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A GOOD TEST OF INTEGRITY
(69 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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1.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 03:30 pm

ANYONE HERE CAN SEND ME A LAKOTA FLAG ?
I WANT TO SUPPORT MY BROTHERS.


Sitting Bull's people break away from US Article from: Agence France-Presse From correspondents in Washington

December 20, 2007 03:10pm

The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the US.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the US, some of them more than 150 years old.

The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their US citizenship, Mr Means said.

The treaties signed with the US were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.

Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.
"This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution, '' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

``It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent, '' said Means.

The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence -- an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because ``it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.

One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples -- despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

``We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

The US ``annexation' ' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere ``facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.

Oppression at the hands of the US government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the US; infant mortality is five times higher than the US average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.



2.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 03:42 pm

Here we go, Alpha:
http://www.snowwowl.com/peoplesioux.html


http://www.scvlakotanationcamp2000.org/


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.american-native-art.com/publication/oglala-lakota-sioux/foto/Oglala-flag.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.american-native-art.com/publication/oglala-lakota-sioux/oglala-lakota-sioux.html&h=132&w=200&sz=7&hl=en&start=14&um=1&tbnid=Fte7PYHm9_3a8M:&tbnh=69&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLAKOTA%2BFLAG%2B%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

3.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:00 pm

Thank you dear frıend Roswıtha,

AlphaF (alıas, Heavy Feather}

4.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:01 pm

Independence? Well I believe they already have that. I don't deny what the whites did was a terrible thing, however they have just as many opportuntites with education and success than any other American citizens. They even have more leverage when it comes to getting federal grants for college, than most. Some of them prefer to build casinos on their land, instead. I'm interested to see how well their independant government will be funded and having no sea ports for trade will take them.

Why don't we just hand the south back to Mexico and just call it a day. Heck, we'll all claim ancestral rights and move back to Europe and demand to be included in their social welfare. You know I'm part German and Irish, I should be entitled to something.

5.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:03 pm

Or be modest and keep your mouths shut...when ıt comes to human rıghts..

6.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:27 pm

What has Turkey done for Armenians? Any land or special grants for education? You are in no position to talk about Human Rights either Omega..

7.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:34 pm

You know what they say...those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...most modern nations live in glass houses.

Alpha, most Native American tribes have moved beyond all this and are proud Americans. They serve bravely in the military, enjoy the same life and freedoms everyone else does. Most of the time, they are very revered in American society. Most Americans honor their traditions and acknowledge their contributions...can the same be said for every other nation in the world how has been in this situation?

8.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:39 pm

I cant recall any natıve Indıan US presıdents !

9.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:44 pm

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...

10.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 04:45 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

I cant recall any natıve Indıan US presıdents !



Has there been an Kurdish president in Turkey....or perhaps someone of Armenian decent? Just curious

11.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 05:00 pm

Kurdısh presıdent, YES.
Armenıan presıdent, NO...Armenıens are more commercıally orıented master craftsmen....no reason they can not be presıdents, ıf they want to.

THE NAME OF THIS THREAD ıs...A GOOD TEST OF INTEGRITY, NOT A GOOD TEST OF BULLSHIT. PLS CONTRIBUTE ACCORDINGLY.

12.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 05:06 pm

Omega, are you sure your not a relative of Crazey Horse? lol

13.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 05:07 pm

HEAVY FEATHER SAID ...NO BULSHIT !

14.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 05:18 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

HEAVY FEATHER SAID ...NO BULSHIT !



Heavy Feather the tyrant...lording over his post like an angry dictator!

15.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 05:36 pm

I heard that there ıs a place somewhere ın US that the natıve Indıans called CHAPULTEPE...I was told that the Whıte man calls the same place BRIGAND HILL.....

Must be purely coıncıdental !

16.       KeithL
1455 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 07:05 pm

The human condition of the native americans in minnesota (dakota, sioux, ojibwe) is deplorable.

Suicide, healthcare, unemployment, alcoholism, education inaccessibility.
Its a disgrace. Anyone who cares to investigate the subject longer than 15 minutes can quickly find what has led to these conditions. But looking backwards is not helping the situation.
The Minnesota state government needs to look in the mirror, and do everything possible to not lose another generation of native american children to this cycle of poverty.

