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Real Ataturk or Western-backed plot?
(174 Messages in 18 pages - View all)
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1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 09:43 am

deleted

2.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 11:56 am

Who cares how the movie presents Ataturk. We have enough evidence. Let us just remember what he said to the world and what the world said about him.

 

Ataturk lived in a world populated with leaders like :

 

Winston Churchill

 

Let us depict the best one first:

 

He supported fascists against communists, understood their motives  He then stood against fascists because all he was after was a power play.

 

Defended the use of poisonous gas against the defying Kurds and Arabs.

 

Explained that Europe were entitled to the land of Indians likening them to a dog in a mangle saying the dog can not claim the ownership of the mangle just because he has been there for a long time.

 

Excessively and unnecessarily carpet bombed German cities after the war claiming thousands of civilian lives and destroying many important historical monuments and buildings in the process.

 

He sent in troops to break strikes. During the General Strike of 1926 he suggested using machine guns against strikers through a party bulletin . He supported Mussolini right up to Italy declaring war in 1940.

 

Hitler

Should I actually say anything?

 

Mussolini

ditto

 

Franco

ditto

 

In a world full of villains, he was the hero who adopted the principle :

 

Peace at home, peace in the world.

 

 

 

3.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:01 pm

Is this thread going to be re-titled "Battle of the Second World War Dictators/Leaders"

 

Hehehe Winston Churchill was a hero to people in the UK AT THE TIME, but of course people now have access to more information and can better judge him (good AND bad 

 

Unlike Turkey, we moved on and don´t hero-worship dead leaders like gods

4.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:49 pm

Let us keep our focus on where it should be; understanding people and their actions in the time frame they were active. There is nothing wrong in presenting Ataturk as a revolutionary leader who stood out in the crowd of dictators and Churchill is not the entire West. Should we repeat our love and dedication to the Western world whenever we post a message?

 

Ataturk was the hero of a war of independence. He was a dictator  at a time when a dictator was the only answer to the country´s profound problems like religious bigotry, backwardness and ignorance. 

 

Ataturk was the George Washington + Benjamin Franklin for Turkey. Don´t take my word for it. Read about him. It would be curious to know exactly what you are objecting to in him.

 

 

5.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:52 pm

 

 

 

Ataturk was the George Washington + Benjamin Franklin for Turkey. Don´t take my word for it. Read about him. It would be curious to know exactly what you are objecting to in him.

 

 I dont object to him!! Why would you think that? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

And.. dont patronize me Vineyards - of course I have read about Ataturk!!!  He was a great leader.  Now he is dead.  Keep him as your hero, but don´t talk about him as if he is god.  This is all I said.

Anyway not in the mood to argue with you today

May re-visit this another time!

6.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:55 pm

Aenigma, I did not claim he is God did I? So what was my mistake?

7.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:56 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Aenigma, I did not claim he is God did I? So what was my mistake?

 

 My sentence was more directed to Kemalists than to YOU personally

 

8.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 12:58 pm

I think I am going to send you yet another vile PM

9.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:07 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

I think I am going to send you yet another vile PM

 

 Have mercy!

 

OK OK OK  Ataturk IS A GOD

10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:08 pm

----

11.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:12 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

I think, you HAVE missed the ´emphasis  of the article´ tiny bit by your sudden and unnecessary comparisions of Ataturk with other leaders, Vineyards.

 

 Good morning H -did you sleep well?{#lang_emotions_owned}

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:15 pm


---

13.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:20 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

I think, you HAVE missed the ´emphasis  of the article´ IN AN EPIC SCALE with this post..

 

 lol lol lol

14.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:23 pm

Try a little politeness thehandsome.  Let people decide what is necessary and what is not. Everyone has a way of expressing himself/herself. 

 

What was the punchline of your post? Wasn´t it the part stated in quotation marks through the end of it?

 

"Loving people when you have no means of understanding them is very stupid."

 

Take that post as an answer to that remark. I know what I know about Ataturk and it is enough for me to like him.

15.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:27 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Try a little politeness thehandsome.  Let people decide what is necessary and what is not. Everyone has a way of expressing himself/herself. 

 

 Shhh he is a bit hormonal at the moment VY

 

Still waiting for your PM.....

16.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:28 pm

It was a joke

17.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:28 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

It was a joke

 

 So was mine

18.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:29 pm

I have stopped joking right now

19.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:35 pm


----

20.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 07 Nov 2008 Fri 01:36 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

I have stopped joking right now

 

 Thanks for letting me know - sometimes it is hard to tell lol

21.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 Nov 2008 Sun 09:41 pm

deleted

22.       catwoman
8933 posts
 16 Nov 2008 Sun 10:05 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

well..what is wrong with drinking,smoking and being fond of women anyway?

 

depends how you put it... this is a rather mild version

23.       vineyards
1954 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 01:30 am

Well, as far as I know Ataturk liked drinking, smoking and women too. Rumour has it that women loved him even more. He was a hot commodity for everyone. There is nothing wrong about this.

 

It is a pity though, he should have smoked and drunk less. I can´t comment on his affairs with women as this part belongs to his private life. True when we browse historical documents we  come accross with stories about say how small Napoleon was in certain regards and with make-believe psychological analyses of his deeds based on this and similar facts. If you ask me this is not something that should concern historians. Nonetheless, it is evident that some historians work like paparazzis.

24.       armegon
1872 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:13 am

I havent watched the film as i am abroad, but i have received several e-mails regarding this film. All the e-mails nearly says the same that this film is a part of a propogand of Atatürk trying to show him alcoholic, a man with psychological disorder, ill-tempered, a coward dictator who was trying to revenge of Salonica instead of wellfare of the Turkish nation. And the excuse is that film was trying to show the human Atatürk, also their claim is that Atatürk is idolized like God same like the claim of Islamists.

 

These reminds me the expressions of imperialists about Atatürk and the comments of racist Armenians and also this forum . If the film is like that, surely needs to be criticized. Btw i was watching Dündar on tv laterly trying to reply the criticims, he was very positive and flattering on tv. Whats the issue? "Turks need a "fairy tale about Atatürk" so he has shown like a superman, but we showed the human Atatürk". Thats simply absurd,  Is Turkish Republic a fairy tale? Ohh we did not know he was a human, thank all, they reminded and educated us. I always wonder how Atatürk done all that things if he was human, i was thinking he was from another galaxy . Anyway i havent seen anyone worshipping Atatürk in all my life unfortunately but seen people trying to use him. It is very-well known that he was smoking, drinking, irreligious even a fan of Fenerbahçe and that was not hurting anyone except bigots, but the problem is now; someones trying to represent these things hurtful as a part of propogand. Besides whats the aim of criticising his private life? He had died, let people talk about what he left behind instead. But of course these are not related things that they dislike about Atatürk and no wonder some people very well know what are those, and why they dislike Atatürk ...

 

Lastly shame on sneaky people who tries to commemorate Atatürk on 10 November or 29 October with his drinkings, smokings instead of his leadership, his revolutions...

25.       armegon
1872 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 03:24 am

thehandsom, i began to think you have some problems of remembering, i maybe try to describe these tens of times here. Remember, i put emphasis on target is Atatürk nationalism, army, Republic etc here, lit some light? btw as i said i havent watched the movie yet, so i criticized it supposing how i described. Anything wrong? It seems you are disturbed. A movie cannot be criticized? Saying this is a propogand video makes me paranoid?? Isnt it a propogand video? Actually nearly all movies carry a message.

