Turkish Politics |
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Why most 'educated' Turks are more close-minded!!
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| 50. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:10 am |
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Quoting cynicmystic: Cheers for the warm welcome.
I may come off as a bit too direct or aggressive, but I often speak my mind. |
So is being aggressive forgiven once a person 'speaks her/his mind'? And.. why are you bashing others for speaking theirs?
Your aggressive introduction put me off from reading your post, it made me think that you are biased and emotionally attached to a certain point of view - which prevents you from being objective.
But I have now read your post and you have some good points.
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| 51. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:18 am |
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Because I am under the impression that handsom starts these rather "charged" topics with a bit of an "agenda", and in my opinion, deserves a rather straight-forward in-your-face response, just like the one I took the time to make.
I may be wrong about this. I may be not. Nevertheles, I did take the time to post my honest opinion. If my opinion bashed you in any way, that is perhaps you sound very bashable.
On a forum like this, of course you should be ready for replies like mine, when you start such threads. What is the problem, am I too direct? What you call "bashing" is the same "bashing" that this article does.
I don't wear masks like most people. And, it gives me joy to see how it annoys others, who do.
Quoting catwoman: Quoting cynicmystic: Cheers for the warm welcome.
I may come off as a bit too direct or aggressive, but I often speak my mind. |
So is being aggressive forgiven once a person 'speaks her/his mind'? And.. why are you bashing others for speaking theirs? |
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| 52. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:21 am |
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Obviously, for the next time, you should read the post first before replying to what someone else wrote.
Thanks, though, I really appreciate your acknowledgement of my "good points".
Quoting catwoman: Quoting cynicmystic: Cheers for the warm welcome.
I may come off as a bit too direct or aggressive, but I often speak my mind. |
So is being aggressive forgiven once a person 'speaks her/his mind'? And.. why are you bashing others for speaking theirs?
Your aggressive introduction put me off from reading your post, it made me think that you are biased and emotionally attached to a certain point of view - which prevents you from being objective.
But I have now read your post and you have some good points. |
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| 53. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:22 am |
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Please do not quote such long post inside eachother. Only quote what you really respond to, and delete all the quotes inside that you don't need.
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| 54. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:47 am |
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Thank you DK!!! 
Man, that makes me crazy!!!
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| 55. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 01:47 am |
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I must admit I am having one of the seven deadly sins about your writing style. But, the writing style is not everything of course, unless the writing itself is filled up with real substance, which seems to be the lucking element in your post.
Quoting cynicmystic:
I am neither sure from which country the individual who posted this article is nor do I particularly care about it. Unlike you, however, I will show the courtesy of sharing with others my background, which is Turkish. Had you done the same, we would know where you are from, as well.
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Where I am from seems to be a rather hot and pathetic topic which keeps coming back again and again, like the meals you cook, cant finish, put it into fridge and bring it back to the table night after night on a little plate . ie 'kuru fasulye'. (Talking about poor Africans who could not even find it may help!)
I am as Turk as anybody can be a Turk. I guess you have not been following the topics. Almost anybody who follows the discussions, knows my nationality which has never been a secret kept in Pandora's box.
I was born in trachea part of Turkey but I grew up in Istanbul where I had my most glorious and happiest years up to date. Although I am aware the amazing fact that you don't care where I am from, I wanted to write it to stop this bizarre speculation as if I am afraid to say 'where I am from' and at the same time, in case you get curious about it in the future!! .
Quoting cynicmystic:
Copy-pasting a rather "biased" article to start a "charged" topic without any of your own input or thoughts clearly shows that unless someone else puts it into writing, you do not seem to be able to do it for yourself. As a result, instead of responding to your own thoughts, the readers of your pathetic thread are forced to respond to an "article". Well, we might as well send a carbon copy of our replies to the publishing newspaper as well, wouldn't you say?
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What makes you think that I don't seem to be able to put my ideas into writing? how did you get that idea? It was simply a post regarding an article I wanted to share here which is done by almost everybody else.
It is not a pathetic thread with some shallow contents in it and you know it
Quoting cynicmystic:
Let's start with an analysis of the bombastic lingo in this article...
".............. These European-looking Turks are also quite militarist and nationalist according to Western standards."
What the hell are we supposed to understand from an idiotic statement like this? ...
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I think, you missed the point about 'European-looking' phrase up there as the writer would not classify Turks with nationalistic views and label them European looking and tag the other Turks who seems to think 'nationalism is not a god given element to Turks', as non European-looking. I think it is nothing to do with the appearance it is more like the life style, education etc.
