I have turkish boyfriend but I'm so afraid to talk or to think about marry with him because it look like a dream, build castle in the air. If Buddhist girl wanna marry with muslim guy in Turkey, what will be happened later? Do I have to change religion to be muslim? It would be appreciated if you have experience or heard anything about this before. Please advice me, thanks alot

Yes You must be muslim.

Changing your religion will depend on your boyfriend's views. His family might influence this issue also. I mean if they are very religious then you will most likely be asked to convert to Islam, but if they are more openminded it won't matter much if you decide to remain a Buddhist. I suggest you discuss this matter with your boyfriend. Ask him how he honestly feels about your religious beliefs.

Ohh no, you dont understand,its acceptable for Muslims to marry Christian or Jewish only,i mean not forbidden.

You can't change your religion for somebody. It's crazy. If you are Bhuddist it means you believe this religion. If you change what you believe for someone else, you are not true to yourself. And most of all, you cannot lie to God. If you believe in something, surely what you believe about God is more important than what your boyfriend believes in. This issue isn't something about culture differences. Being true to your religion is a very different matter.

If I know good, Muslim can marry with somebady who believes in one God, so Muslim can marry with Muslim, with Christian or with Jew. Of course if they are more religous, they want (his family) marriage only with other Muslim. As every realigous people they worry about future belief their grandchildren, and belief their son. You should ask your boyfriend about answer, because somebady often says "it's not important, all people believe in the same God or our kids will choose their belief when they will be adult" but really it isn't so "pink" and it's not true. Everything looks so easy only for start. Good luck!

In fact, muslim men are allowed to marry a girl who is monotheist (who believes in one god), they are not allowed to marry with an atheist, or with a buddhist, but he can marry with a christian, jewish, or even deist (who doesn't believe in religions but believe in one God).
On the other hand, muslim girls are only allowed to marry muslim boys.
But it depends how much you're engaged to the islamic rules.

There's the rules written in Kouran and they're unique. This is an islamic rule and in Turkey it's the same, but as you know every muslim is free to apply the laws as he likes and is responsible of himself. As long as he believes in Allah, that the İslam is the last religion, the prophets and ahiret, he is considered a muslim.
I know muslim turkish girls who marry christian men. The point is in Turkey, because we are not an islamic republic, we don't judge or punish people because they don't apply islamic rules.

Ok, you mean you apply Islam rules as it written in Kur'an in your life but you dont use them in laws.
And it is people's choices to follow them or not .
Yes ?

ALLAH will ask everyone for himself,and wont ask everyone for the other.
People are grown up know the right from the wrong and its their own choices .
I agree for that.

In marriage we have 2 seperates laws,one for Muslims and other for Christians.
And i guess it cannt be both way.
But i dont know for sure,so that i will check it and feed it back to you.

Its Haram by Islam of course,but i dont know about the law.

To get back on the topic...

Technically you can't marry a muslim man unless you're also muslim, christian or jewish but by regular people in Turkey I don't think it's being put to practice much.

And of course his family can't force you to change you're religion. It is blasphemic to say the shadada (what you say in order to become muslim) if you don't mean it in your heart.

If you're practicing buddhism and he's practicing islam it's going to be really hard.

First of all I really get sick of this kindoff thing when people say "if he or his family are so religous you must convert"! Well if he was so damn religous he wouldn't be getting in a relationship with a buddhist or athiest, jew or christian in the first place right?

My advice to you is not take anyone from heres advice, only you can know your boyfriend and his family so if your in love or starting to fall in love you need to investigate his family and him yourself before its to late and your heart gets broken. Like someone said earlier if you believe in your religion you would be a fool to even consider converting... it sickens me that just because you love a muslim you have to be one! Religion is not a pair of socks so don't pretend you can take off and on whenever its befitting to be religous.

I think we are also free to convert to a religion just because we want to marry someone. It's a decision about yourself, and if you want to pretend that you're a muslim or a christian, you should do it.

