context, it is exactly what you thought Abla. Uyutmak also can mean "to put the baby to sleep [by singing] " 

 

 

16.       Abla
3647 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 02:05 am

So there are two possible interpretations for the negation. Depends on the context. I got what I wanted.

 

A sleepy topic. Good night.

17.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 02:09 am

 

For instance ;

Ye-mek --> to eat

Yedirmek can mean "to make someone to eat something" OR " to let someone to eat something " OR " to feed " [in this context in english it is an independent  verb [to feed]

and if we negate it, yedirmemek can mean " not to let someone to eat something" OR " not to make someone to eat something " OR " not to feed someone "

 

18.       si++
3785 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 09:49 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

it basically means " not to let someone to sleep "

                        " not to let someone fall into sleep"

Yan komşudaki parti o kadar sesliydi ki sabaha kadar beni uyutmadı --> The party at next door neighbour was so loud that it didnt let me[ fall into] sleep.

 

 

 

 

 

This reminds me the following thread started by Abla:

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_50959_3

 

See for example post#28.

19.       Abla
3647 posts
 09 May 2012 Wed 04:54 pm

Quote:tunci

Yedirmek can mean "to make someone to eat something" OR " to let someone to eat something " OR " to feed " [in this context in english it is an independent  verb [to feed]

and if we negate it, yedirmemek can mean " not to let someone to eat something" OR " not to make someone to eat something " OR " not to feed someone "

 

As a result, causative seems to be quite flexible what comes to the willingness of the patient. The "causing" can mean just about anything from forcing to allowing or giving a chance. It looks like pure grammar but it has a lot to do with the context.

 

This discussion cleared things for me at least.



Edited (5/9/2012) by Abla

20.       Abla
3647 posts
 12 May 2012 Sat 06:14 pm

Quote:tunci

Note that we can increase the transitiviness level of the verb by adding another suffix !

içmek ---> içirmek [to make someone to drink something] --> içirtmek [ to get someone to get someone to drink something

 

Does the double causative marking always have to be taken literally? I mean does there have to be patient1 who causes patient2 to perform an action that the agent has ordered. Or can this double marking be used for just stylistic reasons?

 

In case there are patient1 and patient2 and you want to name them both how do you mark them? Do they both take dative? For instance,

 

              I (NOM) told the nurse (DAT) to make the boy (DAT) take the medicine (ACC)

 

or how is it?

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