 

How many people worship him as a God?Where is your evidence or source?Give me some examples of people who is worshipping Atatürk? You can suspect whatever you want, i have also many suspects for you that i cleared before .

 

I think the attributes "worshipping to Atatürk" & "Atatürk as God" are the ones people like you use many times to accuse people and the ones who tries to humiliate Atatürk. There is respect for Atatürk of course and thats the problem of that ones including you .

26.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 06:33 am

 

 

27.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 12:19 pm

deleted

 

 

 

28.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 01:29 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

I have never seen anyone worshipping Ataturk as god before, but I know there are many people worshipping soros as god, and Im seriously suspecting that you are one of them.

 

 opppa! soros? oppa oppa! why do people like you hate soros?

i personally was many times cursed for being pro-soros agent. lol although i never had any relation to his activities.

whenever i discuss with nationalists they jump out with soros, and curse me so hard.

i know, they hate soros for bringing education and light into dark minds of sheep.

29.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 01:32 pm

Ataturk is God of Turkey. turks worship ataturk. even his name Father of turks stands for it no matter how much you deny your cult.

sorry, have to say that.

30.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 01:56 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

Ataturk is God of Turkey. turks worship ataturk. even his name Father of turks stands for it no matter how much you deny your cult.

sorry, have to say that.

 

Right. But you don´t need to be sorry. That´s OK. That´s the way it is. And we are not sorry for it.

31.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:00 pm

 

Quoting si++

Right. But you don´t need to be sorry. That´s OK. That´s the way it is. And we are not sorry for it.

 

 thank you for admitting it.

32.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:05 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

thank you for admitting it.

 

So what? You have a problem with it?

33.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:08 pm

 

Quoting si++

So what? You have a problem with it?

 

 no, so far it is your problem. it is you who are brainwashed, not me. lol

 

34.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:11 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

no, so far it is your problem. it is you who are brainwashed, not me. lol

 

I don´t see any problem. But I have a feeling that you do.

35.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:13 pm

deleted

36.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:19 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Of course I do.. That´s your problem then.

How come you describe Ataturk as God-dogma?

Ataturk himself fought againts dogmas.

By labeling him that way is betraying Ataturk and ´what he tried to create in Turkey´.

 

 

37.       CANLI
5084 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:39 pm

Please,the debat here is about exchanging political points of view

Any personal hints/attacks/judgements is not welcome,and may cause to delete commenst or end the debat.

So can we stay on a level of the logical opinions exchange ?

38.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:42 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

Please,the debat here is about exchanging political points of view

Any personal hints/attacks/judgements is not welcome,and may cause to delete commenst or end the debat.

So can we stay on a level of the logical opinions exchange ?

 

 shhhhh! the mod is after femme! lol

39.       CANLI
5084 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:47 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 The idea from debating is exchanging point of views/opinions,not fighting/attacking between each others,those have no place here im afraid.

40.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:50 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 The idea from debating is exchanging point of views/opinions,not fighting/attacking between each others,those have no place here im afraid.

 

 then you should be fair and delete other comments.

but  i know you are far away from being fair, im afraid.

41.       CANLI
5084 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 02:57 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 then you should be fair and delete other comments.

but  i know you are far away from being fair, im afraid.

 

 And i havent either deleted your comments ´other comment i mean´

Mmm seems you know me very well lol

 PS: i did,just for you dear femmeous

 

Now,let´s all keep it to the topic please.

42.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 04:13 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

Now,let´s all keep it to the topic please.

 

 OK. Gives me a chance to tell one of my favourite W. Churchill stories.

 

What is all that rot quoted saying that we wouldn´t like a film that showed Churchill as a drinker?

 

We (here I dare to speak for all my fellow British people - great generalisation I know) all know he was a drinker. No one ever hides it.  While he was prime-minister stories about it were well known.

 

One night Churchill was at a party and a bit drunk. One lady told him off for it.

"Sir" she said in a disgusted voice. "You´re drunk!"

"Yes madam" he agreed. "And you are ugly. But the difference between us is that I shall be sober in the morning."

 

 

43.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 04:29 pm

 

Quoting MarioninTurkey

 OK. Gives me a chance to tell one of my favourite W. Churchill stories.

 

What is all that rot quoted saying that we wouldn´t like a film that showed Churchill as a drinker?

 

We (here I dare to speak for all my fellow British people - great generalisation I know) all know he was a drinker. No one ever hides it.  While he was prime-minister stories about it were well known.

 

One night Churchill was at a party and a bit drunk. One lady told him off for it.

"Sir" she said in a disgusted voice. "You´re drunk!"

"Yes madam" he agreed. "And you are ugly. But the difference between us is that I shall be sober in the morning."

 

44.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 17 Nov 2008 Mon 10:55 pm

I think seeing Ataturk as a human is far more endearing than seeing him as a "God-like" figure with no faults or shortcomings.  He was a great leader...but human just the same.  If he liked to drink or smoke, it in no way diminishes his work.   

45.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 03:22 am

deleted

46.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 03:36 am

 

Quoting thehandsom



And if you have another word for ´paranoia´ in this context, please bring it on.
But If you don´t, leave the ´usage of paranoia in the political context´ to the person who uses it.
I dont think the usage of paranoia in politics is an insult to anybody in any culture!!

 

 handsom,i believe we have been through this enough today,and STÝLL you insist to make it an issue and further more taking into forum !

Ok,what do you seek from that ?

Make a fight? Exchange attacks ?!

Truly,i dont understand you !

Ok,here is another one ,if thats satisfy you

 

paranoia

/parrnoy/

  • noun 1 a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance. 2 unjustified suspicion and mistrust of others.

 

Oxford Dictionary

 

And guess what,some people,in some culture STÝLL dont like be called paranoied in discussing political issues

And they are from Earth,not Mars if i may add !

 

Now,can we keep to the topic,and any personal issue you can take it to PM´s ?

Either to other mods/admins if you wish,or to the member in question?

But take it off the forum pls!

47.       catwoman
8933 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 03:57 am

I think that thehandsom could have been a little bit more polite while expressing his point that some people see too much in certain things, and/or over-react to them. Really, I think there were many ways in which he could have said the same thing, there´s no use arguing that he had no choice and his post was deleted unfairly. He also had a chance to modify his post and express himself in a less flammable way, but he chose not to.

48.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 04:27 am

deleted

49.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 04:50 am

---

50.       catwoman
8933 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 05:10 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

I dont remember the exact wording but I think I did say that ´your ideas are paranoid ideas´ or similar.

 

you said this:

 

"Ha ha..

You really are paranoid about this propaganda thing..lol"

 

Even if I agree with you that this is not very insulting, for the purpose of having a civilized conversation, when the person you are talking with finds this insulting, you should avoid saying this...

51.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 05:29 am

deleted

52.       catwoman
8933 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 06:39 am

Personally I agree with you, but it did cause problems.

53.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 10:39 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

I am not sure we have been through actually..

Because, it was a pm from you asking me to modify my post related to using words ´paranoid´ in that context and me replying back and saying ´I did not think it was insulting´ and then you deleting my post by using your mod powers.

I would not call it ´been through´!

