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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

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Thread: Religion....

1241.       vineyards
1954 posts
 05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:46 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting catwoman:

I believe it's only Islam that gives people explicit directions about every area of their lives.


You mean Christianity doesnt do so too ?!
İ guess it does with different ways or point of views
All religions do so,religions in a whole consist of rules people follow without mentioning the spiritual parts of course



The evolution of the Christian faith follows a very interesting path. It emerges in Jerusalem, after Jesus was killed by the Romans. Believers flee from Jerusalem due to excessive oppression they were subjected to. They come to Cappadocia to build their "underground" churches. As iconography was banned by the Romans they live as a secresive community. In the process, it is very likely that they lose some of their original identity being forced to live in a foreign land under the rule of the Hittites and then Romans again. They get exposed to the Byzantium later on and at that poin their belief was rationalized in line with the Western norms. There is also a talk about a Frenchman visiting Anatolia some 150 years after the death of Jesus, he then takes this faith to Western Europe.

Summarily;

* Current Christian faith is a Europanized version of Jesus' teachings.
* At the time of the first Christian Council in Nicae (Iznik), Christians had not reached a consensus about whether Jesus was God or not. (Still unsettled). Although meant for uniting churches, the first council was indeed the beginning of the politization of the Christian faith. Hence all current sects were political deviations essentially. The first council was held under the auspices of a King for the first time. As a result those who did not believe Jesus was God formed the Orthodox sect.
* The entire array of Christian images including those of Jesus, Mary, Santa Claus etc are mere Western fantasies. Their real identities are Middle Eastern, their names are mistranslated and converted into European images. That is why when you think of Santa Claus you think about a Scandinavian figure from (say) Norway. In fact, he was a Greek bishop called Niko of Demre. Mother Mary is usually depicted as a Greek goddess.
* Las but not least, it would be very difficult for Christians to question the validity of their belief because indeed, that belief has organically been formed by themselves. The punchline is Christianism is a product of the European culture -period-



Thread: Religion....

1242.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Feb 2008 Mon 09:56 pm

Back in the 80's, I was representing an American publication and had a guest from Saudi Arabia. I took him to a nice bar in the center of Taksim (Etap Marmara), and we began discussing Turkey, Islam. He said Turkey was going through all these economic problems because Turks had betrayed Islam. The guy was holding a glass of whiskey on the rocks and cursing Ataturk and his reforms. Of course, he wanted me to help him arrange a woman for that night. Now, if this is not takiyye or whatever it is a tell tale sign of how immature these medieval people are.



Thread: Religion....

1243.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Feb 2008 Mon 01:36 am

Pointing out to translation problems Aenigma asks why Quran can't be properly translated and why even Arabs misunderstand it: Arabic is full of equivocal words which produce immensely different meanings in different contexts.
This aspect of the Arabic language is somewhat in line with how Arabs generally are.

To make things more complicated, The Quran was written in Phasih Arabic, almost a separate language not spoken by the masses but vaguely understood. Add to that the fact that, The Qoran was first memorized by certain individuals the credibility of whom was said to be determined by a board of scholars. Some of the verses were eliminated and some were included, the wording depended on how well those people memorized the verses and it did not happen in prophet's life time nor did it happen before some 40-50 years. The Quran was first hand written on gazelle hide and sealed.

In addition to all this, there is a principle in the Islamic Faith called Taqiyye which means if your life is at stake, or if you think you are serving a good purpose such as the spreading of your faith then you are free to tell lies.

No one knows, what is true from an Islamic point of view (turban included) whether it is a taquiyye, translation problem or lack of IQ to properly understand it.



Thread: Religion....

1244.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Feb 2008 Sun 04:12 pm

Where English speakers say: "It takes a thief to deal with a thief", we say : "Dinsizin hakkindan imansiz gelir." meaning : "It takes a faithless person to deal with an agnostic one." The only time I found this phrase particularly meaningful was when Turkish National Soccer Team beat a tough opponent with a goal scored by Ilhan Mansiz. At that time one of the newspaper headlines read:
"Dinsizin Hakkindan I. Mansiz gelir."