Başımıza "Buda" mı gelecekti


in islam, a woman doesnt have to change her religion when she marries with a muslim. Because father is the leader of family anf children took father's surname. in islam Children grow with their father's culture and religion. but it s not allowed for a muslim woman to marry with a man different religion.


but everything is depends on family. they may refuse or accept. it s impossible to say they will refuse you or accept you. coz in turkey there are very strict families.

how old was "muhammed" or any previous prophet when he got 'religion' ? was he or any prophet born able to even speak or know themselves what 'religion' is...he/she learned from whomever 'taught' them to live and get along with the people in the family, the community, etc.
some people feel a need for reflection and reason for their lives at some point in their lives, at whatever age or even due to some traumatic event...why is marriage any different?...choice of religion or way of life...is not first a choice...it is whatever you are born to, whatever your environment, your experiences, likes and dislikes.
if marrying into a 'muslim' religion because of marriage brings a new inner enlightenment...who would want to say ...no sorry..you can join our exclusive club? How long does it take for a child to learn namaz or any rules for that matter and become habit? pls dont discourage people from the muslim religion. it takes time to make certain 'lifestyle changes' but it doesnt take much time after reading the Quran to know that it is something truly beautiful. (my personal opinion)

No-one is trying to discourage anyone from being muslim. The point is , she has already said she is Bhuddist. She believes in something else. It's about pretending to believe in something else for someone else.

I 'pretended' to be a mommy when I played with my dolls as a little girl. pretending, familiarizing is in fact a learning tool to the real thing...nothing wrong with that.

But it's not the way to become religious.
There's no forcing in islam.

By the way as a practicing buddhist can you even marry?

Thanks alot for all suggestions, it's so appreciated for me. Deep inside my mind I can see the impossible between he and I but little part always say everything is possible. We never talk about this topic before, maybe coz he knows that I will fight if he starts this topic. During the last Ramadhan, he asked me when I would fast for Ramadhan then I did that for one day and it's made me understand the feeling of poor people.

My believe is in Buddhism...BUT
My heart is belong to him.

Thanks once again for all of you...Teşekkürler

DaMoon-

Hey, I want to write what I (myself) am going through and hopefully someone will benefit from these experiences as I've searched for someone in a similar boat and haven't found one to talk to about this.

The person I like/care about is Muslim from a traditional/religious family. Well, in order for us to be together (marriage) then I'd have to convert/revert to Islam. Since I believe in one God but am not firmly religious (leaning towards Christianity before) but now I am investigating and researching Islam. I like a lot of what I read, especially all the strong values and beliefs. I think if people really adhere to all those guidelines and live their life following Allah's guidance than they are striving to be better people.

However, the bad thing is that most of those guidelines are in direct conflict with what I grew up with or am used to. Shall I say all the "freedom" of the West has somehow gotten me used to it, even if I'm starting to realize that kind of lifestyle may not be the best.

Ex: 5.2 million couples live together and are not married in america. 40% of those couples will split in 5 years. 28% of men are never married. Married couples are only 49.7% in the U.S.

And all those sources that try to get us to try different men/women like magazines, movies, friends, society/western culture etc. it's sickening. We want to date/sleep with everyone and not marry anyone (western culture). Yet how do you go from one extreme to the next? It's like a bad disease, and you know you're dying from it but how to quit your bad habits?

I think Islam is a great religion but we are human (with all our human failings). I've talked to Muslims living in western areas that are committing all kinds of sins that they are aware of and yet keep doing. It makes me wonder if I am strong enough to convert to Islam and be a more virtuous person or if after my conversion I am still following my old behaviors/habits which I think is worse than not converting. It's kind of an internal battle if you will. Hopefully, I'll have it sorted out soon.

Kat

Thanks Kat. It's a great that you can share your experiences to me. I come from other side of this world "Asia" so totally different from West or Arab. However, I learn many things about that from books or websites and my boyfriend tells me about Islamics as well. I believe that all religions wanna people to be good persons. Now I'm still confuse and think too many things. Your suggestion give me some ideas how to step forward in the next day, thanks.

waaawww,a big Battlefield!!!
but in a word, you must be convert to muslim.

of course you have to be amuslim

Hello everyone,

I am muslim and my husband is catholic..and I havent changed my religion or my husband didn't change his religion..so there are no rules or laws that muslim person can or can not marry someone from a different religion.It is all up to you basically..

Abdestsiz namaz olur mu demişler ben kıldım oldu demiş.Yani lafı buraya getirmeyin.Sizin yapıyor olduklarınız islamın cevaz verdiği anlamına gelmez.

They asked ? can pray be without ablution ? He said i did.and it did. İ say do not bring the word here.

The wrong things that you do does not mean islam let it.

