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Forum Messages Posted by Umut_Umut

(485 Messages in 49 pages - View all)
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Thread: ....the problem is that...

71.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 25 Dec 2012 Tue 04:13 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

Actually one of the reasons of this rising religious fanatism is the puricification of Turkish language. You think Ottoman literature was a fanatic religious literature. But it is wrong. It always talk about love, human and a merciful God. It always criticises fanatics. It is really humanist. By prucification of the language, they cut our relationship with this literature and also with this humanist approach. They did this because Ottoman language was hard to learn and  its literature was elitist, mystic and unrealist literature. But thinking they were doing the right thing, they let extreme religious ideas find a place and let the owners of them easily claim that those are the values of our forefathers. Now we are under the pressure of fanatism more than ever.

 

Göküyüm you may be right but i don´t think that they cut our relationship with that literature. Because if you want to cut something it should be already tied. Ordinary people never understand what they wrote. I don´t believe it. I assume you are  talking about fasih turkish (ottoman fasih) , as you said, just a few could understand it. And today, few amount of people still can understand it. ( I think one of them is you) Nothing  changed. This was something to teach before purification and it is still something to be taught.

I agree your point that people think Ottoman was a very strict empire. And i agree that they wrote on every kind of things and sometimes they were more open then we are today. They even wrote books about sex which is really normal. I agree they were humanist. I think the problem is mainly what we don´t do. Our experts don´t work on every subject, they are focused on main things (by the way i know our experts are not much and being an expert isn´t something charming). People don´t care much about the history. They accept what they thought. Eventhough the ones who deeply love Ottomans, don´t bother themselves to read or study. We love speaking, claiming, insisting and assuming. Maybe good, maybe not. But this is what we are. If a person curious about something, nothing can prevent him.

 



Thread: Christmas in Turkey?

72.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 25 Dec 2012 Tue 10:47 am

I have been living in Türkiye for 27 years and i can say celebrations are really limited here as it should be. Our christians celebrate it for sure. Yes some people use trees but it is not for chirstmas but to celebrate new year.

 

Merry Chirstmas for the ones who celebrate

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Thread: ....the problem is that...

73.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 06:34 pm

 

Quoting ikicihan

Writing system reforms are whole different subject. We are not started to discuss it yet. Writing system doesnt change language as long as you use the same words. It doesnt matter how you write, in latin or cyrillic, in simplified chinese or traditional chinese...

 

What i sent was not only writing system reforms ikicihan.  You may read it again. 

 

 

Czech (19th century) — The dictionary of Josef Jungmann contributed to the renewal of the vocabulary.

    Estonian (1910s/1920s) — reform movement led by Johannes Aavik and Johannes V. Veski renewed the vocabulary, borrowing a lot of roots from Finnish and other Uralic languages and even inventing some roots.
    Hebrew (1920s) — Modern Hebrew was created from Ancient Hebrew by simplification of the grammar (especially of the syntax) according to Indo-European models, coinage of new words from Hebrew roots based on European models, and simplification of pronunciation rules.

Hungarian (late 18th and early 19th centuries) — more than ten thousand words were coined,[3] out of which several thousand are still actively used today (see also Ferenc Kazinczy).

    Romanian (19th century) — replaced Cyrillic script with the Latin alphabet, deprecated hundreds of Slavic words in favour of Romance ones. Romanian has undergone spelling reforms in 1904, 1953, and, most recently, in 1993, with two minor ones in 1964 and 2005.

Somali (1970s) — modified Latin script developed by Somali linguist Shire Jama Ahmed for writing the Somali language; made compulsory in 1972 by the President of Somalia, General Mohamed Siad Barre. Also the vocabulary was renewed, a lot of new words became coined from existing Somali roots.

 



Thread: ....the problem is that...

74.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 05:54 pm

 

Quoting nevbahar

enteresan hakikaten..türkçeninkine benzer hikayesi olan başka diller biliyor musunuz? özleştirmek adına reform üstüne reform yapan başka bir millet?

 

According to wikipedia:

Examples of language reforms areas given below.