17.       azade
1606 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 07:30 pm

Which başbakan was kurdish and where was he from? I didn't know this.

18.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 07:45 pm

Turgut Ozal was Kurdish, he eventually became the President.

19.       azade
1606 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 07:51 pm

Thanks that's nice to know

20.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 08:00 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

I heard that there ıs a place somewhere ın US that the natıve Indıans called CHAPULTEPE...I was told that the Whıte man calls the same place BRIGAND HILL.....

Must be purely coıncıdental !



I wonder if you mean Chapultepec ?

Not in the US, but Mexico....but it was an important place for many Amerindians.

21.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 08:34 pm

Your spelling is correct....

What do you think CHAPULTEPEC means in Turkish? Take a wild guess ! ))))))))))))))

22.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 09:21 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Your spelling is correct....

What do you think CHAPULTEPEC means in Turkish? Take a wild guess ! ))))))))))))))



Please do tell AlphaF....I really don't know, but would like to know.

23.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 09:24 pm

Chapultepec ...is very close to BRIGAND HILL in Turkish.

24.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 09:24 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Your spelling is correct....

What do you think CHAPULTEPEC means in Turkish? Take a wild guess ! ))))))))))))))



Hmmmm....looked it up in the dictionary....

çapul

1. looting, sacking, pillaging, plundering.
2. loot, booty, spoils.


çapul etmek /ı/ to loot, sack, pillage, plunder.

25.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 09:27 pm

correct
Do you see what I mean?

26.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 10:02 pm

Quoting teaschip1:

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...



You should be ashamed to admit that first elected native governor had to wait until 2007.

I demand that my brothers' holy lands be returned immediately..with three large herds of buffalos, if you dont mind !

You can go back to Germany or Ireland....whatever..

27.       kafesteki kus
0 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 10:10 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting teaschip1:

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...



You should be ashamed to admit that first elected native governor had to wait until 2007.


not to mention that Native Indians had to wait till 1924 to get the right to vote...54 years later after Afro Americans were formally enfranchised with the 15th amendment (187and 4 years after women.what a justice!!!

28.       bydand
755 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 10:25 pm

Quoting teaschip1:

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...



Yes please go on.

29.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 10:31 pm

Should I be ashamed if US can not raise a lady president?


PS: We in Turkia already had one. We shall never repeat the mistake !

30.       bydand
755 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 10:50 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Should I be ashamed if US can not raise a lady president?


PS: We in Turkia already had one. We shall never repeat the mistake !


Alpha are you sure you do not mean Tansu Ciller the first woman prime minister of Turkey?

31.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 11:17 pm

of course I mean her....she is probably very happy, counting her dollars now !

32.       portokal
2516 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 11:28 pm

Quoting kafesteki kus:

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting teaschip1:

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...



You should be ashamed to admit that first elected native governor had to wait until 2007.


not to mention that Native Indians had to wait till 1924 to get the right to vote...54 years later after Afro Americans were formally enfranchised with the 15th amendment (187and 4 years after women.what a justice!!!



and you would be amazed to see how beautiful inscriptions were on the 16-17 century thumb stones thrown out from the cemetery.

33.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 11:49 pm

Quoting portokal:

.........and you would be amazed to see how beautiful inscriptions were on the 16-17 century thumb stones thrown out from the cemetery.



Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?

34.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 11:51 pm

If I am not mistaken, you are about to witness where an original AlphaF thread can actually lead you to....

35.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Dec 2007 Fri 11:57 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

If I am not mistaken, you are about to witness where an original AlphaF thread can actually lead you to....



Well I am constantly amazed where these threads go, even if they aren't started by AlphaF

36.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 12:01 am

AlphaF does not appreciate such cold and indifferent remarks.

He likes warm and compassionate words...always!

37.       portokal
2516 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 12:08 am

Quoting alameda:

Quoting portokal:

.........and you would be amazed to see how beautiful inscriptions were on the 16-17 century thumb stones thrown out from the cemetery.



Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?