Well. of course you have the powers to delete any post you dont agree and you exercised it..

All I am saying here was ´I do not agree with you´

That is all..

And you have power to delete this one too..

Having same argument as we are having here,and not adding anything more to it is proven that we already have been through it,as i see you havent add anything new!

Still you chose to bring it to forum to get other member´s attention and make it a flammable issue for some reason.

Ýf it was for something else,you could have pm´ed other mods or admins about,but you didnt!

Ok,we will go through it here as you liked !

As same as i pm´ed you asked you to modify your post,i also asked same from the other member,and he did modify his post.

He could also made long arguments that there is nothing wrong about saying that you have ´mental disorder´ and it is also a mental condition as same as paranoia!

But he didnt!

Actually,i dont delete posts that i dont agree with ,i dont agree with many posts here at TLC so i think it is not a valid claim

But i do delete troubled posts after pm´ing the members asking them to modify them

As i did with you,and asked you to modify your post by using another word that wont make troubles and which wont affect anything in your post contents except not insulting the member in question.

But you refused,and in that case,i had no choice other than to delete your post!

 

Quoting thehandsom

And liking  or not liking is a different thing than insulting. (There have been many many words I dislike but in the end this  is a forum )

If you are taking peoples likes or dislikes into consideration and then deleting the posts because ´someone did not like it´ I have nothing to add really!!

Before/within the hour that we spent it argue this issue,i pm´ed other people,mods and others,asking them about their opinion of using the word paranoid between 2 persons dont agree much with each other and if they can take it as an insult or not

And guess what ? They said they wouldnt consider it a nice word,and can be taken as an insult!

And the member in question took it as insult too and complained about it!

So its not about what likes or dislikes here as you see.

Ýts about having a peaceful place for good debats not fights!

 

And i REFUSE the hints coming from your sentence above,im NOT a toy in people´s hand here handsom!

And STOP making it personal,because you KNOW very well it is NOT!

Ýf i do something you agree with then im blessed by your aproval,and if i do something you dont agree with,then im a target to your attacks?!

Ýt doesnt work this way handsom,not with me im afraid!

 

 

54.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 10:45 am

Now that we bring it to the open as you wished,further posts about this will be deleted

And if you have any problem you can take it to admins,mods if you like via pm´s

Forum Rules no.11

 

Again,let´s keep it to the topic!

55.       femmeous
2642 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:29 am

 

Quoting CANLI

Now that we bring it to the open as you wished,further posts about this will be deleted

And if you have any problem you can take it to admins,mods if you like via pm´s

Forum Rules no.11

 

Again,let´s keep it to the topic!

 

 offffff you are tiring with your police regime. you probably know all the rules by heart and sing them every morning along adhan putting your hand on your heart. and swear to delete more and more posts by each day.

56.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:34 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

Mustafa the movie divides Turkey with a portrait of the ´real´ Ataturk

 

National hero depictedas solitary hard drinker by documentary-makerthe article:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/....-of-the-real-ataturk-998232.html

 

 

57.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:50 am

deleted

58.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:53 am

Ýf its not against the forum rules,of course i wont delete them

Ým sure you know how to find the forum rules so i wont provide a link.

59.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:59 am

deleted

60.       ciko
784 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 11:59 am

what i find interesting is that mods who generally criticise Turkey for not having enough freedom of speech are mostly being like governer of Turkey but they dont realise it." Dont do this, Dont do that, it is against rules."... i am surprised that TLC still does not have a law like "301" in Turkey

61.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 12:12 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Your interpretation of rules regarding what is rude what is not obviously changing according to your mood as I said earlier there have been hundreds of examples which could be considered seriously rude but you decided not to delete them and I dont want to go and search them for you..

And, guess what? you delete whatever you like..

 

 Ãf there are posts that considered rude and i saw and chose not to delete them,it mostly be either upon the request of the members involving in such matters,or the other member has already replied and the story ends

Which is not the case here !

 

And pls,could you explain how did i interpret this accourding to my mood ?

 

11. If you don´t agree with a moderator send a Private Message to the moderator or to one of the administrators instead of posting in the forum. Such posts may be deleted

 

Keep talking about that issue in public is nonsense,the forum is not made for us to fight there,we can continue via pm´s if you wish

But not here!

 

62.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 12:26 pm

deleted

63.       CANLI
5084 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 12:35 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

I think you have made this flammable by pming me about my post almost a day later

It was written by me and replied by the other user..It was done and dusted..I moved on and others involved moved on (I think)

And in your pm to me, you did not mention anything about the complaints.

I still believe my wording was rude ACCORDING TO YOU ONLY..

because I ( personally and others) have used much  ruder words in other posts but you did not touch them..

 

 Reread your above post and find the contradiction between what YOU are saying.

And ,i dont HAVE to mention anything to you about any complaints its something concern the other member.

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

I still believe my wording was rude ACCORDING TO YOU ONLY..

 

Coming THÝS far,i have nothing more to say to you,and further posts about this will be deleted !

64.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 12:36 pm

--

65.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 12:51 pm

I have deleted all my posts in this topic..

I hope it will make you pleased CANLI

Well done..{#lang_emotions_flowers}

66.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 04:38 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

I have deleted all my posts in this topic..

I hope it will make you pleased CANLI

Well done..{#lang_emotions_flowers}

 

 Sad day on TC! 

67.       teaschip
3870 posts
 18 Nov 2008 Tue 09:28 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I think seeing Ataturk as a human is far more endearing than seeing him as a "God-like" figure with no faults or shortcomings.  He was a great leader...but human just the same.  If he liked to drink or smoke, it in no way diminishes his work.   

 

 Unless of course he was an alcoholic..not too many of them I know make good sound decisions.{#lang_emotions_confused}

68.       armegon
1872 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 02:44 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 when the person you are talking with finds this insulting, you should avoid saying this...

 

 

To clarify the trouble here, let me explain the situation, firstly thehandsom called me paranoid and as a reply to this i said "i began to think you have mental disorder". Later i realized only my post was deleted. And of course objection from me, my point is; if my post seen insulting so as the thehandsom´s post, actually if my post was not deleted or requested to be modified, then i have no problem with his post since both of our posts in same category...

69.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 05:29 am

I am thinking of making a modification to the forum rules and adding that "posts with negative remarks about another person´s character that might be a cause of resentment and fight are subject to deletion by moderators".

I think that this could solve some of our problems that currently do not have a clear solution. In the above problem for example, from a western point of view, thehandsom´s comment was not insulting, although armegon´s comment was. That is the western understanding of insults though and our rules currently (I think) do have a western bias. Therefore, banning all negative remarks about the character of another person could potentially prevent problems in which comments were made and one side doesn´t think they were insulting, but another side does. Simply no negative, smearing comments about personality and character should be allowed.

 

What do people think about it?

70.       bydand
755 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:43 am

 

Quoting catwoman

I am thinking of making a modification to the forum rules and adding that "posts with negative remarks about another person´s character that might be a cause of resentment and fight are subject to deletion by moderators".

I think that this could solve some of our problems that currently do not have a clear solution. In the above problem for example, from a western point of view, thehandsom´s comment was not insulting, although armegon´s comment was. That is the western understanding of insults though and our rules currently (I think) do have a western bias. Therefore, banning all negative remarks about the character of another person could potentially prevent problems in which comments were made and one side doesn´t think they were insulting, but another side does. Simply no negative, smearing comments about personality and character should be allowed.