Quoting cynicmystic:
Another important issue is the criteria for the so-called "western standards" in regards to being "militaristic nationalists". Believe me that there are no such standards, and any bombastic author that makes such references in his writing is surely talking out of his ass. On a different tune, Europeans aren't impressing anyone in the world with their "European standards" anymore anyways. Those days have been over for quite a while.
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I think you are deluding yourself with the point of view, which makes me think, somehow, coming from an inferior complex.
I don't want to sound to be very enthusiastic about the west but weather you accept or not there is a concept called 'western/European standards' and people think they exist!! Europens are not impressing anyone in the world is a one of the most brilliant thoughts I have heard of for ages. What do you think it would have happened If those'non impressive Europeans' lifted border restrictions to the others which by your account nations having impressive 'militaristic nationalist' standards. ( There was a survey about Turkish youth and one of the most striking result of it was serious chunk of Turkish youth want to live in Europe)
Quoting cynicmystic:
Regarding the issue of indoctrination at Turkish schools, I am surprised by how one-sided his view is. Every country in the world that has an education system & a national identity indoctrinates their young ones. Yes, the level and intensity of indoctrination varies from country to country, but nevertheless, every country, even the "civilized" Western countries, indoctrinate their children in one form or the other. If the writer of the article, and the other clowns on this forum, who seem to support his views, are claiming that the situation in Turkey is exceptional, and much worse, then I would have to disagree with that.
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Well, what can I say for the above paragraph? Not much really! It seems like you are a great example of the indoctrination which all of us have been distilled . I don't think every country indoctrinates their youngsters with the poems like -I gave this before- "Atalarim gökten yere indirmisler ayyildizi/Bir buluta sarmislar ki, rengi safaktan kirmizi" (a simplistic translation of it would be "my ancestors brought down the crescent and the star, from sky to earth/they wrapped them into a cloud redder than dawn") or song like 'kahraman irkima sizmis ihanet/dusmanlarin dost degil hepsi de namert'
Quoting cynicmystic:
As someone who had to go through the ritual of "swearing alliance & oath" in the mornings, on the contrary to the writer's claims, I didn't turn out to be a "militaristic Kemalist" bent on suppressing other minorities and imposing Kemalist values. ....
Writing an article about how children are being brainwashed because of the morning oath is nothing but a cheap shot without much aim.
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Offf..Again..you are not getting the point.. '"swearing alliance & oath" in the mornings' is just a tiny example of the whole indoctrination.
Quoting cynicmystic:
Let's quote another bombastic statement:
.....ones expressed in the article are not only inaccurate observations, but are also generalizations.
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Before labeling Inciska about inaccurate observation and generalisation, I will advice you read bit more about our 'recent' history. The country we are living right now is almost ethnically cleansed for one way or another about 100 years ago. You seem to forget what we have done to Kurds/Armenians/Greeks and what we are still doing to the kurds which seems to the only crowded ethnic group. (thanks for the info about laz/languages etc). And the real problem is that you are not allowed to talk about it
Quoting cynicmystic:
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Yes, there is discrimination & suppression in Turkey in one form or the other just like everywhere else in the world. However, this discrimination is not exactly or predominantly ethnic. It is a lot more complicated than that.
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Please read the thread about 'sark islahat plani' regarding discrimination which has been systematic through out our young republic's life. Telling that the discrimination is not predominantly ethnic is a bit naive and not reflecting the reality (and somehow I have this gut feeling that you know this too!!)
Quoting cynicmystic:
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I think your thread is insincere my friend.
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I think your entire reaction is coming from the urge which happens to be almost every Turk is having:
The urge to feel representing Turkey when they see two foreigners being critical about Turkey. haha
This is an urge coming from the education which taught us there is 'us' and 'them' only.
The reality is almost all of us know what problems we have in Turkey.
The problem here is : if you have guts to be brave and tell the truth or not.
That is the difference between you and me Mystic.
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| 56. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 02:01 am |
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Quoting cynicmystic: Because I am under the impression that handsom starts these rather "charged" topics with a bit of an "agenda", and in my opinion, deserves a rather straight-forward in-your-face response, just like the one I took the time to make.
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Well done!!
Why dont you tell us the "agenda" I have and finish this misery of wondering about what "my agenda" is?
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| 57. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 02:05 am |
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Quoting cynicmystic: Are you as handsom as your nick suggests?
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Naah..just kidding!!
Just a quicky : what is this sudden interest about me? 
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| 58. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 02:10 am |
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oh yeah? what are those European standards?
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| 59. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 02:11 am |
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I really don't agree with you. Simple as that.
But, that is what makes these forums so much fun.
I think we will have a great time debating in the future.
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| 60. |
13 Jun 2008 Fri 02:13 am |
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I promise to tone down the attitude in my posts.
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