Turkey |
|
|
|
|
|
What is pan-Turanianism?
|
| 1. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 03:31 pm |
|
Pan-Turanian activists have developed a fascinating mythology with respect to the origins of the Turks. This is the legend of a certain “Boz Kurt†(Grey Wolf) who roared out to the ancestors of the Turks and the Huns to migrate west from their homelands in Siberia and Central Asia. The Grey Wolf then allegedly pointed the way west and south: presumably against Persia, Anatolia, the Caucasus, the Near East, Russia, Ukraine, the Balkans, Greece and Western Europe.
It must be made clear once again that the majority of the people of Turkey do not support pan-Turanianism. Pan-Turanianism represents a minority opinion at best. The majority of Turks are disinterested in chauvinistic violence and expansionism.
Pan-Turanianism is a racialist movement that not only threatens Iran, but Greece, Armenia, Russia, Ukraine and even (to a more limited extent) China. If unchecked, Pan-Turanianism may become as dangerous to international peace and stability as Islamic fundamentalism has became today.
|
|
| 2. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 04:30 pm |
|
Facinating information.
|
|
| 3. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 09:56 pm |
|
why is it so dangerous?
|
|
| 4. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 10:31 pm |
|
Ultra nationalism ... Hrant Dink ... Malatya ... Ergenekon
Just join up the dots and follow the links.
|
|
| 5. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 12:16 am |
|
Quoting MarioninTurkey: Ultra nationalism ... Hrant Dink ... Malatya ... Ergenekon
Just join up the dots and follow the links. |
I dont think the main idea of Turanism was that when it first emerged.. Like many other -ism's people has changed it the way they like so they could use it as a mask to cover their real dirty souls.
|
|
| 6. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 12:53 am |
|
Can somebody explain in more detail what is Ergenekon? A sect? I do see the symbol of the grey wolf movement here:
http://www.ulkusohbet.com/modules/Duvar_Kagitlari/ergenekon.jpg
pls. what do these Turkish words mean?
|
|
| 7. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:07 am |
|
Quoting Roswitha: Can somebody explain in more detail what is Ergenekon? A sect? I do see the symbol of the grey wolf movement here:
http://www.ulkusohbet.com/modules/Duvar_Kagitlari/ergenekon.jpg
pls. what do these Turkish words mean? |
Ergenekon yurdun adı
Börteçine kurdun adı
Dört yüz sene durdun haydi
Çık ey yüz bin mızrağımız!!
Ergenekon is the name of our land
Börteçine is the name of the wolf (female wolf)
You have been silent for 4 hundred years,
Turn up,hey, our 1hundred lances!!
The ergenekon in this poem has nothing to do with the Ergenekon that's seen in the news these days. The Ergenekon is the place where Turks lived in peace but trapped surrounded by the mountains for a long time until the wolf turned up and showed the way out to Turks  This is a Turkish legend
|
|
| 8. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:14 am |
|
Imazing, how well you translate Turkish. Good for you. I thank you.
|
|
| 9. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:20 am |
|
If you want to know more about PanTurianism or PanTurkism (these two are not the same but rather close), you can read the work of Ziya Gökalp. In the time of Atatürk, he wrote a work about Türkçülük (he uses the german Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft in it, but changes him according to a turkish system). He bounces somewhat between pan-turkism and pan-turianism, but it sure is an interesting read.
It is interesting to mention he was a Kurd though. It somewhat implies his thoughts were like the Türkiyeli that Atatürk meant (İ guess).
(this is the panturanianism in its old version though.. i dont think it was as racist as it is now... I advice all people to stay away from Ülkücü people!!  )
|
|
| 10. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:25 am |
|
Türkiyeli!!! That's what I want in Turkey!!! So no any ethnic people will be uncomfortable with it. Not Türk first, but Türkiyeli first. I dont mean to assimilate minorities, I always support them, but I think they should support Türkiye too. a lot to be done 
|
|
| 11. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:27 am |
|
Quoting Deli_kizin:
this is the panturanianism in its old version though.. i dont think it was as racist as it is now... |
Yeah, that was what I was trying to say in my previous post
|
|
| 12. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 01:46 am |
|
Deli Kizin, I found this under
Ülkücü
|
|
| 13. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 02:54 am |
|
Quoting Roswitha: Deli Kizin, I found this under
Ülkücü
< src='> |
You could proably find more people in the US than Turkia to endorse that photo. Besides, the noose doesn't have a slip knot even! But I respect the cautionary warnings.
|
|
| 14. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 02:57 am |
|
Hey Roswitha, somehow my comment got attached to your Post!