 

What do people think about it?

 Paranoia is a mental illness therefore thehandsom´s and armegon´s words were equally insulting.  

71.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:54 am

 

Quoting bydand

 Paranoia is a mental illness therefore thehandsom´s and armegon´s words were equally insulting.  

 

But in this context it simply implied that he´s oversuspicious about that, not that he´s metally challenged!

72.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:52 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

But in this context it simply implied that he´s oversuspicious about that, not that he´s metally challenged!

 

 What?  - like in need of iron supplements?

73.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:58 am

 

Quoting bydand

 Paranoia is a mental illness therefore thehandsom´s and armegon´s words were equally insulting.  

 

This whole thing is reminding me of some months ago when someone got insulted by being referred to as being ´nuts´.  The paranoia here is people seeing insults wherever they look.  Personally, I think they are all crazy. {#lang_emotions_bigsmile}

74.       teaschip
3870 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 06:31 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

This whole thing is reminding me of some months ago when someone got insulted by being referred to as being ´nuts´.  The paranoia here is people seeing insults wherever they look.  Personally, I think they are all crazy. {#lang_emotions_bigsmile}

 

 I have been insulted, but I have never complained.  People are just way to sensitive.  How can you say one person´s message is an insult but not the others.  Really, how do you determine this?  If a complaint is made to a mod and they don´t feel it quantifies as an insult, wouldn´t the person who complained in the first place feel even more insulted?  Do you feel compelled to act on every complaint?  How do you make this determination?  What if I feel insulted right now by coming up with another rule for those who do not insult?  Ok......I´m one of those "nuts" crazy people here, forget it....{#lang_emotions_you_crazy}{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

75.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 06:40 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 I have been insulted, but I have never complained.  People are just way to sensitive.  How can you say one person´s message is an insult but not the others.  Really, how do you determine this?  If a complaint is made to a mod and they don´t feel it quantifies as an insult, wouldn´t the person who complained in the first place feel even more insulted?  Do you feel compelled to act on every complaint?  How do you make this determination?  What if I feel insulted right now by coming up with another rule for those who do not insult?  Ok......I´m one of those "nuts" crazy people here, forget it....{#lang_emotions_you_crazy}{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

Well, I for one am a fairly paranoid person.  I would never take this as an insult.  It´s just my nature not to trust people (they are ALWAY after my lucky charms!!).  As far as being called nuts.....I have been called much worse!  I guess being American makes you very thick skinned.  My nationality is routinely insulted as well as my religion and my politics!  OH WELL!! I guess I do have reason to be PARANOID!!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

76.       femmeous
2642 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 06:46 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 I have been insulted, but I have never complained.  People are just way to sensitive.  How can you say one person´s message is an insult but not the others.  Really, how do you determine this?  If a complaint is made to a mod and they don´t feel it quantifies as an insult, wouldn´t the person who complained in the first place feel even more insulted?  Do you feel compelled to act on every complaint?  How do you make this determination?  What if I feel insulted right now by coming up with another rule for those who do not insult?  Ok......I´m one of those "nuts" crazy people here, forget it....{#lang_emotions_you_crazy}{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 you dont understand it, tea (well, like many bed amerikans). didnt you read cedars post about middle east? there are cultures and nations that are very sensitive.

cedars says middle east is very delicate. you have to be very careful, 9 out of 10 of your words can be insulting to the majority of easterners. you cant say this or you cant say that.

thats why CANLI keeps deleting posts addressed to easterners in order to protect their delicate feelings.

 

77.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 06:49 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 What?  - like in need of iron supplements?

 

lol and apparently I´m keyboard-challenged lol

78.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 08:28 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

I am thinking of making a modification to the forum rules and adding that "posts with negative remarks about another person´s character that might be a cause of resentment and fight are subject to deletion by moderators".

I think that this could solve some of our problems that currently do not have a clear solution. In the above problem for example, from a western point of view, thehandsom´s comment was not insulting, although armegon´s comment was. That is the western understanding of insults though and our rules currently (I think) do have a western bias. Therefore, banning all negative remarks about the character of another person could potentially prevent problems in which comments were made and one side doesn´t think they were insulting, but another side does. Simply no negative, smearing comments about personality and character should be allowed.

 

What do people think about it?

 

 There is no telling what is insulting to one person or another.  I think this is going a bit far.  Why can´t we just be grown ups?  Many things are said with no intent to insult.  Maybe we can just delete posts with "harmful intent"?  {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}  I think handsom´s comment about paranoia was somewhat innocent.  Perhaps Canli could have just accepted that it wasn´t a personal insult to her or any other easterner and handsom could have gracefully apologized for any "perceived" wrong doing?  Do we need to start having tribunals to determine what is insulting and what is not?  {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

79.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 08:50 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I guess being American makes you very thick skinned.  My nationality is routinely insulted as well as my religion and my politics!  OH WELL!! I guess I do have reason to be PARANOID!!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

And I guess being British makes you thick skinned as well.  This is the way we are.  Maybe instead of us having to think all the time that ´certain people´ might be insulted by our (to us) fairly innocuous comments, those people should learn to realise that from us these comments don´t have the same offensive value they seem determined to perceive and learn to stop taking so much offence to them.  Why do we have to change the way we are used to speaking?  We aren´t in an Eastern country tempering our language/speech for the sake of politeness - we are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language.  Well maybe we Brits and Americans should just carry on insulting each other in our normal friendly way and let the rest of them sit back in horror!

80.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:04 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

And I guess being British makes you thick skinned as well.... This is the way we are.   We aren´t in an Eastern country tempering our language/speech for the sake of politeness - we are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language.  Well maybe we Brits and Americans should just carry on insulting each other in our normal friendly way and let the rest of them sit back in horror!

 

Agreeing with you too much today Beddy!

Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I find there is more humour and creativity in a cleverly worded insult, than in all the compliments in the world!  Also, as you implied earlier, there is some truth in the saying "you only tease the ones you love"

 

However, if you personaly insult during a serious argument, it is actually a sign of weakness.  It shows you have run out of facts for your debate, and have had to resort to personal insult as your only means of defence.  There are some great examples of this in this forum  

81.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:04 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

And I guess being British makes you thick skinned as well.  This is the way we are.  Maybe instead of us having to think all the time that ´certain people´ might be insulted by our (to us) fairly innocuous comments, those people should learn to realise that from us these comments don´t have the same offensive value they seem determined to perceive and learn to stop taking so much offence to them.  Why do we have to change the way we are used to speaking?  We aren´t in an Eastern country tempering our language/speech for the sake of politeness - we are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language.  Well maybe we Brits and Americans should just carry on insulting each other in our normal friendly way and let the rest of them sit back in horror!

 

 Certain people ?!!!hmmmmm

Ok,and why do WE have to take your comments as fairly innocent comments ´to you´ and not understand it as offensive commenst ´to us´ ?

Why dont you learn to be sensetive ´as you call us´ as we are´?

Why do we have to change the way we think?

What would make your ways are the right ways and not ours?

We are not in an Western country so we have to adapt to how you think/behave/believe.

We are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language

Foreigners,dont have to be just Brits and Americans you know,there are other people too in the universe.

Beside who teach you/us the Turkish language here,are Turks too.

 

See,that wont take us anywhere will it ?!

