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Hairdresser sued for refusing to hire Muslim woman in a headscarf
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| 100. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 10:45 pm |
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Quoting azade: Quoting Elisabeth: It wouldn't be much fun without these discussions. I enjoy hearing different points of view even if I am at odds with them, in fact the more opposed I am to them, the more interesting I find it. |
As long as we don't listen to eachother or try to be openminded it's really tiring to throw the same slogans at eachother every time so I'm gonna fold. Now if anyone had anything new to bring to the table that would be something else  |
what interesting thing you brought to the table, azade?
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| 101. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 10:53 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade:
Well I knew you were going to throw something like this and it's also the reason I didn't elaborate more, because you're never going to change your view and I'm never going to change mine. We've been through one too many discussions on this forum on this matter, even though it's prohibited. |
azade, you are completely heartless to the opressed women of east, why would you show your compassion to them? anyway you are just guest to the east, right? you are also a guest to the religion. you wouldnt allow yourself completely ruled by the opressing customs, would you? |
femme_fatale I don't find your questions to have much validation. You are assuming all "women of east" are opressed, they are leading horrible lives? Will you ever try to understand that everything in the world is not black and white? west goooood - islam baaaad
I have loads and loads of compassion for anyone who's being opressed it is one of the worst things in the world, so whenever I have the chance I always try to point out that their religion doesn't opress them, maybe their families do. (Some) women who come from a long tradition of islamic life may be deprived of some rights, but (most) women who are converts have studied islam so much that they don't allow themselves to be opressed.
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| 102. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 10:54 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade: Quoting Elisabeth: It wouldn't be much fun without these discussions. I enjoy hearing different points of view even if I am at odds with them, in fact the more opposed I am to them, the more interesting I find it. |
As long as we don't listen to eachother or try to be openminded it's really tiring to throw the same slogans at eachother every time so I'm gonna fold. Now if anyone had anything new to bring to the table that would be something else |
what interesting thing you brought to the table, azade? |
I don't hang around here enough to have to do that
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| 103. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:10 pm |
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Quoting azade: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade: Quoting Elisabeth: It wouldn't be much fun without these discussions. I enjoy hearing different points of view even if I am at odds with them, in fact the more opposed I am to them, the more interesting I find it. |
As long as we don't listen to eachother or try to be openminded it's really tiring to throw the same slogans at eachother every time so I'm gonna fold. Now if anyone had anything new to bring to the table that would be something else |
what interesting thing you brought to the table, azade? |
I don't hang around here enough to have to do that |
then why do you ask for anything interesting? 
i dont expect you to hang around here, if you want to know
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| 104. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:16 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade: Quoting Elisabeth: It wouldn't be much fun without these discussions. I enjoy hearing different points of view even if I am at odds with them, in fact the more opposed I am to them, the more interesting I find it. |
As long as we don't listen to eachother or try to be openminded it's really tiring to throw the same slogans at eachother every time so I'm gonna fold. Now if anyone had anything new to bring to the table that would be something else |
what interesting thing you brought to the table, azade? |
I don't hang around here enough to have to do that |
then why do you ask for anything interesting?
i dont expect you to hang around here, if you want to know |
Thanks I know you don't like people who are different than yourself so I don't really count that comment as anything but ok... it only strengthens what I pointed out earlier about out nice little chatty posts. Brighten up a little
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| 105. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:18 pm |
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Quoting azade:
femme_fatale I don't find your questions to have much validation. You are assuming all 'women of east' are opressed, they are leading horrible lives? Will you ever try to understand that everything in the world is not black and white? west goooood - islam baaaad
I have loads and loads of compassion for anyone who's being opressed it is one of the worst things in the world, so whenever I have the chance I always try to point out that their religion doesn't opress them, maybe their families do. (Some) women who come from a long tradition of islamic life may be deprived of some rights, but (most) women who are converts have studied islam so much that they don't allow themselves to be opressed. |
according to islam you are a half human.
im afraid you havent studied islam good enough to speak on it.
you are just a guest to islam and the east just something exotic to you, you are there for a few times, you dont live there, you were not born there, you havent gone through all opressions and hardships they go through.
