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Yapmak or Etmek??? please!!
(28 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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20.       aslan2
507 posts
 21 Aug 2006 Mon 07:37 am

Quoting slavica:

Aslan2, you give excellent, professional explanations, thanks a lot

Are you a teacher?



No, I am not. But I like learning languages so I also try to learn my native language better. That's it. I have not covered everything on the subject but for beginners it should be OK.

21.       aslan2
507 posts
 21 Aug 2006 Mon 07:39 am

Quoting Dilara:

Quoting slavica:

Aslan2, you give excellent, professional explanations, thanks a lot

Are you a teacher?


Good poınt!!
I thınk Aslan2 ıs a teacher too! ıf not, he should , serıously!! great job!!



Actually you got me going. I wouldn't write this much if you didn't ask more questions.

22.       scalpel
1472 posts
 21 Aug 2006 Mon 03:57 pm

23.       erdinc
2151 posts
 21 Aug 2006 Mon 08:16 pm

Quoting scalpel:

There is no auxiliary verb in Turkish like is,has,etc in English



This is true. I didn't say our auxiliaries are same as in English. No, they are not. They are completely different.

Like I said before, our auxiliaries are used to create verbs out of nouns by being located next to the noun.

Once again I repeat the same example:

"dans etmek" is an infinitive. You can use this infinitive as a verb like in "Ben dans ediyorum" or you can use it as noun like in "Dans etmek istiyorum". In all cases "etmek" in dans etmek is an auxiliary verb.

Here is a list of auxiliary verbs in Turkish from TDK.
http://www.tdk.org.tr/tdksozluk2/SOZBUL.ASP
On the search menu choose "yardımcı fiil" and at the end you should see a screen like in this picture:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5641/yardimcifiillerpx0.jpg

Our Turkish speaking members can learn more on auxiliary verbs in this article:
http://www.tdk.org.tr/ham027.html

Quoting Prof. Dr. Hamza ZÃœLFİKAR:

Etmek, olmak, eylemek, kılmak yardımcı fiilleri


Quoting Prof. Dr. Hamza ZÃœLFİKAR:

Yardımcı fiil veya yardımcı eylem dediğimiz bu birkaç fiil, isim sınıfına giren Türkçe ve yabancı kökenli kelimeleri işletmeye yarar. ... Yardımcı fiiller, yalnızca Türkçede bulunmaz; çağdaş batı dillerinden İngilizcede auxiliary verb, Fransızcada verb auxiliaire, Almancada Hilfsverb adlarıyla birer konu olarak yer alırlar


Quoting Prof. Dr. Hamza ZÃœLFİKAR:

Olmak, etmek, eylemek ünlü ile başlayan birer yardımcı fiildir



Our auxiliary verbs also exist as ordinary verbs. This is smillar to "do" and "have" in English.

Examples:

Vermek is ordinary verb here:
Kalemi bana ver. (Give me the pencil)

Vermek is auxiliary verb here:
Geri döneceğine söz ver. (Promise [söz ver] that you will return)

The predicate in the last sentense is "söz vermek" (to give his word).

If you think vermek in "söz vermek", yapmak in "numara yapmak", olmak in "şok olmak", etmek in "teşekkür etmek" is not auxiliary verb you are wrong. There are lots of examples for auxiliary verbs in Turkish in that article mentioned above.

You can do your own search. Use "yardımcı fiil" as keyword.

Quoting scalpel:

Yapmak, almak, etc,are ordinary verbs like drive,make,etc.in English.


This is not exactly true. I understand that English langauge teachers in Turkia think that way but this is not exactlu the case. They can be ordinary verbs or auxiliary verbs.

There is a good article on this issue here:
http://tdk.gov.tr/turkdili/temmuz2005/dogruyazalim.htm

Yapmak is ordinary verb here:
Resim yapmak, ayakkabı yapmak, liman yapmak, yol yapmak, film yapmak etc.