Here are the conditions for a man marrying a non-muslim:

"For a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman, several conditions must be met:

1. She must be from the People of the Book, i.e., Jewish or Christian.

2. She must believe in a divinely-revealed scripture recognized by Islam.

3. She must be chaste.

4. The man must be positive his children will be raised as Muslims.

Otherwise, such a marriage would be considered sinful and prohibitively disliked.

There is nothing wrong with letting her know that you prefer to marry a Muslim. However, it is completely up to her to decide whether or not she wants to accept Islam."
from sunnipath.com

Sorry about that...but I don't think his family will object unless they are practicing muslims. If you're both culture-religious (or what's the word?) there should be nothing standing in your way if you really want to get married. I was technically a christian before I married but I'm muslim now, by choice.

The reason I asked about buddhists marrying is that they are supposed to seperate themselves from all kinds of desire and so forth and I thought that marriage counts there as well. Anyway I'm not an expert of course

elyas_520 and jamila > WHY? It's haram to force islam upon anyone

Why respond to Jamila, she's not even giving arguments for why someone should leave their bf

If you believe in one God ,you do not set up partners with God and do good deeds(then you are also muslim ), then you can marry a muslim(if he is the same), that is what Kur’an says…This is the condition. In Kur’an Allah only forbids to marry with Idolworshippers and the people who set up partners with Allah. Only Allah knows what is in heart, who is faithful.

So the situation is that the boyfriend expects you to adjust your beliefs about the world, god, life... according to his wishes. As you said, he already showed that he "expects" you to do that, without even wondering about your feelings about it - whether you would want to do this at all, how you would feel about it, what his and your concerns are, or maybe whether it would be better for him to move to your country to avoid the family's expectations... any of this! Instead, he thinks that it's your duty to adjust to him. It's like telling somebody "since you are my girlfriend, you have to believe what I tell you to believe". That's treating the person as his possession, as an object without thoughts and feelings. Faith is not something you just change like socks (as it was well put earlier). It's a result of your own thought process, your own view on life, something that reflects who you are, and NOT a result of someone telling you what you should think. That is manipulation and emotional slavery!
It's really weird to me why so many women keep boyfriends that obviously don't respect them enough. Could be a result of the brainwashing of Disney films that perpetually tell us that you still have to love the prince that hides behind the beast. What kind of love is it when the guy tells you that in order to be with him, you have to hypocritically change your thoughts, ideas, faith, roots... everything!

In the case that a woman does want her boyfriend to change his belief, -which is very likely everywhere- your thoughts immediately goes invalid, catwoman! Pity!

So, it has nothing to do with men and/or women. Or better, it is not the case of being man and/or woman.

You better ask this question to your boyfriend. May be he is not that religious at all. You can feel sorry, think if its worth to abandon your beliefs. Read more about islam and sufizm. May be you will find some similarities, make you feel better!

For me personally...God gave me a mind and a heart and freedom of choice to open doors or to close them. By my own curious nature and admiration for many muslim people or any culture or religion I find that I have hands to open a book, I have a mind to be able to read and a heart to accept all people and brain enough to realize God made all humans. I found something lacking in christianity...answers and contradictions mainly same as I find in any religion or culture. I personally find the Quran to be truthful, the fact that it was maintained not to be altered in any way appealed to me as does the writings. yet as one poster put "one condition to marry is one must be chaste' however, in the Quran there is divorce and remarriage allowances and a time with which one can do this. There is conditions upon who you can marry but allowances for inviting to become muslim.
Opening and closing doors is a personal thing. Not a religious thing. pretending or practicing or physically going thru the motions of adapting to a new environment, changes in the community...all things necessary to get along, survive and exist happily within one's heart and mind and spirit.

Look in islam marrying with nonmuslims is not a good idea. But its not forbidden. For muslim men its more easy to marry. Its a bit hard and nearly forbidden for muslim women. So no problem.

By the way your religion is to you and his religion is to him. Who cares if you are budhist, muslim, christian or whatelse. If you want to revert to islam do it. But if you dont want its really nonsense if you will make it only for a man.
And nobody deserve to ask you to revert.