when i think of you or others like you this comes to my mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tfK-1oF4I8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6cuXGYw-w&feature=related
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| 106. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:26 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting azade:
femme_fatale I don't find your questions to have much validation. You are assuming all 'women of east' are opressed, they are leading horrible lives? Will you ever try to understand that everything in the world is not black and white? west goooood - islam baaaad
I have loads and loads of compassion for anyone who's being opressed it is one of the worst things in the world, so whenever I have the chance I always try to point out that their religion doesn't opress them, maybe their families do. (Some) women who come from a long tradition of islamic life may be deprived of some rights, but (most) women who are converts have studied islam so much that they don't allow themselves to be opressed. |
according to islam you are a half human.
im afraid you havent studied islam good enough to speak on it.
you are just a guest to islam and the east just something exotic to you, you are there for a few times, you dont live there, you were not born there, you havent gone through all opressions and hardships they go through.
when i think of you or others like you this comes to my mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tfK-1oF4I8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6cuXGYw-w&feature=related
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I just lost any respect that I may have had for you. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I have been through or will be going through in the future and it's so easy for you to sit behind a screen somewhere and judge other people who have actually gone into the world and lived, not only seen, but lived with different cultures. Maybe you wouldn't be so cocky if you came with me one time. You really need to open your eyes.
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| 108. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:37 pm |
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Quoting azade:
I just lost any respect that I may have had for you. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I have been through or will be going through in the future and it's so easy for you to sit behind a screen somewhere and judge other people who have actually gone into the world and lived, not only seen, but lived with different cultures. Maybe you wouldn't be so cocky if you came with me one time. You really need to open your eyes. |
azade, you are a spoiled westerner, thats what i think of you!
and
i never thought you would have respect for me. i usually dont expect. life isnt that nice, to be so naive. should i know tear my hair because i lost your respect?
i dont need to know anything about you, the only information that i know about you that you support islam that is cruel to women, gives me a reason to think so about you. a normal woman who wants to live a normal life shouldnt support a backward religion. thats my opinion wether you like it or not.
i know you are used to gain hand claps and bravo from muslims whenever you praised islam and you enjoy it. but you have also expect there are women like me who will criticise you.
look at this woman. is she lying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLoasfOLpQ
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| 109. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:42 pm |
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Femme you mix up reasoning with faith. Your mind tells you that Islam is wrong, biased towards males etc. For a believer what you are saying doesn't hold any water at all. Because there is no reason in religion there are just revelations which prohibit certain things and allow others. When you believe in God, you do not stand a chance to appear in front of God and say what you are ordering me is wrong. Essentially, your brain is a product of God therefore if God says you are a mob you wouldn't help getting dipped in a bucket and wipe the ground. There are no freedoms in religion except for those granted by God.
You are free to believe in whatever you want but you are not welcome to criticize other believers. I usually think I am a reasonable person who has some intelligence. Do I know what human was made for? I don't have the first idea. I don't know who God is. I don't know what God expects of us. I really don't understand those who have devoted themselves to one of the available options. Nevertheless, I can't claim to know more than they do about what man's duty in this universe is.
Do you sincerely hope to start a new fashion in countries where women voluntarily or unvoluntarily wear hijabs by shouting those slogans? Who will care about your invitations? How do you hope to achieve that before correcting the major failures of those societies in other departments?
Such things require a lot of self-sacrifice; painstaking efforts, years of work and careful planning. Proving that is so easy. Would you devote your personal resources to free one such Afghani woman and watch her transform herself into a Western woman. Unless you physically change her environment and support her for an extended period of time she cannot complete the transformation as quickly as you are implying in your slogans. Were the civilized female population geniunely interested in this problem, there would be people who'd actively fight for this cause and free a number of individuals every year.
Last but not least, slogans can be effective but in the end, it is the deeds that matter. As we Turks say: "Don't pound water in a mortar"
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| 110. |
06 Dec 2007 Thu 11:47 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting azade: Maybe you wouldn't be so cocky if you came with me one time. You really need to open your eyes. |
You think Femme has not experienced other cultures or "lived" in the big wide world? You think she needs to see how your life in Denmark is so different when you visit your boyfriend's family in Turkey and dress up in their clothes and play at being a muslim girl? |
But Aenigma isn't she entitled to doing whatever she wants with her life just like we do. What she does is the best thing for her. It is not up to us to criticize her decisions.
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