News articles, events, announcements |
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Şark Islahat Planı 1925
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| 30. |
25 Apr 2008 Fri 04:31 pm |
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Quoting azade: janis has it never crossed your mind that maybe we criticize some things about Turkey because we want them to change, to benefit all the citizens in the country? This is the way problems are dealt with. In a supposedly democratic country there shold be no need to stress this point, as it should be natural.
If you keep closing your eyes and denying the past (and present might I add), the problem will never be solved. It has been escalating for so long now, it's time to something about it. Don't you see it's tearing up the country? It is for your own good that you face up to reality and show willingness to make peace. The kurds who want to break free of Turkey are never going to put their arms down, and regular kurds are never going to have respect and acknowledge turkish rule when the wrongs that have so obviouusly been done to them are not being recognised even today.
This is something for all hardcore nationalists to chew on. |
I dont think u have enough knowledge about all turkey. u just tell what u hear from ur kurdish friends. u say different in ur fisrt post then u change ur mind I say a different thing. I havent said anything wrong to kurdish ppl on this site. before criticizing me, first read what I post. u dont read anything then u blame me as being racist. I always said that kurdish ppl are one of the elements of this country, turkey has differences in it. and these differiences creates turkey beauty (turkish, kurdish, laz, etc). Im not against other nations. I just say main problem is TERRORİSM, not kurdish ppl, terrorism is the enemy of humanity not ony turkish ppl, terrorism kill kurdish ppl also. why u dont wanna understand????? if someone supports terrorism u can not talk with him or solve any problems, at first ppl must choose a peace way, without any weapon, u can not get any right with bombing cities. Al-qaide bombed tower, what they got, NOTHİNG!!! they did the worst thing for islam and muslims! there are injustice for everybody in turkey,, not only for kurdish ppl, there are in justice for me too, but nothing give anyone to kill innocent ppl. if u wanna solve problems, there is democracy and a parlimenters in Assembly. I distinguish TERRORİSM AND KURDİSH PPL, Im just against terrorism nothing else. please dont show me racist to others.
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| 31. |
25 Apr 2008 Fri 04:40 pm |
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Quoting janissary: Quoting azade: janis has it never crossed your mind that maybe we criticize some things about Turkey because we want them to change, to benefit all the citizens in the country? This is the way problems are dealt with. In a supposedly democratic country there shold be no need to stress this point, as it should be natural.
If you keep closing your eyes and denying the past (and present might I add), the problem will never be solved. It has been escalating for so long now, it's time to something about it. Don't you see it's tearing up the country? It is for your own good that you face up to reality and show willingness to make peace. The kurds who want to break free of Turkey are never going to put their arms down, and regular kurds are never going to have respect and acknowledge turkish rule when the wrongs that have so obviouusly been done to them are not being recognised even today.
This is something for all hardcore nationalists to chew on. |
I dont think u have enough knowledge about all turkey. u just tell what u hear from ur kurdish friends. u say different in ur fisrt post then u change ur mind I say a different thing. I havent said anything wrong to kurdish ppl on this site. before criticizing me, first read what I post. u dont read anything then u blame me as being racist. I always said that kurdish ppl are one of the elements of this country, turkey has differences in it. and these differiences creates turkey beauty (turkish, kurdish, laz, etc). Im not against other nations. I just say main problem is TERRORİSM, not kurdish ppl, terrorism is the enemy of humanity not ony turkish ppl, terrorism kill kurdish ppl also. why u dont wanna understand????? if someone supports terrorism u can not talk with him or solve any problems, at first ppl must choose a peace way, without any weapon, u can not get any right with bombing cities. Al-qaide bombed tower, what they got, NOTHİNG!!! they did the worst thing for islam and muslims! there are injustice for everybody in turkey,, not only for kurdish ppl, there are in justice for me too, but nothing give anyone to kill innocent ppl. if u wanna solve problems, there is democracy and a parlimenters in Assembly. I distinguish TERRORİSM AND KURDİSH PPL, Im just against terrorism nothing else. please dont show me racist to others. |
Do you have any idea how many times kurdish politicians were put in jail and how many years they spent there?
I dont think you have enough knowledge about the events of the country WE ARE LIVING IN.
Terrorism did not come into its existence in a night in the east of Turkey out of nothing.
Or they did not decide one night( they got bored) and said 'oh ..well..lets be terrorist then'. did they?