Take care. And decide yourself. Byee

your "wise" words may do harm.

there are far more powerful thıngs ın thıs world than myself but ı see my ınexpertıse ın ıslam culture has nothıng to do wıth extendıng love to a person of a dıfferent faıth ıt could be the reason to be drawn to one another somethıng ın theır style that ıs appealıng ıs dırectly ın proportıon to theır faıth and belıefs and culture

Yes exactly mltm!
Did nobody read what I wrote earlier?? -caugh- post 42 -caugh- Please refer from giving false advice arkadaşlar.

Look, I'm not a muslim that really practises the religion, but I have muslim friends,a friend whose father is imam, and other good practising muslim friends, and I referred to them and they all told me that a muslim woman is not allowed to marry a muslim man, and even if it's more accepted for a muslim man to marry a monotheist woman, a muslim woman is strongly preferred. Here it's explained (in turkish)http://www.hayrettinkaraman.net/sc/00100.htm

Are there any similar rules in the Koran, mltm, such as "A muslim girl is not allowed to go to France, a non-Muslim country, to learn French, not-Arabic"?

That's not completely true because the Qur'an says that you should respect and obey your parents so a man shouldn't marry someone that his parents oppose to.

Damoon,
You mention that you havent really discuss this "religion" thing with your boyfriend. Do you you think its wiser and better if you do so that you know what he really thinks about this subject. You will just make yourself sick of thinking too much. For all you know he might not want you to convert then you're stressing yourself for nothing. If he does then its time for you to really weigh the relationship especially your feelings for him. If you dont mind converting then no problem but then i presume you value your religion too. If he wants you to convert and you don't want to, then i think its time to move on. Spare yourself and the guy more heartaches .

Katoo7, please don't get me wrong. If you are happy this way, if it's something you believe in and feel good about doing - keeping your free thinking and independence - I absolutely agree with you. However, I'm against the attitude of a guy who expects the woman to compromise or change for him, and of course doesn't even consider himself doing anything similar for the sake of the relationship. I'm against women being coerced into converting because the boyfriend threatens that otherwise they cannot be together or marry. This is a horrible type of manipulation that establishes the man's dominance and ownership of the woman's thinking and her choices, which is just the beginning to all the other manipulation he's ready to do if he has the capacity for it. Seeing how strongly a male dominant religion Islam is (remember - women are inferior according to them!!!), you need to be very careful what you're getting yourself into and what your bf's and his family's attitude is if you don't want to end up in a place of misery and no return. There are too many examples of women converting into Islam for their bf's, then moving to their country at which point the sweet, loving man she thought she knew turned into a beast under the influence of his family and culture.

Also, "compromising" is something BOTH sides are supposed to do, not one.

By Sharrifa Carlo

"In reference to women, the Quran and the Hadiths have mandated various rules in regard to behavior, appearance and rights. Some of these may seem constricting to western women, causing them to pity Muslim women, but these women fail to realize that Muslim women do not feel constricted by these rules; we feel liberated, and in fact, as Muslim women we should pity western women. The Muslim woman is not forced to display herself to find a husband. She does not lower herself into competition with other women, using her body as a lure. Secondly, the Muslim women supports no man. Her property is off limits to her husband. It is his duty to provide for her and her children, regardless of her personal wealth. Thirdly, the man has no right to physically harm his wife. While some western scholars negate this by quoting from the Quran that a man is allowed to beat his wife, they fail to mention that the only condoned instrument for this beating is a siwak. (A siwak is a piece of wood, used as a toothbrush, about as thick as a pencil, and about half the length.) It is highly doubtful that this instrument could cause a child any damage, much less a woman."

The second and third reason is hilarious.

The Western concept of women's freedom and rights, in reality, equates women's rights to their "right" to three main things:

1. Taking off their clothes or wearing skimpy clothes.

2. Taking on jobs outside of the home

3. Mixing with men.

Sigh, there goes the drinking, clubbing, wearing halter tops or skimpy dresses. And all the guy friends and exes...can't talk to them anymore. As to the 9-5 gig, sigh, geez women will just have to sit on their butts all day, do a little cooking and maybe switch to commodities trading or something from home. Ok, I'm just joking... who knows what the heck I'll do (I don't even know myself) and men say that women can't make up their minds .

vineyards
1. you went offtopic.
2. you are still that boy at 20, afraid of being "rejected", too proud to get refused. life isnt that easy, there are people who try again and again upon "rejections". and in your case you even didnt try!
sitting on your bottom and blaming the rest of the world isnt wise. take your bum up and make your dreams come true!