82.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:06 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

Agreeing with you too much today Beddy!

Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I find there is more humour in a cleverly worded insult, than in all the compliments in the world!  Also, as you implied earlier, there is some truth in the saying "you only tease the ones you love"

 

However, if you personaly insult during a serious argument, it is actually a sign of weakness.  It shows you have run out of facts for your debate, and have had to resort to personal insult as your only means of defence.  There are some great examples of this in this forum  

 

 {#lang_emotions_head_bang}  - you did it again!!!!

83.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:07 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Certain people ?!!!hmmmmm

Ok,and why do WE have to take your comments as fairly innocent comments ´to you´ and not understand it as offensive commenst ´to us´ ?

Why dont you learn to be sensetive ´as you call us´ as we are´?

Why do we have to change the way we think?

What would make your ways are the right ways and not ours?

We are not in an Western country so we have to adapt to how you think/behave/believe.

We are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language

Foreigners,dont have to be just Brits and Americans you know,there are other people too in the universe.

And who teach you/us the Turkish language,are Turks too.

 

See,that wont take us anywhere will it ?!

 

 Basically because you are the ones moaning about it all the time.

84.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:08 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 {#lang_emotions_head_bang}  - you did it again!!!!

 

 Did what?

And please don´t quote me until I have finished editing and adding to my posts!

85.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:08 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 There is no telling what is insulting to one person or another.  I think this is going a bit far.  Why can´t we just be grown ups?  Many things are said with no intent to insult.  Maybe we can just delete posts with "harmful intent"?  {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}  I think handsom´s comment about paranoia was somewhat innocent.  Perhaps Canli could have just accepted that it wasn´t a personal insult to her or any other easterner and handsom could have gracefully apologized for any "perceived" wrong doing?  Do we need to start having tribunals to determine what is insulting and what is not?  {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 Just a small note,i wasnt involve personally in that matter as a part.

handsom nor armegon did not adress any insult to me.

86.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:09 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 Basically because you are the ones moaning about it all the time.

 

 Shouldn´t you mods discuss differing issues you have with moderating in some kind of private forum?

87.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:10 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Just a small note,i wasnt involve personally in that matter as a part.

handsom nor armegon did not adress any insult to me.

 

 However we have (hopefully temporarily) lost a valuable member of TC because of your rather over zealous deleting.  Personally I have lost a valuable favourite sparring partner

88.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:11 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Did what?

And please don´t quote me until I have finished editing and adding to my posts!

 

 OK - I fixed it

89.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:12 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Shouldn´t you mods discuss differing issues you have with moderating in some kind of private forum?

 

 Sorry - I forgot {#lang_emotions_shy}

90.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:14 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 Basically because you are the ones moaning about it all the time.

 

 Ohhh i see,so the one who dont like anything,should be neglected and you should act/do whatever you like the way you like without taking anyone/anything into consideration!

That is the solution?!

 

91.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:22 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Ohhh i see,so the one who dont like anything,should be neglected and you should act/do whatever you like the way you like without taking anyone/anything into consideration!

That is the solution?!

 

I´m a bit lost now {#lang_emotions_unsure} - all I can say is that if there is someone who ´doesn´t like anything´ (presumably about the site) then maybe they shouldn´t be here.  And I still don´t see why I should alter the way I speak (as an Englishwoman) to fit in with others - do people do that normally?  And, actually, I don´t think I have ever personally insulted anyone on this site intentionally or otherwise (except Aenigma and that´s only because I love her )

92.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:28 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 However we have (hopefully temporarily) lost a valuable member of TC because of your rather over zealous deleting.  Personally I have lost a valuable favourite sparring partner

 

 Lost handsom because of deleting his post ?! {#lang_emotions_wtf}

Well,i cant take everyone approval to delete his/her post before i do lol

Do you think they would approve ?! {#lang_emotions_unsure}

Beside,i think handsom mature enough more than that

93.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:30 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 Shouldn´t you mods discuss differing issues you have with moderating in some kind of private forum?

 

 Naaahhhh, we are taking it to the open tonight {#lang_emotions_razz},dont you prefer it more like this ?! lol

94.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:33 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Naaahhhh, we are taking it to the open tonight {#lang_emotions_razz},dont you prefer it more like this ?! lol

 

 

95.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:40 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

I´m a bit lost now {#lang_emotions_unsure} - all I can say is that if there is someone who ´doesn´t like anything´ (presumably about the site) then maybe they shouldn´t be here. 

 

 And that is meaning,we are adapting the Western´s ways here in the site,so the Easterns who dont like it,can leave ?!

 

Quoting lady in red

And I still don´t see why I should alter the way I speak (as an Englishwoman) to fit in with others - do people do that normally?  And, actually, I don´t think I have ever personally insulted anyone on this site intentionally or otherwise (except Aenigma and that´s only because I love her )

 

Surely when you are dealing with someone who is not from your country,nor from your people,nor understanding your habits,thinking...etc,you be alerted ?

And i also dont think I have ever personally insulted anyone on this site intentionally or otherwise and not Aenigma too even i do love her {#lang_emotions_razz} 

So that would make you a step head

Peace till we see how can we figure it out {#lang_emotions_confused} {#lang_emotions_flowers}

96.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:43 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 (except Aenigma and that´s only because I love her )

 

 

Quoting CANLI

and not Aenigma too even i do love her {#lang_emotions_razz} 

 

Hmmmm there seems to be a theme developing here!

Maybe...just maybe.... all these problems are because of the enormous amount of love everyone feels for me?

97.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:48 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

And that is meaning,we are adapting the Western´s ways here in the site,so the Easterns who dont like it,can leave ?!

 

Well erm, yeah. Because the/some Easterners think ´we´ from the West have to adapt their ways and if we don´t like that, we have to go. Isn´t it? Biblical said: An eye for an eye? 

98.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:52 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Well erm, yeah. Because the/some Easterners think ´we´ from the West have to adapt their ways and if we don´t like that, we have to go. Isn´t it? Biblical said: An eye for an eye? 

 

 I just assumed this was a website based in the West.  Not that anyone should be purposefully insulted, but basically, if it is based in the West, then it would be predominately based on Western thought....silly me!  I am making WILD ASSUMPTIONS AGAIN!

99.       teaschip
3870 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:54 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

And I guess being British makes you thick skinned as well.  This is the way we are.  Maybe instead of us having to think all the time that ´certain people´ might be insulted by our (to us) fairly innocuous comments, those people should learn to realise that from us these comments don´t have the same offensive value they seem determined to perceive and learn to stop taking so much offence to them.  Why do we have to change the way we are used to speaking?  We aren´t in an Eastern country tempering our language/speech for the sake of politeness - we are on a website basically set up to teach foreigners the Turkish language.  Well maybe we Brits and Americans should just carry on insulting each other in our normal friendly way and let the rest of them sit back in horror!

 

You are my favorite mod here.................finally logic.{#lang_emotions_flowers}

 

100.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:55 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Well erm, yeah. Because the/some Easterners think ´we´ from the West have to adapt their ways and if we don´t like that, we have to go. Isn´t it? Biblical said: An eye for an eye? 

 

 Well,no

Having some where in the middle is the way i see it

Neither Westerns nor easterns have to go any where,we should and have to work it out,how to fit in with our own ways together.