Apologies. I tried to quote you but delete the picture, but my comment just got pulled into your post!
|
|
| 15. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 03:14 am |
|
Quoting longinotti1: Hey Roswitha, somehow my comment got attached to your Post!
Apologies. I tried to quote you but delete the picture, but my comment just got pulled into your post! |
Spooky! 
Ouhhh...are you a wizard? 
|
|
| 16. |
29 Apr 2008 Tue 03:26 am |
|
I will get rid of the noose picture and find a replacement.
|
|
| 17. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 02:17 am |
|
Quoting Roswitha: Pan-Turanian activists have developed a fascinating mythology with respect to the origins of the Turks. This is the legend of a certain “Boz Kurt†(Grey Wolf) who roared out to the ancestors of the Turks and the Huns to migrate west from their homelands in Siberia and Central Asia. The Grey Wolf then allegedly pointed the way west and south: presumably against Persia, Anatolia, the Caucasus, the Near East, Russia, Ukraine, the Balkans, Greece and Western Europe.
It must be made clear once again that the majority of the people of Turkey do not support pan-Turanianism. Pan-Turanianism represents a minority opinion at best. The majority of Turks are disinterested in chauvinistic violence and expansionism.
Pan-Turanianism is a racialist movement that not only threatens Iran, but Greece, Armenia, Russia, Ukraine and even (to a more limited extent) China. If unchecked, Pan-Turanianism may become as dangerous to international peace and stability as Islamic fundamentalism has became today. |
This is a very wrong definition of pan-turanism. Pan-turanism is not the same thing as what mhp represents. Infact many of the supporters of this idea are non-Turks as it includes not only the Turkic people but also Hungarians, Finns, Mongolians and even Japanese and Koreans.(all the Ural-Altaic people)
I don`t know where you`re from but you definitely don`t know anything about mhp. I`m sure you think that mhp is a nationalistic party but it`s in fact a wahabi/islamist party funded by America to slow down the communist movements in Turkey.
And I don`t think pan-Turanism is more dangerous than pan-Europeanism aka EU. You call pan-Turanism a racialistic movement but what is EU then???
|
|
| 18. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 04:55 am |
|
btw. the first person who came up with the idea of Pan-Turanism was Mathias Alexander Castren, a Finnish linguist. I don`t think he was a mhp supporter either.
|
|
| 19. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 12:08 pm |
|
Quoting incişka: Türkiyeli!!! That's what I want in Turkey!!! So no any ethnic people will be uncomfortable with it. Not Türk first, but Türkiyeli first. I dont mean to assimilate minorities, I always support them, but I think they should support Türkiye too. a lot to be done |
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
|
|
| 20. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 12:21 pm |
|
Quoting incişka: Türkiyeli!!! That's what I want in Turkey!!! So no any ethnic people will be uncomfortable with it. Not Türk first, but Türkiyeli first. I dont mean to assimilate minorities, I always support them, but I think they should support Türkiye too. a lot to be done |
+10000
and yessss. "A lot to be done"
|
|
| 21. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 02:50 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta: Quoting incişka: Türkiyeli!!! That's what I want in Turkey!!! So no any ethnic people will be uncomfortable with it. Not Türk first, but Türkiyeli first. I dont mean to assimilate minorities, I always support them, but I think they should support Türkiye too. a lot to be done |
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
|
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
u should read it again ,again,again
|
|
| 22. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 02:51 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta:
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
|
Sorry, but what does this have to with my post? I didnt say the minorities cant have their names in their own languages or use their languages in public. I know they can do that. My only point was that "we should use the term "Türkiyeli" instead of "Türk" primarily. If I were a kurd or something else (btw I am Tatar) I wouldnt like to say "Ben Türk'üm. But rather say " Ben Türkiyeliyim" "Ben Türkiyeli bir Kürdüm or Tatarım".