It seems most faithfull people have a problem with those who don't believe. We experience the usual problems associated with being in minority. We cannot get our message through. Our choices about belief are not properly taught in schools and presented as viable options to school children. It is obvious that we non-believers are subjected to a large scale silencing campaign.





Thread: Youtube ban

1245.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Feb 2008 Fri 04:34 am

All religions have contributed to so many of the problems affecting both males and females today. Christians did burn women accusing them of witchcraft; medieval dungeons saw torture of all kinds made in the name of God allegedly in an effort to purify souls from evil thoughts and to inquire the sincerity of belief. Before Islam made its debut, it was a common practice among Arabs to bury their female babies. Islam came as a revolution by at least giving those babies a chance to live.

In his will left to his son Orhan, Osman the founder of the Ottoman Empire says: I fought all my wars and made all my conquests in the name of God and to spread his word all across the Earth as it is so written in the Holy Book that Jihad is necessary. My meaning was not mere gutter fight nor mindless brutality. You shall too put your sword at the service of God and work to spread his word.

That was exacty the idea the crusaders had when they came to Anatolia. In the name of God they killed, murdered, pillaged, raped, and desacrated the temples of other people.

Today, all malice is still being done in the name of God.




Thread: Poem: Can Yucel : Akdeniz Yarasiyor Sana

1246.       vineyards
1954 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 06:03 pm

You can hardly ever get the exact same taste from a translation as you'd from the original. It is impossible to truly represent Can Yucel in English. Just remember how he himself translated Shakespeare into Turkish. His was more like an adaptation. Shakespeare spoke Yucel's language, Shakespeare became Yucel himself.

I like spending my free time making these translations. If it arouses some interest for Turkish poetry or if it helps the learners of our language, I think, the purpose has already been well served.



Thread: Poem: Can Yucel : Akdeniz Yarasiyor Sana

1247.       vineyards
1954 posts
 27 Jan 2008 Sun 05:42 am

Akdeniz yaraşıyor sana
Yıldızlar terler ya sen de terliyorsun
Aynı ıslak pırıltı burun kanatlarında
Hiç dinmiyor motorların gürültüsü
Köpekler havlıyor uzaktan
Demin bir çocuk havladı
Fatmanım cumbadan çarşaf silkiyor yine
Ali dumdum anasına sövüyor saatlerdir
Denizi tokmaklıyor balıkçılar
Bu sesler işte sessizliğini büyüten toprak
O sesinin sardunyalar gibi konuşkan sessizliği
Hayatta yattık dün gece
Üstümüzde meltem
Kekik kokuyor ellerim hala
Senle yatmadım sanki
Dağları dolaştım
Ben senden öğrendim deniz yazmayı
Elimden düşmüyor mavi kalem
Bir tirandil çıkar gibi sefere
Okula gidiyor öğretmenim
Ben de ardından açılıyorum
Bir poyraz çizip deftere
Bir ada var sırf ebabil
Dönüyor dönüyor başımda
Senle yaşadığım günler
Gümüş bir çevre oldu ömrüm
Değince güneşine
Neden sonra buldum o kaçakçı mağarasını
Gözlerim kamaşınca senden
Ölüm belki sularından kaçırdığım
O loş suda yıkanmaktır
Durdukça yosundan yeşil
Kulaç attıkça mavi
Ben düzde sanırdım yıkıntım
Örenim alkolik asarım
Mutun doruğundaymışım meğer
Senle çıkınca anladım
Eski Yunan atları var hani
Yeleleri bükümlü
Gün inerken de öyle
Ağaçtan izdüşÃ¼mleriyle
Yürüyor Balan tepeleri
Yürüyor bölük bölük can
Toplu bir güzelliğe doğru
Kadınım Yaraşıyorsun sen Akdenize