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| 32. |
25 Apr 2008 Fri 06:10 pm |
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janis why don't you take a stand to what I am saying and the facts which thehandsom has laid out? Instead of addressing the problem you continue in the same dreadful track of accusations.
Look kardeşim, the terrorism (very bad thing, yes we all know) we see in Turkey is highly likely a result of the politics which has been led by the government, proved by the initial post in this thread. Just take a stand already instead of accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being supporters of terrorism.
What if the tables were turned? Say you lived in another country, any country, and the government, the people there tried to make you forget your heritage, language, etc. and did dreadful things to you if you didn't comply, would you not rebel? Would you not stand up for yourself, your rights, your people and fight those wanting to oppress you?
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| 33. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 01:34 am |
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Ok handsom,im curious to know what do you think is the right way Türkiye should do to fix this problem
We already know what Jan think
He says, ''we maybe Turk,we maybe Kurd,Greek,Arab,parasian...or whatever
But we all are Turkish ''btw,Turkish in the word which describe Citizen of Türkiye,as Turkish is the name of the language too,its not as preffering one side over the other'' live in same ONE country which is Türkiye ''
That is always his main argument.
On the other side some Kurds,and many mambers here arguing that,Türkiye should give some land to the Kurd,and have some understanding in living together some how,of course on the long run say few years later if not sooner,the demands will move another step to be 1 Kurdistan...but never mind this now,its not our issue
This issue has been over discussed here,and you've always joint the other side ''not Jan's i mean'
So,as Turkish ''which again means citizen of Türkiye'' what do you think ?
You demand Türkiye to give Kurds some land also ?!
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| 34. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 01:46 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Ok handsom,im curious to know what do you think is the right way Türkiye should do to fix this problem
We already know what Jan think
He says, ''we maybe Turk,we maybe Kurd,Greek,Arab,parasian...or whatever
But we all are Turkish ''btw,Turkish in the word which describe Citizen of Türkiye,as Turkish is the name of the language too,its not as preffering one side over the other'' live in same ONE country which is Türkiye ''
That is always his main argument.
On the other side some Kurds,and many mambers here arguing that,Türkiye should give some land to the Kurd,and have some understanding in living together some how,of course on the long run say few years later if not sooner,the demands will move another step to be 1 Kurdistan...but never mind this now,its not our issue
This issue has been over discussed here,and you've always joint the other side ''not Jan's i mean'
So,as Turkish ''which again means citizen of Türkiye'' what do you think ?
You demand Türkiye to give Kurds some land also ?! |
+1 Some kurdish u mentioned doesnt want just understandding. today they talk about it they say we dont want manythings BUT in another place other kurdish parlimenters says we want a seperate "kurdistan"how will we know what they want exactly??? last year turkish governmet accepted to open "kurdish courses" in some cities. after a few months later all of them closed coz nobody interested to join. main problem is what some ppl want to do? As a turkish citizen, we all want only one turkey.
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| 35. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 01:53 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting janissary: Quoting azade: janis has it never crossed your mind that maybe we criticize some things about Turkey because we want them to change, to benefit all the citizens in the country? This is the way problems are dealt with. In a supposedly democratic country there shold be no need to stress this point, as it should be natural.
If you keep closing your eyes and denying the past (and present might I add), the problem will never be solved. It has been escalating for so long now, it's time to something about it. Don't you see it's tearing up the country? It is for your own good that you face up to reality and show willingness to make peace. The kurds who want to break free of Turkey are never going to put their arms down, and regular kurds are never going to have respect and acknowledge turkish rule when the wrongs that have so obviouusly been done to them are not being recognised even today.
This is something for all hardcore nationalists to chew on. |
I dont think u have enough knowledge about all turkey. u just tell what u hear from ur kurdish friends. u say different in ur fisrt post then u change ur mind I say a different thing. I havent said anything wrong to kurdish ppl on this site. before criticizing me, first read what I post. u dont read anything then u blame me as being racist. I always said that kurdish ppl are one of the elements of this country, turkey has differences in it. and these differiences creates turkey beauty (turkish, kurdish, laz, etc). Im not against other nations. I just say main problem is TERRORİSM, not kurdish ppl, terrorism is the enemy of humanity not ony turkish ppl, terrorism kill kurdish ppl also. why u dont wanna understand????? if someone supports terrorism u can not talk with him or solve any problems, at first ppl must choose a peace way, without any weapon, u can not get any right with bombing cities. Al-qaide bombed tower, what they got, NOTHİNG!!! they did the worst thing for islam and muslims! there are injustice for everybody in turkey,, not only for kurdish ppl, there are in justice for me too, but nothing give anyone to kill innocent ppl. if u wanna solve problems, there is democracy and a parlimenters in Assembly. I distinguish TERRORİSM AND KURDİSH PPL, Im just against terrorism nothing else. please dont show me racist to others. |
Do you have any idea how many times kurdish politicians were put in jail and how many years they spent there?