And we dont need to compare our country to any other countries to realize this. We have our own brains and can decide what is good and what is bad.
|
|
| 23. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:03 pm |
|
Quoting incişka: Quoting Lapinkulta:
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
|
Sorry, but what does this have to with my post? I didnt say the minorities cant have their names in their own languages or use their languages in public. I know they can do that. My only point was that "we should use the term "Türkiyeli" instead of "Türk" primarily. If I were a kurd or something else (btw I am Tatar) I wouldnt like to say "Ben Türk'üm. But rather say " Ben Türkiyeliyim" "Ben Türkiyeli bir Kürdüm or Tatarım".
And we dont need to compare our country to any other countries to realize this. We have our own brains and can decide what is good and what is bad. |
u are tatar,and u say these..so please read about your history and what did russian to your nations coz of their natinoality...then dont compare your history with minorities in TR...
|
|
| 24. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:07 pm |
|
Quoting incişka: Türkiyeli!!! That's what I want in Turkey!!! So no any ethnic people will be uncomfortable with it. Not Türk first, but Türkiyeli first. I dont mean to assimilate minorities, I always support them, but I think they should support Türkiye too. a lot to be done |
There is nothing wrong with saying of 'Turkiyeli' inciska.
Even if not now, in the future people will be calling themselves Turkiyeli. It is inevitable basically.
|
|
| 25. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:12 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta: Quoting incişka: Quoting Lapinkulta:
sekerim, try to learn what is happening in other countries to minorities...
in greece, it is forbidden to use ''Turkish'' name in any association...there were really strict rules and punishment if someone use it...so it has been like that before their EU membership or later...They call all Turkish who live in greece as a muslim greeks...So before talking about that subject, compare with other countries ...
in Turkey every nations have right to use their language for ages, even ppl refuse it...yes other languages are not official language in education etc..., it is true and have to be like that coz u have to know language of the country where u lived for continuing education...it is also same in USA,UK or any other country...
|
Sorry, but what does this have to with my post? I didnt say the minorities cant have their names in their own languages or use their languages in public. I know they can do that. My only point was that "we should use the term "Türkiyeli" instead of "Türk" primarily. If I were a kurd or something else (btw I am Tatar) I wouldnt like to say "Ben Türk'üm. But rather say " Ben Türkiyeliyim" "Ben Türkiyeli bir Kürdüm or Tatarım".
And we dont need to compare our country to any other countries to realize this. We have our own brains and can decide what is good and what is bad. |
u are tatar,and u say these..so please read about your history and what did russian to your nations coz of their natinoality...then dont compare your history with minorities in TR... |
sekerim, olmazsa tatar vatan batar
|
|
| 26. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:13 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta:
u are tatar,and u say these..so please read about your history and what did russian to your nations coz of their natinoality...then dont compare your history with minorities in TR... |
The only thing I can tell u is that " you are very good at missing the main points!!!" 
Am I talking about history here? Am I talking about how bad the minorities were treated in any country? Or talking what did Russians do to my ancestors?
I am just saying that "we all have to be "TÃœRKİYELİ" for the good of this country!!!! OFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!! Is that wrong? Should Kurds say "I am not a Turk so I dont belong to Turkey, so I should get my own territory apart from Turkey"? I am trying to say how we can stop this kind of opinion. And calling everybody "Türkiyeli" first can help. And if still they want they can say I am Türkiyeli Kürd or something like that! But always the title "Türkiyeli" should come before all ethnicities including Turks too. If you still dont get it, I have nothing to say.... 
|
|
| 27. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:15 pm |
|
I will add again the poem written by Bulent Ecevit..