Or else it would be true,the world cant fit for us both,its either yours or ours ?!

101.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:55 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 I just assumed this was a website based in the West.  Not that anyone should be purposefully insulted, but basically, if it is based in the West, then it would be predominately based on Western thought....silly me!  I am making WILD ASSUMPTIONS AGAIN!

 

Please don´t do that Elisabeth - wild assumptions are not acceptable - please control your assumptions.  Thank you

102.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:56 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 I just assumed this was a website based in the West.  Not that anyone should be purposefully insulted, but basically, if it is based in the West, then it would be predominately based on Western thought....silly me!  I am making WILD ASSUMPTIONS AGAIN!

 

 Ã guess cat should be the one who answer this ,but that is not what i have been told,or understood from the purpose of the site when first joint in.

Ýf it is the case,would be better add ´easterns are not welcome´

103.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:57 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Please don´t do that Elisabeth - wild assumptions are not acceptable - please control your assumptions.  Thank you

 

lol lol lol lol lol lol

you are a killer LIR!

104.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 09:58 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Please don´t do that Elisabeth - wild assumptions are not acceptable - please control your assumptions.  Thank you

 

 You know what they say about assuming.....it makes an ASS out of U and ME!! {#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

105.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:03 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Well,no

Having some where in the middle is the way i see it

Neither Westerns nor easterns have to go any where,we should and have to work it out,how to fit in with our own ways together.

Or else it would be true,the world cant fit for us both,its either yours or ours ?!

 

Like LIR said before, I too don´t want to insult on purpose but I have my (Dutch) way of speech and I don´t intend to change that because some ´softy´ can´t handle it. It´s very good I guess many of those people don´t live here, they would feel insulted 25/7 (!!) by our directness.

106.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:05 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Ãf it is the case,would be better add ´easterns are not welcome´

 

A ridiculous statement. Assuming that a western based site has western ways of speech does not mean that easterners are not welcome. It only means that they might be surprised by manners they are not used to hear/see/read daily. 

107.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:06 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 I just assumed this was a website based in the West.  Not that anyone should be purposefully insulted, but basically, if it is based in the West, then it would be predominately based on Western thought....silly me!  I am making WILD ASSUMPTIONS AGAIN!

 

well, it is a website based in the west, but by it´s very nature we are a multicultural site. that means that both "easterners" and "westerners" should feel welcome here (I´m sorry about the western/eastern categorizations... it´s just used for the sake of simplicity here). all ideas can be freely expressed here, but personal attacks and personal labeling are outlawed here, so that there is space for exchanging ideas. as we see, sometimes words that for most westerners are completely innocent, can be taken as insulting for some other people, I think this is the east-west cultural barrier. that´s why, in a situation of a conflict, posts that do contain negative statements about character of another person will be subject to deletion. I hope that this will help us focus on ideas and not on childish insults and i hope that this will help us come closer. BOTH SIDES have to show some understanding and empathy and try to see through the words and get the meanings so that we can truly come closer together.

108.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:07 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

posts that do contain negative statements about character of another person will be subject to deletion.

 

 It will be? It´s not a question anymore but a stated rule?

109.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:09 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 It will be? It´s not a question anymore but a stated rule?

 

Yes, but only in a situation of conflict. Otherwise, only overt insults will be deleted.

110.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:13 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

A ridiculous statement. Assuming that a western based site has western ways of speech does not mean that easterners are not welcome. It only means that they might be surprised by manners they are not used to hear/see/read daily. 

 

 That is different

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 but basically, if it is based in the West, then it would be predominately based on Western thought....

 

That means will be monitored,ruled by Western´s thoughts,so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country,and we have to adapt to it rules,and at the end they will complain from us because we dont fit in !

So it is not a ridiculous statement.

111.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:14 pm

I have a request: I like to have a ´I feel insulted´ smiley. Than I/we can use that everytime someone calls ´us´ westerners ´bed´, ´evil´ or otherwise.

112.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:16 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

because we dont fit in !

 

Don´t fitting in has nothing to do with where someone comes from but it certainly has to do with the way of behaving.

113.       teaschip
3870 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:17 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

I have a request: I like to have a ´I feel insulted´ smiley. Than I/we can use that everytime someone calls ´us´ westerners ´bed´, ´evil´ or otherwise.

 

 But westerners can call other westerners bed and evil...Just not easterners...what a great idea..I like the icon thing.{#lang_emotions_alcoholics}

114.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:20 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 But westerners can call other westerners bed and evil...Just not easterners...what a great idea..I like the icon thing.{#lang_emotions_alcoholics}

 

 So I can say you are a bed, bed American without worrying that my post will be deleted? Pfff, that´s a relief!

115.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:20 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

I have a request: I like to have a ´I feel insulted´ smiley. Than I/we can use that everytime someone calls ´us´ westerners ´bed´, ´evil´ or otherwise.

 

I said that only personal insults are subject to deletion. not if you are insulted by some people´s opinions.

116.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:21 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

That means will be monitored,ruled by Western´s thoughts,so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country,and we have to adapt to it rules,and at the end they will complain from us because we dont fit in !

So it is not a ridiculous statement.

 

 As a matter of interest then, would you not adapt to the rules of a foreign country you lived in? Or have I misinterpreted what you are saying here?

117.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:21 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Don´t fitting in has nothing to do with where someone comes from but it certainly has to do with the way of behaving.

 

 Again,what would makes us behave according to the way you think ?!

118.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:24 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 As a matter of interest then, would you not adapt to the rules of a foreign country you lived in? Or have I misinterpreted what you are saying here?

 

 Ã would have to adapt to the rules of of a foreign country i live in ,but here is not foreign country .

119.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:26 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

I said that only personal insults are subject to deletion. not if you are insulted by some people´s opinions.

 

 Ah yes, so if user X tells me I am ´bed´ it is a personal insult but if that same person says all westerners/the west are ´bed´ it is just an opinion? That makes really sense... not.

120.       femmeous
2642 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:31 pm

easterners have every right in the west, stating that they suffer in the west is very ridiculous. just simply nobody holds them in there.

they enjoy the tolerance, freedom, they can freely practise their religoins and even propagate it, they can practice their customs including honor killings etc etc. but at the end i think they dont understand what freedom is.

and it is not so in the east (esp in middle east), when westerners are just guests (they dont migrate to the east) they have to adjust themselves to the eastern customs in order not to offend the east.

 

perhaps its Canlis mentality that doesnt allow free thinking, doesnt understand what it means to freely express yourslef without a fear of being silenced. however, it doesnt bother her when the easterners often and eagerly attack the west.

 

i love speaking straightforward and i hate being limitted. for me not being allowed to express equals to be forced to wear a burka.

 

shame this site shares a la turkish - egyptian style of free speech.

121.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:36 pm

 

That means will be monitored,ruled by Western´s thoughts,so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country

Quoting CANLI

 Ã would have to adapt to the rules of of a foreign country i live in ,but here is not foreign country .

 

 But you said: ´so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country´

122.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:38 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Again,what would makes us behave according to the way you think ?!

 

Don´t behave like a westerner, you can´t. But don´t expect westerners with the style of speech femme told so well about - post above - to spare ´fragile´ spirits.

123.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:41 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

That means will be monitored,ruled by Western´s thoughts,so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country

 

 But you said: ´so it will be like us Easterns living in a foreigner country´

 

 Yes,remember many of the debats we had here and you were complaining from Easterns living in foreigner countries

Ý meant like that.