I dont think you have enough knowledge about the events of the country WE ARE LIVING IN.
Terrorism did not come into its existence in a night in the east of Turkey out of nothing.
Or they did not decide one night( they got bored) and said 'oh ..well..lets be terrorist then'. did they?
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we already know some kurdish ppl didnt want LAND in one night or a seperate kurdistan...not only them, there are some groups too, armenians also. we aware of them. before, they couldnt find enough support, now they find from europe and USA. that s why there is terrorism.
maybe we are a few on TC, but Im not only the one think like that. we are millions of Turkish Youth in turkey.
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| 36. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 03:21 pm |
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Quoting incişka: Do u think that EVERYTHING is written in history books? If there was such a plan, it would of course be a secret one. At least, Handsom has got references to it. And he wanted to share. Have u got references to support yourself too? I will never be sure on some historical issues cos they are presented to us in the way "some" people want. But that doesnt mean this şark ıslahat planı should be a lie. It is all matter of history now anyway... It was in 1925  We better look at present and to the future. |
You are such a reasonable woman, Incişka!
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| 37. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 04:04 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting incişka: Do u think that EVERYTHING is written in history books? If there was such a plan, it would of course be a secret one. At least, Handsom has got references to it. And he wanted to share. Have u got references to support yourself too? I will never be sure on some historical issues cos they are presented to us in the way "some" people want. But that doesnt mean this şark ıslahat planı should be a lie. It is all matter of history now anyway... It was in 1925 We better look at present and to the future. |
You are such a reasonable woman, Incişka!
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Like most young, educated, Turkish WOMEN I think!!
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| 38. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 04:08 pm |
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awwwww thank u both catwoman and lady 
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| 39. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 05:35 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Ok handsom,im curious to know what do you think is the right way Türkiye should do to fix this problem
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I think, first of all, we have to accept the mistakes we have made in the past.
And then we should be talking about what needs to be done in order to achive the ultimate goal of living together peacefully.
100 years ago nationalism and asimilation were the way to keep nations alive but now, nations can only survive if you make your minorities satisfied!!
I am a bit sorry to say, but, my country got stuck into last century's way of surviving.
We have to look at how national sovereignty is being percieved by some of the citizens.
If dominant group forces its values to non-dominant groups, you are creating some 'forced citizens' and I dont think we can survive with those.
In order to survive, you have to have 'voluntary citizens' and this can be achived by respecting everybody's identity in a real uniterian nation!!
I think I explained before but nationalism in Turkey right now is a nationalism with racism as an icing on top of it. It has been hijacked by the racists. (btw. the hijacking started in 1940s , with Nihal Atsiz) It is nothing to do with nationalism from Ataturk's time.
Apart from 'ne mutlu turkum diyene', almost all our sayings, almost all our proverbs are refering to an ethnic identity, a race when we say 'turk'.
It is not turkishness, which would represent a citizen of Turkey, we are talking about here. Although I am a Turk, but I can understand why some of people might be offended by forcing them to say they are turks..(Forcing a scot or irish in the uk to call himself english will be an insult for example. But they are bound to the country by being british which is not an ethnic identity. But 'Turk' is an ethnic identity)
Anyway as a solution, first of all this oppressing nationalism should be weakened in Turkey.
People should accept that problem is inside of Turkey..Not in EU or USA.
Many things from andimiz*** to constitution should be changed.
We should talk to them.
We should let them come to the parliment.**
Well in the end, I would say that we have to create a 'JUST' turkey in a way that nobody will want to leave.
Actually..just ask kurds:
-if they are allowed to come to a place in the state with their 'kurdish identity'?
-if they are allowed to elect their own governor (vali) in a proper uniter Turkey?
-are they allowed to speak kurdish in local governments/ are they allowed to learn and teach kurdish language as an option in schools/ are they allowed to use kurdish in tvs/radios/papers? in a country that has the officila language as turkish?
-if there is an insult or anything , as kurds are they allowed to take them to court and get penalized?
when they say yes to above, we dont have kurdish problem anymore.
ps..giving a piece of land from turkey to anybody has never ever came into my mind as a solution. It is not a solution..