İslam as any other religions consist of rules,and those rules are NOT negotiable.

Maybe you could've done it if we were at prophets time,but unfortunately Muhamed SAV and Christ RA have died !

So if we follow the rules all,we would be good Muslims or Christians or what ever !

İf we dont follow,its between us and ALLAH.

But at least be honest and say we know and dont follow,and dont hide behinde 'there is no ayat in Kor'an'

No there is ayat,if you dont know,its your responsibility,if you dont understand its also your responsibility.

As you see,in Kor'an there is ayat said Father,or Uncle should marry the girl,that was for a reason,and it didnt say its forbidden the girl marry herself.
What did people understand ?
That its haram'forbidden' a girl marry herself !

There are teachers of each religion 'İmam ,priests,...'
And there are the Holy books make them explain to you !

And if you dont want to obay ,then say i dont do obay,dont day its not there !

We're not kids,at least carry on responsibilities of what you're doing,or not doing.

We are mature enough to do that...i think !

barâk allâhu fîki Canlı inşallah people will listen to you.

So, Canlı, what is the case of the maid's husband to be? Will he, too, be able to hire another maid for their houseworks while some other husbands can do? If not, which is obvious, does the Koran say anything about such inequity between people apart from advicing husbands should in that case help their wives? Or does Islam not care such inequity at all?

i accidently saw this quote, and i have a question to ask:how can u marry with a turkish but still keeping ur religion?

The real islam is another thing, the male dominant culture in islamic countries is another thing.
You blame some men in islamic countries to be hypocritical, but in fact watching porn, drinking alcohol, having sex without marriage are all forbidden to men. There are men who really obey these rules, and putting forward these things to someone to make her prevent to convert to İslam is nonsense. I really know men who are not hypocritical and who try to apply the rules as it should be.

Honor killings has nothing to do with islam either.
But anyway guys this is just going to explode soon I think we should all be openminded and take the blaming a notch or two down.

The Relationship Between Men and Women in Islam

Written by Dr. Z. Saritoprak
09.09.2005

The Qur'an invites people to form a family life and points out many wisdoms and benefits of marriage. 'And Allah has given you wives of your own kind, and has given you, from your wives, sons and grandsons, and has made provision of good things for you. Is it then in vanity that they believe and in the grace of Allah that they disbelieve?' (16:72). The Qur'an views marriage as a serious commitment on the part of the husband and wife; it is a covenant between the husband and wife. It speaks of the rights of the husband and the wife. 'If you wish to divorce one wife and marry another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her, even if it be a talent of gold. Is it appropriate to take this by making up reasons for divorce and intentionally sinning? How can you take it back when you have lain with each other and put your heads on the same pillow and entered into a firm contract? That would be improper and grossly unjust' (4:20–21).

In addition to this, the Holy Book in principle emphasizes what is good and consistently declares that spouses should do what is good towards each other. 'O you who believe! It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) you should put constraint upon them that you may take away a part of that which you have given them, unless they be guilty of flagrant lewdness. But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein Allah has placed much good' (4:19).

In order to strengthen the ties of marriage, the Qur'an places more responsibility upon the husband's shoulders. It also imposes part of the responsibility upon the community, in the case of a disagreement between spouses. It views divorce, which God dislikes, as the last resort when reconciliation becomes impossible. 'O Prophet! When you (men) divorce women, divorce them for their (legal) period and reckon carefully the period, and keep your duty to Allah, your Lord particularly about the rights of your wives. Expel them not from their houses nor let them go forth unless they commit an immorality such as adultery. Such are the limits (imposed by) Allah; and whoso transgresses Allah's limits, he verily wrongs his soul. You know not: it may be that Allah will afterward bring some new thing to pass. Then, when they have reached their term (a three month period), take them back in kindness or part from them in kindness, and call to witness two just men among you, and keep your testimony upright for Allah. Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day is exhorted to act thusly. And whosoever keeps his duty to Allah, Allah will appoint a way out for him.' (65:1–2).

Another Qur'anic verse says, 'When you divorce your wives, lodge them where you dwell according to your wealth, and do not pressure them to leave through harassment. And if they are with child, give them their expenses until they give birth to their child. After you cut your relationship with them, if they continue to suckle your children, give them their due payment. Resolve the issue of payment due with kindness amongst yourselves according to your legal customs. If the mother of the child, by not suckling the child causes problems, the father should pay for another woman to suckle his child. Those who are wealthy should give according to their wealth. Those who have limited income, let them give according to their wealth from what God has given them. God makes people responsible only according to their capacity. God bestows ease after difficulty' (65:6-7).