    Chinese
        (1920s) — replaced Classical Chinese with Vernacular Chinese as the standard written language.
        Mandarin was chosen at a committee from several Chinese dialects.
        (1950s PRC) — reformed the script used to write the standard language by introducing Simplified Chinese characters (later adopted by Singapore and Malaysia, but Traditional Chinese characters remain in use in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and various overseas Chinese communities).
    Czech (19th century) — The dictionary of Josef Jungmann contributed to the renewal of the vocabulary. In the 1840s the letter w became replaced by v.
    Estonian (1910s/1920s) — reform movement led by Johannes Aavik and Johannes V. Veski renewed the vocabulary, borrowing a lot of roots from Finnish and other Uralic languages and even inventing some roots.
    German (1901/02) — unified the spelling system nationwide (first in Germany, with later adoption by other Germanophone countries). Further reforms were enacted more recently, in the German spelling reform of 1996.
    Greek (1970s/1980s) — while the written "pure" language, the katharevusa was full of Old Greek words, the spoken "popular" language, the dhimotiki was not. After the fall of the military rule, a law was promulgated, making the latter become the written language as well. For example, on Greek coins, the plural of the currency was drachmai (katharevusa form) before and became drachmes (dhimotiki form) after 1982.
    Hebrew (1920s) — Modern Hebrew was created from Ancient Hebrew by simplification of the grammar (especially of the syntax) according to Indo-European models, coinage of new words from Hebrew roots based on European models, and simplification of pronunciation rules. Linguist Ghil´ad Zuckermann argues that Modern Hebrew, which he terms "Israeli", is a Semito-European hybrid, based not only on Hebrew but also on Yiddish and other languages spoken by revivalists.[1] Zuckermann therefore endorses the translation of the Hebrew Bible into what he calls "Israeli".[2]
    Hungarian (late 18th and early 19th centuries) — more than ten thousand words were coined,[3] out of which several thousand are still actively used today (see also Ferenc Kazinczy).
    Irish (1940s) — spelling system greatly simplified: Gaedheal became Gael, and Ó Séigheadh became Ó Sé.
    Japanese (1946) — historical kana usage was replaced by modern kana usage, while the kanji system also transformed from Traditional Chinese characters to New Characters.
    Norwegian (20th century) — as Norway became independent from Denmark (1814), Norwegian started to drift away from Danish. The reforms in 1907 and 1917 made Riksmål the written standard Norwegian, renamed Bokmål in 1929. Bokmål and the more vernacular Nynorsk were made closer by a reform in 1938. Today both language forms are spoken: on Norwegian coins, the name of the country is alternately Norge (Bokmål) and Noreg (Nynorsk).
    Portuguese (20th century) — replaced a cumbersome traditional spelling system with a simplified one (asthma, for instance, became asma and phthysica became tísica).
    Romanian (19th century) — replaced Cyrillic script with the Latin alphabet, deprecated hundreds of Slavic words in favour of Romance ones. Romanian has undergone spelling reforms in 1904, 1953, and, most recently, in 1993, with two minor ones in 1964 and 2005.
    Somali (1970s) — modified Latin script developed by Somali linguist Shire Jama Ahmed for writing the Somali language; made compulsory in 1972 by the President of Somalia, General Mohamed Siad Barre. Also the vocabulary was renewed, a lot of new words became coined from existing Somali roots.
    Turkish (1930s) — language and writing system were reformed starting in the 1920s, to the point that the older language is called by a different name, Ottoman Turkish. The Ottoman alphabet was based on the Arabic alphabet, which was replaced in 1928 by the new, Latin-based Turkish alphabet. Loanwords of Persian and Arabic origin were dropped in favor of native Turkish words or new coinages based on Turkic roots.
    Vietnamese (20th century) — Classical Chinese lost official status in 1918, and the colonial schools instituted a "Franco-Vietnamese Curriculum" at this time. Vietnamese was taught using the Latin alphabet, and this form soon became dominent.



Edited (12/24/2012) by Umut_Umut

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Thread: this saz or baglama?

75.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 05:35 pm

 

Quoting levil3160

hi

i want to buy baglama but i dont know.this baglama or saz?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200767300494&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

and what different between saz and baglama?

The source of the baglama and saz is Turkey?

thank you very much friend

 

Saz : All kind of musical instruments

Saz (musical instrument), a family of Iranian and Turkish stringed musical instruments (Wikipedia)

Bağlama : An instrument which has three bifilar. The one in the picture.

So it is bağlama which is under the saz family.  As far as  i know it has more than 6-7 varieties. But i don´t know which one it is.  I have no idea about it is origin.

Probably there is an expert who can help you on this. 

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Thread: ....the problem is that...

76.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 11:04 am

 

Quoting ikicihan

"Sözcük" is Turkish from the root and from the suffix.
But why there is a need to change it?

 

We should also ask ourselves, why we gave up using "söz" which we had been using for centuries, and started to use "kelime".

In my opinion, loan words are something irresistable for a language. For sure it is true if the language is not spoken by a  community who has no connection with the other people. Eventhough it is natural, it should have limits. That´s why it should be under control of the language planners. Unfortunately,  i think TDK´s reaction for new words are really slow.

On the other hand, i don´t understand how come the words are described and insulted as "made up". All words are made up. Just most of them are based on the previous made up words and made up suffixes(or the rules depending on the language we talk about).

A language can be saved as long as  it´s grammatical rules are preserved. If a word will be borrowed from another language, it should be adapted to the grammatical rules of the language. I think that´s the main and first point that we should care about.

Turkish is a rich language with it´s all dialects and it has powerful abilities to derive new words. If we have this chance, why shouldn´t we use it? ( I know there is no one who is against what i am talking about. )

I agree that it is an endless discussion. And discussion is a good thing if we can succeed not to do it to get the edge over someone but to reach the common sense.

Long live on every languages of the world.

 

 

 

 

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Thread: Do Turks Like Their Own Language? turkish vs arabic,etc..

77.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 20 Dec 2012 Thu 09:04 am

hmmmm hummm hemmmm hommm hümmmm {#emotions_dlg.confused}

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Thread: T-E please

78.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 18 Dec 2012 Tue 12:12 pm

 

Quoting jolanaze

Please I do understand the context but not sure about the form of the boolted words

 

senden başkası benim için bir rüyaydı

thanks a lot in advance

 

rüyaydı : rüya + idi  : rüya+y+dı : was a dream

 

The one except you was a dream for me.

 

I think he used the word here as it was impossible for him to think that he loves someone except you.



Thread: Extremely short Turkish English translation... Please help

79.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 18 Dec 2012 Tue 09:00 am

 

Quoting keçi

Dilerimki.....DEYMISTIR...

 

 

 

dilerim ki    değmiştir

 

 



Thread: GÖKTÜRK - 2

80.       Umut_Umut
485 posts
 17 Dec 2012 Mon 03:54 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

Is there a seat for me?{#emotions_dlg.razz}

 

Unfortunately there is no seat it is just a satelite not a space craft



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