124.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:42 pm

Will repeat my question to Canli.  If you believe all you say, why did you not ask for apologies from the "eastern" members who called theHandsom "gay" during arguments (on many occasions)

125.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:49 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

Will repeat my question to Canli.  If you believe all you say, why did you not ask for apologies from the "eastern" members who called theHandsom "gay" during arguments (on many occasions)

 

 Ã havent seen any post that they have called handsom gay in any argument,beside,when handsom get insulted by any,he pm me to delete the post and i check it and delete it,and it was done by easterns too

So i think you cant make it as taking sides here and judging if it was Western i delete if not,i dont!

 

126.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:49 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Don´t behave like a westerner, you can´t. But don´t expect westerners with the style of speech femme told so well about - post above - to spare ´fragile´ spirits.

 

what is the problem here Trudy? this is about personal insults, for people who are not civilized enough to keep them away. and yes, there is a barrier between east and west, and some people are more sensitive. if we simply keep all personal comments away, we will be able to actually discuss ideas, which is what our goal is anyway. yes, some spirits may be fragile, it is none of our business to change who they are as people. at the same time we will be able to preserve freedom of speech of ideas.

127.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:50 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Ã havent seen any post that they call handsom gay in any argument,beside,when handsom get insulted by any,he pm me to delete the post and i check it and delete it,and it was done by easterns too

So i think you cant make it as taking sides here and judging if it was Western i delete if not,i dont!

 

 OMG!!!!!

So..... an insult is ONLY an insult if a person is sensitive enough to take it as such?  I would imagine you will receive a lot of PMs from "eastern" members then....

128.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:51 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Ã havent seen any post that they call handsom gay in any argument,beside,when handsom get insulted by any,he pm me to delete the post and i check it and delete it,and it was done by easterns too

So i think you cant make it as taking sides here and judging if it was Western i delete if not,i dont!

 

I agree with Canli. if he doesn´t feel offended, then there´s no offense! if he feels offended, he should say so.

129.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:52 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 OMG!!!!!

So..... an insult is ONLY an insult if a person is sensitive enough to take it as such?  I would imagine you will receive a lot of PMs from "eastern" members then....

 

isn´t that common knowledge? some insults are insults when someone is sensitive enough. some insults are insults no matter what...

130.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:53 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 OMG!!!!!

So..... an insult is ONLY an insult if a person is sensitive enough to take it as such?  I would imagine you will receive a lot of PMs from "eastern" members then....

 

 Ok here it is...

Ýs it insult to be called gay or not ?!

Ý dont know

For me...yes it is

For you ?!

131.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:53 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Yes,remember many of the debats we had here and you were complaining from Easterns living in foreigner countries

Ý meant like that.

 

 I don´t think I ever debated with you about Easterners living in foreign countries Canli

132.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:53 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

I agree with Canli. if he doesn´t feel offended, then there´s no offense! if he feels offended, he should say so.

 

 This is a strange rule.  Those who have thick skins and are mature enough not to take "cyber" insults personally may have rocks thrown at them, while the more sensitive souls will be treated with kid gloves.

 

Perhaps we should carry colour coded avators to warn people not to insult sensitive ones?

133.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:53 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

what is the problem here Trudy? this is about personal insults, for people who are not civilized enough to keep them away. and yes, there is a barrier between east and west, and some people are more sensitive. if we simply keep all personal comments away, we will be able to actually discuss ideas, which is what our goal is anyway. yes, some spirits may be fragile, it is none of our business to change who they are as people. at the same time we will be able to preserve freedom of speech of ideas.

 

 Simple advise CW, read your own posts back please. Talking about leaving personal comments away is not an item you should be ambassador of.....

134.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:54 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 Simple advise CW, read your own posts back please. Talking about leaving personal comments away is not an item you should be ambassador of.....

 

 + 100000000000 I am afraid.

135.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:54 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 Ah yes, so if user X tells me I am ´bed´ it is a personal insult but if that same person says all westerners/the west are ´bed´ it is just an opinion? That makes really sense... not.

 

if there is an insulting word used to describe all westerners/easterners... etc, that qualifies as an overt insult/slur... etc. and it may/will be deleted.

136.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:56 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Ok here it is...

Ýs it insult to be called gay or not ?!

Ý dont know

For me...yes it is

For you ?!

 

Nope, not to me. If you think it´s an insult to be called that way, you are insulting millions of gay people around the world by thinking their way of life is bad, evil, sinful or whatever.

137.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:56 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 Simple advise CW, read your own posts back please. Talking about leaving personal comments away is not an item you should be ambassador of.....

 

but I am, ok? haha, whether you like it or not.

138.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:56 pm

This is very subjective.  I foresee further disagreements between moderators and further objections.

 

Sensitive souls will continue to post recipes and all will be well....and extremely dull

139.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:56 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 This is a strange rule.  Those who have thick skins and are mature enough not to take "cyber" insults personally may have rocks thrown at them, while the more sensitive souls will be treated with kid gloves.

 

Perhaps we should carry colour coded avators to warn people not to insult sensitive ones?

 

 Great idea! Red ones, to warn maybe?

140.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:57 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 Great idea! Red ones, to warn maybe?

 

 I am code black.  You may insult me as much as you want (unless you are catwoman, because that would be hypocritical)

141.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:58 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 This is a strange rule.  Those who have thick skins and are mature enough not to take "cyber" insults personally may have rocks thrown at them, while the more sensitive souls will be treated with kid gloves.

 

Perhaps we should carry colour coded avators to warn people not to insult sensitive ones?

 

just don´t use personal negative qualifiers about a person and you´ll be fine. that is a rule you would use anywhere when you are talking with people you don´t know. simply discuss ideas.

142.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:59 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

but I am, ok? haha, whether you like it or not.

 

Well, if you were Dutch I would say I word that fits this but I don´t want to damage or hurt your fragile soul so I don´t.

143.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:59 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 I am code black.  You may insult me as much as you want (unless you are catwoman, because that would be hypocritical)

 

yeah right, the number of times you left is a good proof that you are not as tough as you say you are.

144.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 10:59 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

I agree with Canli. if he doesn´t feel offended, then there´s no offense! if he feels offended, he should say so.

 

 Going back to the original problem then - from what I can gather it seems that neither Armegon nor thehandsom were offended by being called respectively ´paranoid´ and having a mental disorder´.  It was only when a mod deleted Armegon´s post that all this started - and look where its got us {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

145.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:00 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 I am code black.  You may insult me as much as you want (unless you are catwoman, because that would be hypocritical)

 

 Can I call you a bed Brit without fear?

146.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:00 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Well, if you were Dutch I would say I word that fits this but I don´t want to damage or hurt your fragile soul so I don´t.

 

oh please trudy. a little bit of imagination can help you find a solution here.

147.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:00 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

yeah right, the number of times you left is a good proof that you are not as tough as you say you are.

 

 I left ONCE because of posted comments about me - this was nearly 3 years ago

I was deleted by a mod another time.

 

The rest, is just for fun - or an attempt to come online less! 

148.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:01 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 Going back to the original problem then - ifrom what I can gather it seems that neither Armegon nor thehandsom were offended by being called respectively ´paranoid´ and having a mental disorder´.  It was only when a mod deleted Armegon´s post that all this started - and look where its got us {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

 

 Good question: who was the insulted one? The addressee or the mod?