Thus, the Qur'an, as in many cases in this matter, in addition to reminding spouses about their duties towards one another, emphasizes the main principles of human morality, and invites individuals to be respectful to God and virtuous towards each other. Such an atmosphere of respect is necessary for the continuation of humane and legal relations. That is because institutions such as marriage with a unique aspect of privacy can hardly be controlled by outsiders. As a matter of fact, it is a considerable issue to refer to a judge or a referee in the case of disagreement between spouses. Yet, the fundamental issue is to prevent the problems from the very beginning, or to solve them at the very time of occurrence. This is in great part related to the personality, ethics, and characteristics of the two parties. It is highly difficult to keep the harmony of married life through various philosophical and legal orders without putting the faith of God in the heart without a sense of self-criticism and respect for people.

The Qur'an, in various places, draws attention via emphasis on the warm atmosphere of the home 'And one of the signs of His existence and power is this: He has created for you helpmates in order to make you feel comfortable with one another, and He ordained between you love and mercy. There are lessons in this sign for those who reflect' (30:21).

Islam addresses women and men equally and raises women, with its remarkable breath, to a blessed position. It has taken women from being objects for men to the level that paradise lay under their feet. After the emergence of Islam, no one could force such gentle creatures to adultery, whoredom, and impurity. She would not be treated as property; she could not be accused of impurity. Such an accusation would result in a severe punishment on the part of the accuser. 'And those who accuse honorable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony — They indeed are evil-doers. Save those who afterward repent and make amends. (For such) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth; And yet a fifth, invoking the curse of Allah on him if he is of those who lie' (24:4–7). Female children would not be looked down upon. Infanticide would be prohibited. 'Slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, We shall provide for them and for you. Lo! The slaying of them is great sin,' The Qur'an has declared. Even if she is physically different, this is not a reason to be looked down upon. In the Qur'anic view of creation, Adam is created first and Eve is created from the same leaven (7:189). This Qur'anic picture reminds us that men and women are both equally humans. They are two entities that complete one another, as the Qur'an presents. The difference between both is based on certain purposes and designs and is not ontological. The Qur'anic verses that give the impression of the superiority of men over women are expressions with regard to certain capacities. 'Do not desire something that God has given more of to someone else other than you. Men have the share of what they have earned, and women have the share of what they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Lo! Allah is ever Knower of all things.' (4:32). The Qur'an reminds us of these differences, and that being from a certain gender should not be seen as a reason for complaint. There is no difference at all as far as human relationships are concerned. Whoever gains, gains for him or her.

As stated above, with regard to humanity and human relationships with God, there is no difference between women and men. They are equals concerning their rights and responsibilities. Woman is equal to man in the rights of freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to live a decent life, and freedom of finance. Equality before the law, just treatment, marriage and founding a family life, personal life, privacy and protection are all among the rights of women. Her possessions, life and dignity are assured like that of men. Violation of any of these rights results in severe punishment. Yes, woman is free and independent before the law. Her femaleness does not limit or invalidate any of her eligibilities. When her rights are violated, she can seek justice just as men can. If someone takes her possessions wrongly, she has all rights of reclamation. Considering some qualities of women and men, Islam has developed certain legal prescriptions: for example, women are exempted from certain charges such as military services, going to war, taking care of the financial obligations of a family and herself, etc.

As for testimony, yes, the Qur'an says that when you cannot find two men to testify, find one trustworthy man and two women, for if one forgets the other, the other will remind her (2.282). It is not acceptable to deduce any meaning from this verse to indicate the superiority of men over women in humanity and in value. The fundamental issue here is the realization of justice. This is not a matter unique to women. The testimony of some male Bedouins has been rejected when the matter is related to the rights and realization of justice. The issue of testimony is related to a strong commitment to communal life. The involvement of witnesses in all segments of social life — even today a reality — the lack of witnessing many aspects of the life of people are always possible for some men and women. This issue of testimony in the Qur'an relates to oral testimony with regard to financial matters and loans. Otherwise, the testimony of women in writing, when needed, is accepted as equal by some scholars of Islamic law.