PÃœLÃœMÃœRÃœN YAŞSIZ KADINI
Pülümürün bir dağ köyünde gördüm onu
yaşını sordum bir giz gibi güldü
kimi seksen dedi köylülerden kimi yüz
yüzüne baktım bir giz gibi güldü
bir asa vardı elinde
bir solmuş kırallığın
kadifeden harmanisi üzerinde
bir hititliydi o bir selçukluydu
bir ermeniydi bir kürttü
bir türk
yaşını sordum bir giz gibi güldü
koluma girdi bir soylu kadınca
tozlu köy yolunda sürüyerek eteğini
beni tek gözlü sarayına götürdü
köy yapısı kulübesinin
zamanı onda yitirdim ben
yitik zamanlara onda eriştim
en soylu yoksulluğun toprak döşeli sarayında
bir taç gibi kondu başıma Türkiyeliliğim
|
|
| 28. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:18 pm |
|
Quoting Lapinkulta:
sekerim, olmazsa tatar vatan batar |
Saol. Kendini bi şey sanan tatarların uydurduğu güzel bi söz bu. Ne yaptığımız var ki? Çoğumuz kendi dilimizi bile konuşamıyoruz doğru düzgün. Dili unutmak iyi değil tabi ama biz Tatarlar "Türkiyeli" olmayı az çok başardık sanırım.
|
|
| 29. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:19 pm |
|
Can someone please translate "Turkiyeli" into English? Do they have a similar word in Germany, Italy, or France???
|
|
| 30. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:20 pm |
|
Quoting thehandsom: I will add again the poem written by Bulent Ecevit..
PÃœLÃœMÃœRÃœN YAŞSIZ KADINI
Pülümürün bir dağ köyünde gördüm onu
yaşını sordum bir giz gibi güldü
kimi seksen dedi köylülerden kimi yüz
yüzüne baktım bir giz gibi güldü
bir asa vardı elinde
bir solmuş kırallığın
kadifeden harmanisi üzerinde
bir hititliydi o bir selçukluydu
bir ermeniydi bir kürttü
bir türk
yaşını sordum bir giz gibi güldü
koluma girdi bir soylu kadınca
tozlu köy yolunda sürüyerek eteğini
beni tek gözlü sarayına götürdü
köy yapısı kulübesinin
zamanı onda yitirdim ben
yitik zamanlara onda eriştim
en soylu yoksulluğun toprak döşeli sarayında
bir taç gibi kondu başıma Türkiyeliliğim
|
Tek kelime: Mükemmel!!! Excellent!! Thanx for posting!
|
|
| 31. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:26 pm |
|
Quoting tamikidakika: Can someone please translate "Turkiyeli" into English? Do they have a similar word in Germany, Italy, or France??? |
Well,
The best example is 'british'. British does not represent an ethnicity. It means a person belongs to a country called britan (UK). But 'english', 'scott', 'welsh', 'irish' represent ethnicity.
Anyway, wording is not the problem.
But if germans forced the turks to say 'ne mutlu I am german diyene' and then it would have been a problem in germany too.
|
|
| 32. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 03:29 pm |
|
Quoting thehandsom: Quoting tamikidakika: Can someone please translate "Turkiyeli" into English? Do they have a similar word in Germany, Italy, or France??? |
Well,
The best example is 'british'. British does not represent an ethnicity. It means a person belongs to a country called britan (UK). But 'english', 'scott', 'welsh', 'irish' represent ethnicity.
Anyway, wording is not the problem.
But if germans forced the turks to say 'ne mutlu I am german diyene' and then it would have been a problem in germany too. |
Britons----->British
Ok if that`s the problem lets get rid of the "ne mutlu Turk`um diyene" phrase. No need to make up freaking words like "Turkiyeli"
|
|
| 33. |
30 Apr 2008 Wed 08:55 pm |
|
Quoting tamikidakika:
Ok if that`s the problem lets get rid of the "ne mutlu Turk`um diyene" phrase. No need to make up freaking words like "Turkiyeli"
|
How can we get rid of the our Founder's quote?  And why is the word Türkiyeli freaking? It is not a made-up word. It's not new, it's already been being used.
|
|
|