The mediterranean befits you
You know how stars sweat, you sweat too
The same glittering wetness on your nose flaps
The noise from the engines will never stop
And a dog barks from afar
A kid barked too a while ago
Fatma shakes a carpet from a bay window
Ali keeps cursing his mom for hours
Fishermen pound the sea
All this is the soil that cherishes its silence within
A silence resembling geraniums in its talkativeness
We slept in life yesternight
With a breeze blowing above us
My hands still smell of thyme
As if I did not sleep with you
and roamed the mountains instead
I learned how to write "sea" from you
With a blue pen always in my hand
Just like a schooner setting sail
My teacher goes to school
I set sail too after her
Drawing a northerly wind in my notebook
There is an island full of swifts
The days I lived with you
keeps whirling on top of me
my life has become a silver frame for them
When I touched your sun
I found a cave of smugglers
When you dazzled my eyes
Death meant nothing more than a bath
in that calm water from which I set you free
The greener as it stands still
Bluer as you fathom yonder
I always thought I'd wreck
this ruinself, this alcoholic relic
on the plain land
Yet on top of Mut it turned out to be
I realized that when I went out with you

You know those ancient Greek horses
with those curly manes
They resemble the setting of the sun

Walk on Balan heights
With their tree like projections
Walk on in brigades all those beloved ones
Towards a mass of beauty
My woman, you befit the Mediterranean



I tried to translate another famous poem by Can Yucel.



Thread: The Trouble With Self-Hating Turks

1248.       vineyards
1954 posts
 25 Jan 2008 Fri 05:24 pm

Every nation has a big ideal, for the Greeks it is Megali Idea. They want parts of the Balkans and Asia Minor and move the capital to Istanbul. When this is done, they will reach the heaven on Earth. Romanians, Bulgarians and Serbs all have their own big ideals. Britain has its colonial dreams which were spoiled a short while ago after losing which they took up the role of being Devil's advocate.

Many a Turk describes himself/herself as the descendant of the Ottomans. Germans once thought they were the übermensh (sometimes I think they still do), the beloved sons of God, their language being the first language and their culture bestowed unto them by God.


As is seen nations are like small babies, they are very selfish. Everyone of them wants to identify themselves as the best, biggest and so on. When this is not the case they begin crying. All these megali ideas are like toys for them.

I think we Turks question ourselves so much because we have not been able to become a wealthy society and there are lots of mistakes waiting to be corrected. For example, one such rough spot was the patriarchal family model which once seemed to be an inseperable part of our culture. People of my age has observed enermous developments in this and other similar problems.

Being poor is not always a bad thing. For example, Saudis will probably never realize that they have problems in their society. Because nobody criticizes rich people, nor do they themselves. For countries like Turkey changing is a necessity. What I have said about Saudi Arabia is partly true for affluent Western societies too. Futurologist predict a very gloomy future for both Europe and America.

If you claim you are in the center of the Earth, the Earth gradually slips away under your feet and you will collapse.



Thread: Turkey getting expensive...

1249.       vineyards
1954 posts
 24 Jan 2008 Thu 01:06 pm

Tax overhead caused by excessive foreign loan repayment burden induced budget deficit. Just being a Turkish citizen, you owe the US and the Great Powers in Europe a couple of thousand dollars.



Thread: Turkey getting expensive...

1250.       vineyards
1954 posts
 24 Jan 2008 Thu 02:24 am

I have lately been listening to some sad Germans and Greeks who are complaining of the gas prices in their countries. In Greece a liter of gas costs €1 and €1.6 in Germany where gas price is higher than everywhere else in Europe save Holland. How much is a liter of the lowest grade gas in Turkey? It is a whopping €1.8.-

I have a relatively slow Internet connection rated at 2Mbs/s which costs me €40 a month.

If I wanted to buy a car I would have to pay various taxes altogether amounting to at least twice as much as the basic sale price of that car say in Germany.

Electronics is not exception nor are real estate prices. In my district, people talk about apartment prices hitting 1 million dollar level. If you have children, you must be prepared to pay a 5 digit tuition whether it be on a private high school or a university.

In short, Turkey is no longer a cheap country.



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