Sorry for unclear posting
'what a justice' and Indians faith remembered me, through several leaps about an another injustice. an example: in my town, there is a ravishing cemetery (as strange as it may sound... but the flowers, trees, it's size, the fact that is on a hill, the stones and crypts make it so very beautiful and unique). it is dating from the 16th century. basicallly started as hungarian, german and jewish one. each year, old tombstones are thrown out, making room for the 'newcomers' made of cement. it is there, along our everyday lives, yet fading everyday. there is still not much of an interest in keeping its beauty and value. since muteferrika has flown away, in this cemetury lies misztotfalusi, opener of the first printer here, poets, writers, scientist, noblemen along with colourful gypsies. keyword? assimilation. and i can tell you many more similarities. as one saying goes: late me have a look at your cemeteries and i tell you who you are... what did the hungarians do? fought over a piece of cheese. then several, flavoured after politically orientations. this is a very truncated and brief story of what is just an another form of extinguishing.

38.       portokal
2516 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 12:12 am

Quoting alameda:


Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?


actually, this cemetery goes just as unnoticed as it would have in this thread, except for your question ))). but just as unnoticed in a turkish forum ))))) a mere remark. )))

39.       portokal
2516 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:09 am

Quoting portokal:

Quoting alameda:


Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?


actually, this cemetery goes just as unnoticed as it would have in this thread, except for your question ))). but just as unnoticed in a turkish forum ))))) a mere remark. )))



now, how this connect to the topic of integrity? just through me. then:

1. most of the times i seriously question my integrity.

2. the original topic was missing a few lines from the article. Ecce:
A long time ago, there was an old man with his children living in a mountain village. They lived a very happy life, with only one big problem. They had to climb over a big mountain to go to the field everyday. So one day the old man decided to move the mountain. With his children, they began chipping away pieces of rock every day at the foot of the mountain. A wise man passed by and said, 'How can you possibly think you can move the mountain?' The old man said, 'Probably I won't. But you see, I have children. My children will have children. And they will continue and the mountain will be moved.

40.       kafesteki kus
0 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:17 am

Quoting portokal:

Quoting portokal:

Quoting alameda:


Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?


actually, this cemetery goes just as unnoticed as it would have in this thread, except for your question ))). but just as unnoticed in a turkish forum ))))) a mere remark. )))



now, how this connect to the topic of integrity? just through me. then:

1. most of the times i seriously question my integrity.

2. the original topic was missing a few lines from the article. Ecce:
A long time ago, there was an old man with his children living in a mountain village. They lived a very happy life, with only one big problem. They had to climb over a big mountain to go to the field everyday. So one day the old man decided to move the mountain. With his children, they began chipping away pieces of rock every day at the foot of the mountain. A wise man passed by and said, 'How can you possibly think you can move the mountain?' The old man said, 'Probably I won't. But you see, I have children. My children will have children. And they will continue and the mountain will be moved.


good one ,Porto,Thanx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3ZEvOfD1w&feature=related

41.       portokal
2516 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:21 am

Quoting kafesteki kus:

Thanx

42.       portokal
2516 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:22 am

amazing grace

43.       alameda
3499 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:35 am

Quoting portokal:

Quoting alameda:


Am I missing something here? Could you please clarify?


actually, this cemetery goes just as unnoticed as it would have in this thread, except for your question ))). but just as unnoticed in a turkish forum ))))) a mere remark. )))



Quite beautiful, nice...

A wise man I once knew said we are walking on our ancestors. In (New York City where I spent most of my life) there are many graveyards that have been turned into baseball fields, parks or had large building built on top of them.

Washington Square Park in the Village was a drilling field in the early days of the US development. They used to do executions there. The hanging trees are still there.

It then became a potters field. During yellow fever and malaria epidemics thousands were buried there.

In the early 19th Century they decided to make it a park. Another time they decided to build a fountain there. They dug up a lot of old caskets still with the yellow blankets on them. I know because I spoke with some of the workmen who did the excavation.

Then there is the now famous African Burial Ground in Wall St. I walked by that numerous times before it was discovered.

Then there is a swimming pool, baseball diamond and boce ball court that was built on a private cemetary that had been abandoned. It became a sunken garden, then was made what it is now. I know about that, because I knew an older man who was there when they were digging up the graves. He said they used to just leave the bones around, and being a kid, used to take bones home to his mother..."look Ma what I found!"

Just think, how many graves do we walk over now and don't even realize it.

I could go on, but for now will leave it at this. It is a sobering realization. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. What remains are our works.