***(Just think of it: turks in greece, in primary schools, turkish childeren saying ' I am Greek, I am honest, I am hard working... May my existence be a gift to the Greek existence' .
why would turks should be forced to say that?
But why are we forcing Kurds to say that?
ridiculous !!)
** (Look at this list: 1971 TİP, 1980 TEP, 1991 TBKP, 1992 SP, 1993 HEP, 1993 ÖZDEP, 1993 STP, 1994 DEP, 1997 EP, 1999 DKP, 2003 HADEP..these are the parties that talked about kurdish rights and they were all closed!!
So far, by closing their parties, we gave the kurds two options only:
1- Be assimilated and become a turk
2- rebel and go to mountains.)
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| 40. |
26 Apr 2008 Sat 11:37 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting CANLI: Ok handsom,im curious to know what do you think is the right way Türkiye should do to fix this problem
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Actually..just ask kurds:
-if they are allowed to come to a place in the state with their 'kurdish identity'?
-if they are allowed to elect their own governor (vali) in a proper uniter Turkey?
-are they allowed to speak kurdish in local governments/ are they allowed to learn and teach kurdish language as an option in schools/ are they allowed to use kurdish in tvs/radios/papers? in a country that has the officila language as turkish?
-if there is an insult or anything , as kurds are they allowed to take them to court and get penalized?
when they say yes to above, we dont have kurdish problem anymore.
ps..giving a piece of land from turkey to anybody has never ever came into my mind as a solution. It is not a solution..
***(Just think of it: turks in greece, in primary schools, turkish childeren saying ' I am Greek, I am honest, I am hard working... May my existence be a gift to the Greek existence' .
why would turks should be forced to say that?
But why are we forcing Kurds to say that?
ridiculous !!)
** (Look at this list: 1971 TİP, 1980 TEP, 1991 TBKP, 1992 SP, 1993 HEP, 1993 ÖZDEP, 1993 STP, 1994 DEP, 1997 EP, 1999 DKP, 2003 HADEP..these are the parties that talked about kurdish rights and they were all closed!!
So far, by closing their parties, we gave the kurds two options only:
1- Be assimilated and become a turk
2- rebel and go to mountains.)
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İ dont understand how do you compare Turk in Greece by Kurd in Türkiye?!
Greece not the Turks country,its the greeks country,but Türkiye is Kurd's country as they are Turkish citizen
Dont you consider them part of your society ?
Do you see them as same as turks in Greece or Turk is USA or whatever ?!!!
We are talking about citizens of the same country here,and in that country
İ dont understand,do you think that Kurds should have a kurdish identity not a Turkish one ?!
You are in UK as i understood,do you see British citizens have another identity apart from being british?!
The language of the country is Turkish,so how can they talk kurdish in local governments?
İ mean in UK is it acceptable that peple talk French or Arabic in local governmets?!
Or the language of the country is English,so they use it in formal levels,and who want to speak other language they can do it unformaly?!
You are talking as if they are another people,in another country inside Türkiye ?!
Well,i guess that is not acceptable in any country,that some group of people,no matter small or big,can form small country inside
But,
İf the majority of the city,or köyler are Kurds,and if they elected another Kurd as Mayor or something,of course they should be allowed to that
İts their right as citizens of the country
İf they want to learn Kurdish language as second language or third language in school,they also should be allowed,but of course beside learning their first laguage which is Turkish,the formal language of the country..
they should have their rights as any citizen of the country.
And saying...'ne mutlu turkum diyene'
İsnt that mean,happy who say im Turkish ?!
Arent they Turkish citizens ?!
İn my opinion,they should melt in the community as Turkish citizens while keeping their identity,and demand their rights as Turkish citizens also.
İf their parts won in the elections then its their right to have them as any Turkish citizen.
İts not something you or anyone give to them,they must know this,and Turk must know this also,it is their RİGHTS as Turkish citizens...
Being citizen of the country has its rights and its duties,and so they have it also..
And one of them to elect who they want,but as being Turkish citizens,and from here they can improve their stiuations in the country, build new schools,hospitals,gain more rights..ect as any part who serve the people who elected them
But speaking about Kurds identity,or using Kurds language in formal is not normal inside united country
Or else it would be fair also that Arab and Persian and Greek will come and demand to speak their languages and have their own identities as Arab,Persian,and Greeks,...ect
Then Türkiye will be a hotle that contain different people living together not a United country with 1 identity and one language as any other country
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