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Why criticism of Islam is a necessity
(112 Messages in 12 pages - View all)
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50.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 12:51 am

 

 Well,actually Sui,i wont ,im very busy studying

Beside,i believe i said many things before,so they can consider me saying them again lol

 

But my point was,we can debat or criticise each other believes,i also dont have their believe,but we should respect each other Holy books,prophets,...ect

51.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 01:03 am

 

Quoting CANLI

Our imams also say same thing about Ayşe´s age using math related to her older sister´s(Esma) biography.

And also the fact that she was engaged before to another man.

 

Well

of course, if your imams said the otherwise they would not stay as imam..

Tabari

Bukhari

Abu Dawud

They all say that Ayse was 9 years old when the marriage was consumed. They lived very close to the time when Mohammed was lived and marrying a girl at that age was not considered as blashamy as it is today.

And about me saying jokingly if he was a dudu: Of course I was refering to his marriage to hatica when she was 40 and he was 25 with not much money (and the 500 gold pieces he allegedly paid meyr -money a man paid to the woman before marriage-) and his other wives and slaves etc..

But anyway..That is not the topic here.

The topic was the ´necessity of criticism´

 

52.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 01:08 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

Well

of course, if your imams said the otherwise they would not stay as imam..

 

 What do you mean ?

Beside i believe you dont know my imams lol

The ones i refer to are the ones who have same positions as Sui said in Türkiye,and they are stating same

Also Syria´s imam stating same

So i guess,i also can provide such sources.

 

So,i dont get you,do you believe Rasul SAV was a dudu when he married Hadije ?!

And he was after her money ?!

And that wealthy woman,who was her hand asked to be wed from many other men,that wise woman who was running a very successful business,and whom has a high place in the society,picked him because .......?!

 

 

53.       teaschip
3870 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 05:57 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Rumor says he was gay or womanizer teas?!

İ dont think its appropriate to call a prophet either way,or dudu come to think about it !

 

 I was giving an example from what handsom wrote..and yes there is a RUMOR he was gay and also a womanizer...I did not CALL a prophet anything!  Clearly, this is how rumors get started. ):

54.       alameda
3499 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 06:39 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

Beside,i believe i said many things before,so they can consider me saying them again lol

 

 

 "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success." (Mein Kampf, vol. 1, chapter 6)

 

Catapult The Propaganda

 

55.       alameda
3499 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 07:28 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 I was giving an example from what handsom wrote..and yes there is a RUMOR he was gay and also a womanizer...I did not CALL a prophet anything!  Clearly, this is how rumors get started. ):

 

 What you have done is imply or insinuate such a thing. It really is sneaky back door technique. You say, well I don´t know, but others have said..... and by suggestion your point gets over. It could be that you just don´t understand the implication and effect of your words, but it´s good to bear in mind that words are powerful.

 

You must understand that to Muslims, Mohammed, (sawas) is very dear. He is more beloved than you can imagine. You know what happens when someone curses or insults one´s mother or father. How do you think such things are perceived in the Islamic world?

 

If what you want is to hurt feelings, stir up hatered and discord, keep on by all means. If you want to foster understanding and cooperation, I would discourage such methods.

56.       teaschip
3870 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 08:01 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 What you have done is imply or insinuate such a thing. It really is sneaky back door technique. You say, well I don´t know, but others have said..... and by suggestion your point gets over. It could be that you just don´t understand the implication and effect of your words, but it´s good to bear in mind that words are powerful.

 

You must understand that to Muslims, Mohammed, (sawas) is very dear. He is more beloved than you can imagine. You know what happens when someone curses or insults one´s mother or father. How do you think such things are perceived in the Islamic world?

 

If what you want is to hurt feelings, stir up hatered and discord, keep on by all means. If you want to foster understanding and cooperation, I would discourage such methods.

 

You can say whatever you like but there are many other sources claim the opposite.

This is a contraversial issue , i dont think it will be solved easily and I dont think we will have an idea which will be known as ´a 100% fact´..

And also, aishe´s age is one of the hundreds of contraversial topics. (how many wives Mohammed had, how many childeren, was he a dudu when he was marrying hatice, how did he get married to his step son´s wife, why suddenly there was something before god which allowed him to marry her etc..)

Basically, all these have to be discussed without fear and being told of ´ah you are NOT respecting my religion´

Quote:handsom

 

If you would open your eyes Alameda you would see I was mearly pointing out another RUMOR that is also controversial including the above.  What don´t you get about a RUMOR...it doesn´t insuiate or validate the truth.  Sorry, but I didn´t start this RUMOR and hopefully most people with common sense know never to believe one, unless you have facts.  I was giving another example including the many other rumors above that Handsom mentions.  Some people just like to make a mole hill into a mountain. 

 

I also heard a RUMOR that Mary wasn´t a virgin...no offense.  Oh and Elvis is alive!

57.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 08:31 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

If you would open your eyes Alameda you would see I was mearly pointing out another RUMOR that is also controversial including the above.  What don´t you get about a RUMOR...it doesn´t insuiate or validate the truth.  Sorry, but I didn´t start this RUMOR and hopefully most people with common sense know never to believe one, unless you have facts.  I was giving another example including the many other rumors above that Handsom mentions.  Some people just like to make a mole hill into a mountain. 

 

I also heard a RUMOR that Mary wasn´t a virgin...no offense.  Oh and Elvis is alive!

 

 

 

 I also heard that "God is a DJ"

58.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 08:40 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 It has nothing to do with my opinion. I did not state my opinion. What I did do was to point out the obvious, that seems to have been forgotten by many.....sorry if it offends you, but it is a historic fact, and a continued technique.

 

Perhaps being reminded is not so bad? Or...do you suggest we should forget?

 

If you are that honest (...) there are many other sources to show the technique you wanted to show. I´m sure you can find many more links to educate us. The fact you have chosen this quotation tells me a lot about you....

59.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 08:44 pm

 

Quoting SuiGeneris

 I also heard that "God is a DJ"

 

Can He (or She - when you are Pagan) then please play some other songs? The war sounds of the last decade are getting boring.

60.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 15 Aug 2008 Fri 08:51 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Well

of course, if your imams said the otherwise they would not stay as imam..

Tabari

Bukhari

Abu Dawud

They all say that Ayse was 9 years old when the marriage was consumed. They lived very close to the time when Mohammed was lived and marrying a girl at that age was not considered as blashamy as it is today.

And about me saying jokingly if he was a dudu: Of course I was refering to his marriage to hatica when she was 40 and he was 25 with not much money (and the 500 gold pieces he allegedly paid meyr -money a man paid to the woman before marriage-) and his other wives and slaves etc..

But anyway..That is not the topic here.

The topic was the ´necessity of criticism´

 

 Can you give me the lines where those imams said that? as i given my source?

 

and you are forgetting the fact that... Mohammed meets with Islam during the marriage of his with Hatice! and Hatice was one of the first people who accepted the islam

 

And he was not after hatica! it was vice versa... duty his being honest and very good charactered person   so we can say that he was not a Dudu ...

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