Respect and gratitude are in order for all.

44.       turkodelight
1 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 01:40 am

Quoting AlphaF:

Turgut Ozal was Kurdish, he eventually became the President.



Actually Turgut Ozal was a president with his turkish idendity. None of kurdish became president in turkey as their kurdish identity. he could become a president as he accepted being turkish idendity. nobody can say he was not kurdish ethnically, but his identity was turkish, there is a huge difference between these two situation.

45.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 03:40 am

Quoting turkodelight:

Quoting AlphaF:

Turgut Ozal was Kurdish, he eventually became the President.



Actually Turgut Ozal was a president with his turkish idendity. None of kurdish became president in turkey as their kurdish identity. he could become a president as he accepted being turkish idendity. nobody can say he was not kurdish ethnically, but his identity was turkish, there is a huge difference between these two situation.


It must be an issue of the well known here betaF's lack of integrity problem.

46.       teaschip
3870 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 04:54 am

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting teaschip1:

What's your point, so there hasn't been a woman president either. Just for your information..

1987 President Ronald Reagan appoints Dr. Joy Cherian, the 1st Indian Commissioner of the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commmision (EEOC).

2007 Bobby Jindal is elected governor of Louisiana and is the 1st person of Indian descent to be elected governor of an American state. He is presently and historically the highest ranking Indian American in the United States Government.

Shall I go on...



You should be ashamed to admit that first elected native governor had to wait until 2007.

I demand that my brothers' holy lands be returned immediately..with three large herds of buffalos, if you dont mind !

You can go back to Germany or Ireland....whatever..



I'm not ashamed to admit anything, only giving you the facts. I wish there were more educated and qualified Indians to hold govermental positions, rather than running casinos.

Maybe the government should do more for them, however it takes accountability of ones personal dedication to become educated and career driven. Everyone seems to blame everyone for their own destination. Where is the accountability for ones success.. It starts with motivation and determination to want to be successful.

Our government has given them land to live on, the right to vote and every opportunity to take advantage of our education system to become successful. If they want to keep revisiting the past instead of looking to the future, maybe that's what keeps holding them back.

As far as going to Germany and Ireland, I would love to visit. But my homeland is the U.S. and will always be. But thanks for the approval..

As far as your brothers, they are my ancestors as well. My Great Grandma was part Cherokee. So now you can call me a traitor....

47.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 05:08 am

Quoting teaschip1:

I wish there were more educated and qualified Indians to hold govermental positions, rather than running casinos.

Maybe the government should do more for them, however it takes accountability of ones personal dedication to become educated and career driven. Everyone seems to blame everyone for their own destination. Where is the accountability for ones success.. It starts with motivation and determination to want to be successful.


+10000000000

48.       teaschip
3870 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 05:46 am

I read this article, which to me sheds some light and raises some very good questions on the subject.
by Ric James

Please note that the Constitution lists both itself and the laws made “in Pursuance thereof” in the same sentence and, I might add, it lists them first. Without the Constitution, the treaties aren’t accorded the position of being part of the “supreme Law of the Land”, so the implication that treaties are somehow to be considered above all else is incorrect.

I would like to say, however, that I do not argue against the point that people are within their rights to be free and, should they choose, independent of the United States. I do not recognize their rights to be independent of the United States inside the borders of the United States. Nor do I absolve them of the consequences of such a declaration, as our founding fathers were not immune to the consequences of the Declaration of Independence. I would also point out that there are ways that this unilateral withdrawal from treaties with us can turn out that aren’t near so romantically positive as some might think.

The issues with having a foreign country as an overlay onto US soil are far more involved than simply issuing passports and printing up new letterhead. While I realize that the Tribes have their own police force and that tribal laws apply within the boundaries of the existing reservations, this situation goes far beyond that. For starters, the Lakota are rescinding the very treaties that set those reservations up to begin with. Since those treaties are now dissolved, there is no legal basis for the tribal justice system to claim jurisdiction over a given area. Now what? If the Lakota decide to enact some kind of law that is in direct violation of the US Constitution - let’s say they decide to dispense with their law enforcement’s need for a search warrant - what law prevails when a US citizen gets stopped by a Lakota police officer? What happens when that US Citizen makes a run for it? Are they on US soil or Lakota? And what ultimate authority makes that call? The US Supreme Court no longer has jurisdiction over Lakota police without those treaties.