Yapmak is ordinary verb here as well:
master yapmak, doktora yapmak, analiz yapmak

In all these examples yapmak remains its ordinary meaning: to do, to make, to create, to process.

But here yapmak is an auxiliary verb:
"laf yapmak" , "park yapmak" , "şekerleme yapmak".

'Almak' in 'duş almak' is auxiliary verb. This is typical since is makes a verb out of a noun originated from another language. Auxiliary verbs in Turkish usually make verbs of Arabic nouns. "Teşekkür etmek" is the most famous example.

But I agree it is not always easy to decide when yapmak is auxiliary or ordinary verb.

Quote:

Aslında bir esas fiil olan yapmak özellikle son dönemlerde batıdan gelen isimlerin fiil biçimlerini oluşturmak için yardımcı fiil olarak kullanılmıştır. Bu akım günümüzde de artan bir hızla devam etmektedir. Örneklerden birkaçı şunlardır: kampanya yapmak, kur yapmak, diyet yapmak, koordinasyon yapmak, pike yapmak, demagoji yapmak, analiz yapmak, rezervasyon yapmak, sponsorluk yapmak vb. Burada bizi zorlayan şey bu örneklerin hangisinde yapmak esas fiil, hangisinde yardımcı fiil oluşudur.

24.       aslan2
507 posts
 22 Aug 2006 Tue 08:10 am

I don't think this auxillary verbs discussion is good for the regulars here, whose L1 language is not Turkish. It has been confusing. Yes there are some verbs in Turkish that we call them "yardımcı fiiller" (literally helper verbs) but grammatically they are not different from any other verb in Turkish. They are all conjugated the same way.

So they should be memorized as a whole with the noun they follow.
Yardım etmek -- (yardım et)-mek
Dans etmek -- (dans et)-mek
etc

Some of them are even written as one word.
hissetmek -- to feel
kaybetmek -- to lose

This is like learning the words of a language with gender (like Italian or French). Usually, you are advised to learn the words together with the article.

Ex from Italian:
La mano (hand) not mano
Il piede (foot) not piede

25.       erdinc
2151 posts
 22 Aug 2006 Tue 09:27 am

Quoting aslan2:

I don't think this auxillary verbs discussion is good for the regulars here



I agree there has been too much detail on this discussion. Ideally I should have all possible the topics listed as articles and when there is a discussion I would just say look at 4.55.7. This would be indeed very relieving.

I think the auxiliary verb issue is very important for the learners. In most cases when looking to a sentence a learner will not recognise the verb or predicate correctly among other words if not having heard about auxiliaries.

example:
"Sana çok teşekkür ederim."
This is a verb sentence. This means the predicate is a verb. There is one verb in this sentence that is at the same time the predicate. What is it? Is it 'ederim'? No. It is "teşekkür ederim". If you haven't heard about etmek being an auxiliary how are you going to recognize the verb correctly? Learners think 'etmek', (ederim, ediyorum, etti etc.) is an ordinary verb. This is wrong. Etmek is almost never an ordinary verb and is almost always an auxiliary.

26.       scalpel
1472 posts
 22 Aug 2006 Tue 03:59 pm


27.       jilee911
1 posts
 29 Jul 2015 Wed 02:33 am

I feel so dumb. I still don´t quite get it

28.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 30 Jul 2015 Thu 03:06 pm

 

Quoting jilee911

I feel so dumb. I still don´t quite get it

 

Instead of trying to understand grammar, I would start to read simple Turkish texts and try to understand them. I dont really think focusing on learning grammar can help you to learn the language a lot. For example I dont know how to conjugate a verb in Farsi or I dont even know the difference between past and present tense but when I read a simple Farsi text, I can still guess what some sentences mean. I am sure in time my grammar knowledge will increase too. Yep this is my manifesto for the learners. Do as I say



Edited (7/30/2015) by gokuyum
Edited (7/30/2015) by gokuyum

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