The Muslim World, Special Issue, July 2005 - Vol. 95 Issue 3 Page 325-471



..and see

forumTitle_11_16621

WHAT!?? I object to that having anything to do with kurds in particular. I doubt you have ever gone to kurdish regions. If you had, you would know that people are openminded about their religion and have very tightly knit families who would never dream of murdering eachother. Ya rab.

In Turkey in particular which cultural group practises honor killings or forced honor suicides? They're also muslims, but in İslam is there something like that?

Ok, it's out of the original subject. Anyway, I showed a fact. Honor killings are widespread in the kurdistan region, so it's a patriarchal cultural thing rather than islamic.

azade, I don't understand what is generalizing here. So, you reject that honor killings are practised by the kurdish tribes as part of their patriarchal traditional culture? I cannot make it less generalizing.

What i really dont understand, whey we are always in this position?

Why we are always have to defend our rules and explain them?

Why we always have to argue about what WE believe ?!

God,i dont accept some rules in Christianity too ,it cant pass on my mind,not logic to me,same in Torah.

But its Christianity,or Torah rules,its that religions rules,so i accept it as it is,i dont judge,i dont look at it from above,and look at you as if you dont have any sense of joining that religion !

Ohhh,i really fed up of that !

You are talking about woman's right in İslam .

And how about woman's rights in Christianity,in Torah ??!

honor killing ?
Hmmm,how about honor killing in India,in Japan,China,...

Are they also Muslims ?

Do they practice İslam too ?!

And how about women rights there ?!!

How about woman rights in Western ?

How about woman dont earn same salary as a man even if they are in same position not for anything except she is a woman !

How about violence against women ?!
How about rates of husbands beating their wives ?

How about all of that ?

That too is İslam ?

Why the heck its always about İslam,trying to prove its a bad religion and Muslims are monsters ?!


Why its always about İslam ?!
What have we done to you that bad ?!

What happened here? this thread gone out of topic

Armegon if your guys would find out what you are defending here, they wont like it at all. Remember the photo, the guy you are suggesting for being president and most democratic around country, sitting on his knees, next to some sheikh. They are accepting a students lessons, why you are not?

"IN Europe right now the statistics of male violence against female partners are terrible. For European women aged 16-44 violence in the home is the primary cause of injury and death, more lethal than road accidents and cancer. Between 25% and 50% of women are victims of this violence. In Portugal 52.8% of women say that they have been violently treated by their husbands or partners. In Germany almost 300 women a year - or three women every four days - are killed by men with whom they used to live. In Britain one woman dies in similar circumstances every three days.

In Spain it is one every four days. In France six women die this way every month: 33% of them are knifed, 33% shot, 20% strangled and 10% beaten (1). In the 15 member states of the European Union (before enlargement to 25), more than 600 women die every year because of sexist brutality in the family (2).

The profile of the aggressor is not what you might imagine. There is a public perception that these types of killers tend to be from poor backgrounds and with little education. That is not the case. The death of the actress Marie Trintignant, who was killed on 6 August 2003 by her partner, a famous artist, is an example.

A report from the Council of Europe (3) says that "it is even proved that the incidence of domestic violence seems to increase with income and level of education". It stresses that in the Netherlands "almost half of all those who commit violence against women hold university degrees". In France attackers are usually men whose professional status gives them a degree of power. A sizeable percentage of the attackers are management personnel (67%), health professionals (25%) and officers in the police or army (4).

Another misconception is that violence of this kind is more common in the macho cultures of southern Europe than in northern countries. Here too the image needs adjustment. Romania is the European country with the worst record: every year almost 13 in every million women there are killed by their male partners.

However, next on the dismal honours list come countries where women’s rights are highly respected. In Finland more than eight in every million women are killed in the home every year: the list runs on down through Norway (6.58), Luxembourg (5.56), Denmark (5.42) and Sweden (4.59). Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland in fact come at the bottom of the list."

by By Ignacio Ramonet, LE MONDE DIPLOMATIQUE


So, what is the thing in common in all these countries? Being a muslim country?

the fact that the 'honor killings' are given this name to a religion instead of individuals is hurtful and slanderous and made for media headlines to scare non-muslims to fear the 'religion' itself. my personal opinion. when in any other country where there is a 'murder' he/she is simply called a murderer, a 'gang' member, a scorned spouse or stalker, etc.