And what about the offer to US Citizens to switch to Lakota nationality? If they’re living on what is now US soil, do the Lakota believe their switch will annex the property? Do those people who accept have to move? What about people who are living in the area claimed who choose not to switch citizenship? Do the Lakota suggest that those people have to move out?

And where, exactly, are the Lakota drawing their map lines, anyway? According to the BIA map of Indian Reservations, there is no reservation that stretches between the states listed in the Lakota’s announcement. And if they’re simply declaring that the 5-state area in question is to be turned over to them, what are they suggesting they’re going to do with the people currently living in those states under US citizenship and what are they implying if we say we’re not turning that land over?

Something else to bear in mind - those treaties have also kept the US from bringing military action against the tribes.

I am interested to see how this will play out but the advocates of the “noble savage” rendition of history should understand that the US isn’t going to gather up all Americans of European descent and cram them into the area of the original 13 colonies. Anyone holding that hope out needs to get a grip.

49.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 07:46 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting teaschip1:

I wish there were more educated and qualified Indians to hold govermental positions, rather than running casinos.

Maybe the government should do more for them, however it takes accountability of ones personal dedication to become educated and career driven. Everyone seems to blame everyone for their own destination. Where is the accountability for ones success.. It starts with motivation and determination to want to be successful.


+10000000000



How true...We have similar problems here. All Cherokees have probably learned, at least, English language by now: We have not even gone that far yet...We are a much younger Republic and we are definitely working on it....

What a faceless double standard !

50.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 07:56 am

Quoting turkodelight:

Quoting AlphaF:

Turgut Ozal was Kurdish, he eventually became the President.



Actually Turgut Ozal was a president with his turkish idendity. None of kurdish became president in turkey as their kurdish identity. he could become a president as he accepted being turkish idendity. nobody can say he was not kurdish ethnically, but his identity was turkish, there is a huge difference between these two situation.



Politics, on the basis of ethnical, racial, color, religious differences, is against Turkish Constitution. The State, within democracy, has every right to stop anyone who wants to become its President on such basis. Toppling a State, using the rights and priviledges offered by that State has been tried before. It generally backfires.

Despite considerable people of Irish origin in the States you can not become the US president with any Irish identity. Same in Turkia: no other identity but a Turkish one will get you that seat. The fact that Ozal did get the seat is proof that the concept of "Turkish identity" here is not used in ethnical sense.

51.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 08:19 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting turkodelight:

Quoting AlphaF:

Turgut Ozal was Kurdish, he eventually became the President.



Actually Turgut Ozal was a president with his turkish idendity. None of kurdish became president in turkey as their kurdish identity. he could become a president as he accepted being turkish idendity. nobody can say he was not kurdish ethnically, but his identity was turkish, there is a huge difference between these two situation.


It must be an issue of the well known here betaF's lack of integrity problem.



Sick minds, with no ideas to express, will only insult.
LAKOTA Proverb

52.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 08:35 am

Native American reservations in USA
Is this not a disgrace?
Anyone have the map of reservations for those with German or Irish ancestry?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Bia-map-indian-reservations-usa.pngscrace?

53.       catwoman
8933 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 04:00 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Sick minds, with no ideas to express, will only insult. LAKOTA Proverb


Hahahah, who gave you this proverb?

54.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 04:07 pm

It is really sad that the discussion about a sensible topic - the injustices to the Native Americans at the hands of Europeans - degrades into a series of ad hominem attacks on contributors to this site. Most US citizens find themselves unable to acknowledge the horrific genocide of the Native Americans and so, as seen here, they will distract the discussion into comparisons with other countries - instead of sticking to the topic. The simple fact is - given the huge resources of the USA - there has never been a remotely suitable program of reparations to the Native American population. Other nations that have admitted to their horrific humanitarian crimes set an example of true contrition by generous reparations, for example Germany to the Jews and Souther Africe to the Blacks. While neither of these examples is perfect, they are far and away more honest acknowledgement
of historical atrocity.

55.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 04:57 pm

"At the beginning we had all the land and the buffalos. They only had whisky and their bibles.

They killed all the buffalos and took over our land. All we were left with was their bibles."

