Turkey |
|
|
|
|
|
Turkey in EU
|
| 80. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 03:58 pm |
|
Quote: Quoting Lapinkulta:
And again, don't misunderstand me, freedom of speech to me does NOT mean everyone can say anything they like. There is always something like politeness and common sense. Though I am happy to live in Holland, I don't think 'our' way of thinking is holy and the best there is. |
what about in a hospital which is in flemish part, could u be treared well?or could u shout that u are proud of being dutch in flemish region?? |
The Flemish region is in Belgium. Another country it is. I don't know if I can there, I think so, it would be more 'dangerous' to say I'm proud of being Walloon (from the French-speaking part of Belgium).
|
|
| 81. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:02 pm |
|
I know where is the flemish part,walloons etc...and where Belgium is.so it is heart of EU so when an european talks about freedom in Turkey,firstly they have to think about freedome in EU..
|
|
| 82. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:05 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta: I know where is the flemish part,walloons etc...and where Belgium is.so it is heart of EU so when an european talks about freedom in Turkey,firstly they have to think about freedome in EU.. |
Reading is difficult isn't it? I said I DO NOT think 'our' (= western) way of thinking is holy and the best! I said to Canli I am NOT criticizing, just wondering because I don't know and want to compare.
I do not know why you attack me with things I haven't said.
And BTW, please do not generalize all Europeans. If a European says anything about 1 Turk, you get mad and say don't generalize!
|
|
| 83. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:11 pm |
|
Quoting Trudy:
Canli, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticizing or arguing, just wondering. You're from Egypt, aren't you? Can you really say outloud in public what you think? I mean, can you say in public your president sucks? That he's a moron?
Why do I ask this? Because I can say similar things here and no one will harm me or sue me. The only thing I can't say are discriminating things (like all X are Y)- at least I can't say them in all words I choose.
And again, don't misunderstand me, freedom of speech to me does NOT mean everyone can say anything they like. There is always something like politeness and common sense. Though I am happy to live in Holland, I don't think 'our' way of thinking is holy and the best there is. |
İn a limit,yes we can say,but not like you i guess.
İ didn't say we live in highly free and democratic country,but at least when it comes to our believes,and personal choices,no one can ban us or argue with that.
Everyone can do,believe what ever he likes,can wear whatever he likes.
You can cover yourself up,or wear short clothes,no one will sue you too,or refuse you,or won't allow you enter your school or Uni !
You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?
You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ?
|
|
| 84. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:17 pm |
|
Quoting robyn  :
actually i know several people that have visited egypt n when they wore bikinis they were told to go n put more clothes on..not sure how that is being able to wear whatever u want.. |
The Government told them that ?!
İ doubt it !
Dear,we have topless beaches here in our country !
|
|
| 85. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:20 pm |
|
Quoting CANLI: Quoting robyn :
actually i know several people that have visited egypt n when they wore bikinis they were told to go n put more clothes on..not sure how that is being able to wear whatever u want.. |
The Government told them that ?!
İ doubt it !
Dear,we have topless beaches here in our country ! |
wasn't referring to the government that should have been quite obvious..it was several members of hotel staff, again an image of how a person's PERSONAL choice of conduct is not always accepted when a single religion dominates.
|
|
| 86. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:28 pm |
|
Well,no dear,its not about religion this time,its about Traditions,and culture
Hotel stuff said that as an advice for that reason.
We have many Christians too,and they feel same like Muslims too,you would be amazed about it,as they are having one believe.
You would have the same advice,because of our Egyptian Traditions.
Same like when you go to Türkiye,you don't wear so much short clothes ,respecting their Traditions too.
|
|
| 87. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:29 pm |
|
Quoting CANLI: You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?
You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ? |
I didn't say Egypt is not a free democratic country. I was wondering about you words 'saying anything we like'. That's all. And why should I want you to 'learn' of 'our' experiences? You have yours, we have ours. I don't think you should give up anything in YOUR country. But to follow your example of France - difficult, it's not my country - I think people should adjust to common standards in the country they live in. And if there are rules, like no scarfs (you're referring to that) in public (!!) schools, well, then that's the rule. In private schools you can do/say/wear what you like, that's fine to me.
|
|
| 88. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:30 pm |
|
finally someone who accepts that religion and culture are two different things!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
| 89. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:39 pm |
|
Quoting Trudy: Quoting CANLI: You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?
You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ? |
I didn't say Egypt is not a free democratic country. I was wondering about you words 'saying anything we like'. That's all. And why should I want you to 'learn' of 'our' experiences? You have yours, we have ours. I don't think you should give up anything in YOUR country. But to follow your example of France - difficult, it's not my country - I think people should adjust to common standards in the country they live in. And if there are rules, like no scarfs (you're referring to that) in public (!!) schools, well, then that's the rule. In private schools you can do/say/wear what you like, that's fine to me. |
İ wasnn't refering to you,i meant YOU ,by West.
How come Trudy ?
Scarf to us part of our religion,its not some cloth we wear,its part of our believes,how can we gave up our believes when we change the place we are in ?
As if you say,when i leave my country,and be in another,i can stop fasting Ramazan,i can stop praying.
What kind of believe is that ?!
İts not like changing my hair style ''which make me wonder where is RAİN ''its like giving up part of your believes.
They respect the rules ofcourse,but rules shouldn't interfear with their believes or personal choices.
But right from the begining,why there is such a rule preventing Muslims from wearing headscarves ?
Only Muslims wear head scarves,so this rule has been put for Muslims,right ?
|
|
| 90. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 04:42 pm |
|
Quoting CANLI: Quoting Trudy: Quoting CANLI: You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?
You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ? |
I didn't say Egypt is not a free democratic country. I was wondering about you words 'saying anything we like'. That's all. And why should I want you to 'learn' of 'our' experiences? You have yours, we have ours. I don't think you should give up anything in YOUR country. But to follow your example of France - difficult, it's not my country - I think people should adjust to common standards in the country they live in. And if there are rules, like no scarfs (you're referring to that) in public (!!) schools, well, then that's the rule. In private schools you can do/say/wear what you like, that's fine to me. |
İ wasnn't refering to you,i meant YOU ,by West.
How come Trudy ?
Scarf to us part of our religion,its not some cloth we wear,its part of our believes,how can we gave up our believes when we change the place we are in ?
As if you say,when i leave my country,and be in another,i can stop fasting Ramazan,i can stop praying.
What kind of believe is that ?!
İts not like changing my hair style ''which make me wonder where is RAİN ''its like giving up part of your believes.
They respect the rules ofcourse,but rules shouldn't interfear with their believes or personal choices.
But right from the begining,why there is such a rule preventing Muslims from wearing headscarves ?
Only Muslims wear head scarves,so this rule has been put for Muslims,right ? |
yes,they have been excluded by preventing them from wearing headscarves..
|
|
|