149.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:01 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

Sensitive souls will continue to post recipes and all will be well....and extremely dull

 

you mean it will be dull because you cannot comment on people´s personalities?

150.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:01 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

oh please trudy. a little bit of imagination can help you find a solution here.

 

 I take this as an insult, calling me without imagination. Delete your post please.

151.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:02 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Nope, not to me. If you think it´s an insult to be called that way, you are insulting millions of gay people around the world by thinking their way of life is bad, evil, sinful or whatever.

 

 That is the way i see it and almost all Eastern men see it too.

My opinion...so i guess im not the best one to jugde if calling gay is insult or not,the person himself would be better judge.

 

152.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:02 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

you mean it will be dull because you cannot comment on people´s personalities?

 

 No not at all.  As I said before, making personal insults during an argument is a sign of weakness in your argument.  I just think that threads are completely spoiled with over-moderation.

 

Did I upset you?

153.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:09 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 That is the way i see it and almost all Eastern men see it too.

My opinion...so i guess im not the best one to jugde if calling gay is insult or not,the person himself would be better judge.

 

 But you are the best one to judge when a third party thinks that being called "paranoid" is an insult?

154.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:10 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 No not at all.  As I said before, making personal insults during an argument is a sign of weakness in your argument.  I just think that threads are completely spoiled with over-moderation.

 

Did I upset you?

 

No, it did not upset me, I just don´t understand what the big freaking deal her is! Threads will not be over-moderated. I am just including a rule that if there are negative statements about another person´s character/personality and that will cause a problem, such posts may be deleted. If these posts don´t lead to a problem/complaints, then they won´t be deleted and only overt insults will be deleted. What is so strange and unreasonable about this?

 

I personally don´t think that thehandsom´s comment was insulting, but armegon said that he felt insulted (which prompted him to call thehandsom ´mentally ill´ -- this is a cross-cultural misunderstanding and I think we need to understand this, and all it takes for us to live together and focus on ideas is to NOT comment about personalities. Is this too much to ask?

155.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:10 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 But you are the best one to judge when a third party thinks that being called "paranoid" is an insult?

 

She was not the one who judged, armegon pm´d both her and me about it! If he didn´t do that, there would be no issue.

156.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:11 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

What is so strange and unreasonable about this?

 

 It is strange and unreasonable because the person being "insulted" DID NOT complain.  A third party complained.

157.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:12 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 this is a cross-cultural misunderstanding and I think we need to understand this, and all it takes for us to live together and focus on ideas is to NOT comment about personalities. Is this too much to ask?

 

 But, when the subject one that you feel passionately about, you do the same!!!

158.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:13 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 It is strange and unreasonable because the person being "insulted" DID NOT complain.  A third party complained.

 

Well, this is going to be our rule from now on when there are conflicts. A moderator deleted armegon´s post because he called thehandsom ´mentally ill´, which is an insult. Then armegon complained that he was also insulted and requested that thehandsom´s post is also deleted. So it´s not a third party complaint.

159.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:13 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 But, when the subject one that you feel passionately about, you do the same!!!

 

from now on, I won´t

160.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:16 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

from now on, I won´t

 

 I/We will remind you of that insul...... eh promise.

161.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:16 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 But you are the best one to judge when a third party thinks that being called "paranoid" is an insult?

 

 Ã havent joint the thread ,and i saw the handsom called armegon paranoid,and armagon replied by calling him mentaly disturbed,end of the story for me,no problem,they dealed with each other.

But later when i had the complaint,....!  

the complainer was armegon....who is the third party ?

162.       libralady
5152 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:18 pm

I take it a line is now drawn under this so that everyone can move on ? {#lang_emotions_unsure}

163.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:19 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 I/We will remind you of that insul...... eh promise.

 

same to you dear.

164.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:21 pm

 

Quoting libralady

I take it a line is now drawn under this so that everyone can move on ? {#lang_emotions_unsure}

 

 What makes you think that?

165.       libralady
5152 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:26 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 What makes you think that?

 

 Stupidity! {#lang_emotions_satisfied_nod}  Anyway, how long can anyone go on about something before it gets incredibly tiresome and people start reading recipes and lists of actresses instead? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

166.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:27 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Stupidity! {#lang_emotions_satisfied_nod}  Anyway, how long can anyone go on about something before it gets incredibly tiresome and people start reading recipes and lists of actresses instead? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

 

 People with a certain sense of humour can go on quite long, don´t you think?

167.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:28 pm

 

Quoting libralady

Anyway, how long can anyone go on about something before it gets incredibly tiresome and people start reading recipes and lists of actresses instead? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

 

 OMG Nooooooooooooooooooo!

 

168.       libralady
5152 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:33 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 OMG Nooooooooooooooooooo!

 

 Yes, people are reading recipes and learning inane poetry, reading essays, looking up lists of dead actresses, different breeds of dogs, reading silly translation requests, and discussing if Michael Jackson will go on tour ...................................except for a few who claim to be the only ones with a sense of humour  {#lang_emotions_noway}

169.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:35 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Stupidity! {#lang_emotions_satisfied_nod}  Anyway, how long can anyone go on about something before it gets incredibly tiresome and people start reading recipes and lists of actresses instead? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

 

 You only just arrived!  You missed all the good bits lol

170.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:36 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Yes, people are reading recipes and learning inane poetry, reading essays, looking up lists of dead actresses, different breeds of dogs, reading silly translation requests, and discussing if Michael Jackson will go on tour ...................................except for a few who claim to be the only ones with a sense of humour  {#lang_emotions_noway}

 

 Oh God!  If only I´d realised what I was missing...............

171.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:36 pm

Quoting libralady

 Yes, people are reading recipes and learning inane poetry, reading essays, looking up lists of dead actresses, different breeds of dogs, reading silly translation requests, and discussing if Michael Jackson will go on tour ...................................except for a few who claim to be the only ones with a sense of humour  {#lang_emotions_noway}

Who ARE these people ? And, even more scary, how do you know what they are all doing? PS Do you claim to have a sense of humour?

172.       libralady
5152 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:39 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

Who ARE these people ? And, even more scary, how do you know what they are all doing? PS Do you claim to have a sense of humour?

 

 Pm´s, it is all in the PM´s................. and of course we monitor all activity, didn´t you know?  Anyway, I have ironing to do, and that is marginly more exciting that posting diatribe on here {#lang_emotions_ninja}

173.       lady in red
6947 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:39 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Yes, people are reading recipes and learning inane poetry, reading essays, looking up lists of dead actresses, different breeds of dogs, reading silly translation requests, and discussing if Michael Jackson will go on tour ...................................except for a few who claim to be the only ones with a sense of humour  {#lang_emotions_noway}

Quoting TheAenigma

Who ARE these people ? And, even more scary, how do you know what they are all doing? PS Do you claim to have a sense of humour?

 

 I can´t see anything about Michael Jackson {#lang_emotions_cry} - oooh I do hope he comes to Turkey! {#lang_emotions_cool}

174.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 19 Nov 2008 Wed 11:47 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Pm´s, it is all in the PM´s................. and of course we monitor all activity, didn´t you know? 

 

 Well NOTHING surprises me - hence my lack of PMs

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