GIVE NATIVE AMERICANS BACK WHAT THEY RIGHTFULLY OWNED. THEY DO NOT WANT ANY MORE SERMONS.

56.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 04:59 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

"At the beginning we had all the land and the buffalos. They only had whisky and their bibles.

They killed all the buffalos and took over our land. All we were left with was their bibles."

GIVE NATIVE AMERICANS BACK WHAT THEY RIGHTFULLY OWNED. THEY DO NOT WANT ANY MORE SERMONS.



They killed all the buffalos for fun.....

Men are so salak!

57.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 22 Dec 2007 Sat 05:30 pm

Right, so let's call for global justice - Americas (both of them) should belong to their native tribes, Jews should be made slaves to the restored Pharaohs..or should we go back even further? How far then? It's impossible to restore the world as it was before so it's pointless arguing which land is whose. Should Poland demand to regain the lands lost throughout history? Should Australians be forced out of Australia and give the Aborigines their land back?

58.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 Dec 2007 Sun 12:27 pm

You are pretty sharp, daydreamer...
You got the point...

59.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 23 Dec 2007 Sun 05:23 pm

alpha the monk has a complex of USA and the west!

60.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 12 Jan 2008 Sat 05:21 pm

BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE
Beginning with the Sioux victory over General Custer at Little Big Horn, BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE intertwines the unique perspectives of three characters: Charles Eastman (Adam Beach), né Ohiyesa, a young, Dartmouth-educated, Sioux doctor held up as living proof of the alleged success of assimilation; Sitting Bull (August Schellenberg), the proud Lakota chief who refuses to submit to U.S. government policies designed to strip his people of their identity, their dignity and their sacred land - the gold-laden Black Hills of the Dakotas; and Senator Henry Dawes (Aidan Quinn), one of the architects of the government policy on Indian affairs.

While Eastman and patrician schoolteacher Elaine Goodale (Anna Paquin) work to improve life for the Sioux on the reservation, Senator Dawes lobbies President Grant (Thompson) for more humane treatment, opposing the bellicose stance of General William Tecumseh Sherman (Feore).

Hope rises for the Sioux in the form of the prophet Wovoka (Studi) and the Ghost Dance - a messianic movement that promises an end of their suffering under the white man.

This hope is all but obliterated after the killing of Sitting Bull and the massacre of hundreds of Lakota men, women and children by the 7th Cavalry at Wounded Knee Creek on Dec. 29, 1890.

Published in 1971, Dee Brown's book is one of the foremost works documenting the systematic subjugation of the American Indian during the latter half of the 19th century. It has sold nearly five million copies and has been translated into 17 languages.

From Brown's encyclopedic tome chronicling the fate of the Dakota, Ute, Cheyenne and other tribes, the film focuses on the events leading up to the massacre of the Sioux, which many consider one of the most grievous atrocities in United States history.

61.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 13 Jan 2008 Sun 12:39 pm

A Joint TURKISH - NATIVE AMERICAN COMMITTE TO BE FORMED TO DISCUSS ALLEGED COMMON ROOTS BETWEEN THE TWO NATIONS

Committe to include
Brian Paterson ; Head of Western Tribes
Prof. Marjorie Mandelstam Balzer: Researcher
Asst. Prof.Carol Lujan: Arizona State University
Frank Keel: US State Department
Prof Turker Ozdogan: George Washington University
Prof. Timur Kocaoglu: Michigan State University

SOME COMMON WORDS BETWEEN THE LANGUAGES (NATIVE INDIAN: Turkish)

YATKI : Yatilacak yer, ev
TAMAZKAL : Hamam (temiz kal)
T-SUN : Uzun
TEPEK : Tepe
HU : Selam (hu)
YONUNDA : Yaninda
ASH-KOZ : Yemek (as)
TETE : Dede
TURE : Tore
ATISH-KA : Ates
YU : su
YU-MAK : Yikamak (yumak)
Kusha : Kus
Kun : Gun
Koç : Göç

62.       alameda
3499 posts
 14 Jan 2008 Mon 12:12 am

Quoting AlphaF:

A Joint TURKISH - NATIVE AMERICAN COMMITTE TO BE FORMED TO DISCUSS ALLEGED COMMON ROOTS BETWEEN THE TWO NATIONS

Committe to include
Brian Paterson ; Head of Western Tribes
Prof. Marjorie Mandelstam Balzer: Researcher
Asst. Prof.Carol Lujan: Arizona State University
Frank Keel: US State Department
Prof Turker Ozdogan: George Washington University
Prof. Timur Kocaoglu: Michigan State University

SOME COMMON WORDS BETWEEN THE LANGUAGES (NATIVE INDIAN: Turkish)

YATKI : Yatilacak yer, ev
TAMAZKAL : Hamam (temiz kal)
T-SUN : Uzun
TEPEK : Tepe
HU : Selam (hu)
YONUNDA : Yaninda
ASH-KOZ : Yemek (as)
TETE : Dede
TURE : Tore
ATISH-KA : Ates
YU : su
YU-MAK : Yikamak (yumak)
Kusha : Kus
Kun : Gun
Koç : Göç



I mentioned the similarity between the Lakota language and an old Turkish language here some time ago. People told me I was crazy, so to speak. I was watching Dances with Wolves with a Turk who speaks a few Turkic dialects and he asked me what language they were speaking. He was curious because he could understand what they were saying.


Amerindian languages

* The language spoken in the film is a fairly accurate, if simplified, version of the actual Lakota language. Lakota Sioux language instructor Doris Leader Charge (1931-2001) was the on-set Lakota dialogue coach and also portrayed Pretty Shield, wife of Chief Ten Bears, portrayed by Floyd Red Crow Westerman.

* Because Lakota contains both masculine and feminine forms of speech, the filmmakers decided to simplify the language by using the feminine form for all Lakota speech in the film. Native speakers of Lakota were reportedly highly amused by hearing warriors and other men in the film speak as if they were women.

Dances with Wolves

63.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 14 Jan 2008 Mon 12:35 am

64.       E.T.K.O
0 posts
 14 Jan 2008 Mon 10:35 am

Quoting azade:

Which başbakan was kurdish and where was he from? I didn't know this.



Also İsmet İnönü ( first prime minister and his well-known nick is kürt İsmet ) was a kurdish too.

65.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 14 Jan 2008 Mon 01:02 pm

Quoting E.T.K.O:


was a kurdish too.




Yazık E.T.K.O'ya

66.       E.T.K.O
0 posts
 17 Jan 2008 Thu 04:01 am

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting E.T.K.O:


was a kurdish too.




Yazık E.T.K.O'ya



Fortunately he kicked the bucket.

67.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Jan 2008 Fri 04:09 am

Quoting E.T.K.O:

Fortunately he kicked the bucket.



And received a nice memorial space in the 'holy pure blooded' anıt-kabir

68.       E.T.K.O
0 posts
 19 Jan 2008 Sat 05:35 am

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting E.T.K.O:

Fortunately he kicked the bucket.



And received a nice memorial space in the 'holy pure blooded' anıt-kabir



Yeah, a nice memorial space where people passes the ground under their feet.

69.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 21 Mar 2008 Fri 04:17 pm

Wiping The Tears Of Seven Generations
In December of 1990, 300 Lakota Sioux horseback riders rode 250 miles, in two weeks, through bitter sub-zero winter weather, to commemorate the lives lost at The Wounded Massacre of 1890. This program relates the story of how the Lakota Nation mourned the loss of their loved ones for 100 years. They also mourned the loss of some of their people's sacred knowledge which died with the elders that day. Then, inspired by dreams and visions of unity and spiritual awakening, a group of Lakota decided to bring their people out of mourning through a traditional Lakota ceremony which they call Washigila; "Wiping the Tears" The Bigfoot ceremonial Ride was that ceremony.


FilmFestivals, Screenings, Awards
American Indian Film Festival "Best Video" Award, 1991
National Educational Film Fest " Gold Apple: Award, 1992
C.I.N.E. "Golden Eagle" Award, 1992
American Film & Video Festival "Red Ribbon" Award, 1992
Munich International Film Festival "One Future" Prize, 1992
Parnu Anthropology Festival "Best Educational Film", 1992
New York Festivals "Silver Medal" Award, 1993

"Sensitive. Moving. Wiping The Tears Of Seven Generations is a model of the way art can be used to effect reconciliation and renewal" — Professor Huston Smith, Author of The World's Religions

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