Turkey |
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Turkey in EU
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| 90. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:42 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting Trudy: Quoting CANLI: You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?
You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ? |
I didn't say Egypt is not a free democratic country. I was wondering about you words 'saying anything we like'. That's all. And why should I want you to 'learn' of 'our' experiences? You have yours, we have ours. I don't think you should give up anything in YOUR country. But to follow your example of France - difficult, it's not my country - I think people should adjust to common standards in the country they live in. And if there are rules, like no scarfs (you're referring to that) in public (!!) schools, well, then that's the rule. In private schools you can do/say/wear what you like, that's fine to me. |
İ wasnn't refering to you,i meant YOU ,by West.
How come Trudy ?
Scarf to us part of our religion,its not some cloth we wear,its part of our believes,how can we gave up our believes when we change the place we are in ?
As if you say,when i leave my country,and be in another,i can stop fasting Ramazan,i can stop praying.
What kind of believe is that ?!
İts not like changing my hair style ''which make me wonder where is RAİN ''its like giving up part of your believes.
They respect the rules ofcourse,but rules shouldn't interfear with their believes or personal choices.
But right from the begining,why there is such a rule preventing Muslims from wearing headscarves ?
Only Muslims wear head scarves,so this rule has been put for Muslims,right ? |
yes,they have been excluded by preventing them from wearing headscarves..
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| 91. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:48 pm |
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Then they are not in the place to accept or reject Türkiye from joining the EU,because they are not that perfect themselves,
Right ?
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| 92. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:58 pm |
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision.
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| 93. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:01 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Then they are not in the place to accept or reject Türkiye from joining the EU,because they are not that perfect themselves,
Right ? |
yes i already stated that several times..
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| 94. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:01 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
You're right. It's not compulsory to wear a headscarf, just encouraged. As far as I know way back in time it had something to do with protecting the hair from dirt etc. Later it developed into the cultural symbol we know it as.
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| 95. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:03 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
well the exact wording in my quran(english translation) is that your 'adornments' must be covered, usually hair is included as a female 'adornment' in islam..i don't read arabic hence why mine is an english translation..
but i do believe that it if someone wants to wear a headscarf they should not be prevented from doing so...
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| 96. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:03 pm |
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Quoting azade: Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
You're right. It's not compulsory to wear a headscarf, just encouraged. As far as I know way back in time it had something to do with protecting the hair from dirt etc. Later it developed into the cultural symbol we know it as. |
Therefore there is no exclusion, as Canli suggested.
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| 97. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:03 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Scarf to us part of our religion,its not some cloth we wear,its part of our believes,how can we gave up our believes when we change the place we are in ?
As if you say,when i leave my country,and be in another,i can stop fasting Ramazan,i can stop praying.
What kind of believe is that ?!
İts not like changing my hair style ''which make me wonder where is RAİN ''its like giving up part of your believes.
They respect the rules ofcourse,but rules shouldn't interfear with their believes or personal choices.
But right from the begining,why there is such a rule preventing Muslims from wearing headscarves ?
Only Muslims wear head scarves,so this rule has been put for Muslims,right ? |
I can't talk about why and who of rules in France, I'm not French. Here in Holland scarfs are okay in most cases. A few exceptions: when it's dangerous (e.g. working with heavy machinery and the loose ends of a scarf could get in and you'll get hurt), in justice places like courthouses because of the fact of being independent (though I don't think that NOT wearing a scarf would make one more independent, I can't read peoples minds) and some private places don't accept - like shops or pharmacies, though there are supermarket chains who allow at least if the women wear the scarf with the colors of the shop - like a uniform piece. Women at 'my' supermarket - I live in a multicultural part of town - with scarfs all have the same red & black one, each worn in a personal way.
Personally I don't have big problems with scarfs, I do have with niqaab. They are forbidden at almost all schools, because you cannot communicate very well when you can't see someones face, can you?
And I don't say you have to give up believes. I say with certain believes you have to accept there are limitations, belonging to the country you live in. And that's not only for Muslims. E.g. if you are a very strict Christian who does not want to work on Sundays, you know some jobs (hospital, police, some shops etc.) are not yours.
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| 98. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:06 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
Ofcourse,in Qur'an.
Ohhh,come onnn,do you really believe all those women all over the world put a headscarf cause of men,or culture decisions ?
İts an order from ALLAH ,written in Qur'an,thats why.
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| 99. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:08 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
Ofcourse,in Qur'an.
Ohhh,come onnn,do you really believe all those women all over the world put a headscarf cause of men,or culture decisions ?
İts an order from ALLAH ,written in Qur'an,thats why.
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its not in my english translation.....and as i already said i cant read arabic so i cant read the arabic that is there
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| 100. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 05:09 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting aenigma x: Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision. |
Ofcourse,in Qur'an.
Ohhh,come onnn,do you really believe all those women all over the world put a headscarf cause of men,or culture decisions ?
İts an order from ALLAH ,written in Qur'an,thats why.
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You are the first muslim to tell me this, Canli. Everyone else has told me it is NOT written in the Qur'an. Are you telling me that all the many muslim women who DO NOT wear a headscalf are going against Islam? Perhaps this subject is somewhat vague...
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