Today, the views on alcohol in Christendom can be divided into moderationism, abstentionism, and prohibitionism. Abstentionists and prohibitionists are sometimes lumped together as "teetotalers" (compare list of teetotalers) and share some similar arguments for their positions, but the distinction between them is that the latter abstain from alcohol as a matter of law (that is, they believe God requires abstinence in all ordinary circumstances), while the former abstain as a matter of prudence (that is, they believe total abstinence is the wisest and most loving way to live in the present circumstances).

The moderationist position is accepted almost universally outside of Protestant Christianity and within Protestantism, it is accepted by most Lutherans, Anglicans, and Reformed churches. Moderationism is also accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses. Moderationism argues that, according to the biblical and traditional witness, (1) alcohol is a good gift of God that is rightly used for making the heart merry, and (2) while its dangers are real, it may be used wisely and moderately rather than being shunned or prohibited because of potential abuse.

The abstentionist position is held by many Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, and other evangelical and Protestant groups including the Salvation Army. Abstentionists believe that although alcohol consumption is not inherently sinful or necessarily avoided in all circumstances, it is generally not the wisest or most prudent choice. While most abstentionists don't require abstinence from alcohol for membership in their churches, they do often require it for leadership positions.

Prohibitionist denominations such as the Seventh-day Adventists hold that the Bible forbids partaking of alcohol altogether, with some arguing that even the alleged medicinal use of wine in 1 Timothy 5:23 is a reference to unfermented grape juice. The Word of Wisdom, which is a section in Doctrine and Covenants, part of the Mormon canon, also forbids the use of alcohol.


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Geez, isn't that confusing. If someone wanted to be a Christian they'd have to pick which demonination they want to belong/follow and which rules they want to listen to.

Not all religious people are on the same level as eachother. some people do things other people dont do, some people put what they believe in to practice while some don't so much. Thats up to each individual, and how strong their faith is. But in this situation, the question should be if you really believe in Bhuddism, or if it is more like the religion you were raised in. If you want to find out more about islam for yourself thats fine. But if you really believe in Bhuddism, you shouldn't just put it aside for someone else. When you have children, if your husband wants to raise them as muslim, but you believe in Bhuddism, really believe in it, and see your own children disbelieveing it while your husband teaches them things you don't believe in. That could break your heart. Marriage isn't just about a lovey dovey feeling. You have to be compatible. Want the same things in life, want the same things for your children etc. How are so many people in relationships , talking about marriage, without really knowing eachother. Surely things like how you would raise/discipline your children, religion, how you feel about important descions should be discussed before you commit to spend your life with someone. Religion is a very personal thing. I think the question shouldn't be if you are allowed to marry someone of a different religion, but if you really want to. How important are your religions to both of you? will you be compatible together? Again, marriage takes a lot more than that 'lovey' feeling.

catwoman
stop, it doesnt work. dont you see?
it took hundred years and thousands of victims for european suffragists to achieve what we have today. liberation didnt come from outside, they had to fight themselves for themselves.
as for the eastern women it will take them 10 times more of time and victims. and it should be initiated by only themselves. by the time their mentality changes it will be a year 2500 or 2800, when the democracy will be introduced closer and will require the revolution. every revolution takes its victims. nothing comes free.
and so far, see, theres no problem, muslim women are the happiest unders the sun. they happily give their fate to their fathers or brothers and they decide what its good for them. amazingly wonderful!

I don't deny that the numbers are much higher in the muslim countries, but what I want to say is that it's also very frequant in christian countries because you warned the girl who considered converting to İslam and marrying a muslim that it was nearly certain that she would be abused. Marrying a muslim is not a guarantee to be beaten or be seen inferior because in the religion itself domestic violence is not supported. I find you very prejudiced against the muslims and İslam, I doubt that you really know a lot of them personally, catwoman.

mltm
i found catwoman prejudeced to the women discrimination be it in muslim countries or non-muslim.
meanwhile i found you prejudiced to the christian countries.

you re the most interesting case, since your mother is french. how does it look like ? you could share to make it clear to some ppl. of course, its your privacy. i ll respect if you say : NO.
did she conver to islam?
or you may have atheist parents.

mltm
thank you for sharing!
that gives some picture.
recently married you are, arent you? or going to marry? have i guessed right?