Ok, DK you just proved your ignorance of the issue. There are many reasons why these women ´spread their legs´ and many reasons why a man might want to purchase that, one of them is a very degrading towards women perception of human sexuality that´s based on domination and banging a woman who is in pain while he´s doing that.

Please, how can you compare selling your sexuality to selling your talent and creativity and self realization?

Kitty, actually DK is right here. Do accept that there are women who decided to become prostitutes although they had a choice. Somehow whenever you discuss prostitution you view it as a hell men organised for women who are forced into it. It is not alwasy the case. Plus, remember that the sex business workers are not only prostitutes, they´re also strippers and the like. And they are both sexes on both sides (the provider and the client).

I am a feminist and I believe in freedom of choice. If an adult person (be it a man or a woman) decides to have sex for money, he or she should have all the right to do that legally. Legalising it means safer working conditions, control and taxes.

And I don´t understand why you consider earning money with paid sex more reprehensible than butchering animals or sweeping streets. It takes all sorts of people with all sorts of talents to make up society. Some consider sex a private or emotional thing, some don´t. For me it is all based on free choice. I am totally against human trafficking, drugging women and forcing them to be prostitues, but I cannot judge a woman wo decides to provide sexual service to men or who stars in porn films of her own will (that goes for men too)

I agree with you Trudy.

You cannot convert these people into some other form or just disregard them so that you can satisfy the expectations of those who want to grasp the world the way they want it to be. In fact, there is not much space in the real world for miracles. When we talk about prostitution we are talking about a phenomenon as old as man.

If these women are allowed to form their own unions or whatever that may protect them financially and make them safer, this will be good for them, good for us and for everyone for that matter.

Anyone thinking that people living in the world must be forced to adapt themselves to an angelic point of view should read Zoroaster who defined the true nature of both God and humans. In this world, there is malice alongside good. Einstein said you can destroy an atom but you can´t destroy a prejudice all that easily. Likewise, we can apply these two all qualities of humanity. Good and bad must exist together and Islam says only God knows what is really good and what is bad.

Remember Maria Magdelana was a prostitute too.

DD, since when are you the judge as to who is right or wrong? Maybe you should have said that you think DK is right.., eh!?

The prostituted women, with few exceptions, have as much of a choice as chinese factory workers who have to work 12 hours a day for a few dollars and who are exposed to all kinds of harmful substances and later die prematurely of some disease because of that. Yeah, maybe in your view they have a choice.

 Yes. There are indeed many reasons. And I am definitely on your side when it comes to reasons of domination or poverty, amongst others. Ofcourse no male domination or economic hardship (in a male dominated society) should be forcing factors into unwanted prostitution. Let me just be clear about that: no forced prostitution and no male dominated society where the ideas of female sexuality are based upon the demands of men.

But, Again this is about your perception of sex and sexuality: sex involves male domination and a woman being penetrated in a painful way and can not enjoy it, and sexuality has to do with your gender.

The idea of a union is, amongst others, for men and women to have the right to refuse clients or to refuse to perform or take part in certain things. Your idea of sex kind of seems to involve the idea of an asexual woman without wishes or preferences. You´d be surprized there are women who enjoy being banged. 

Many forms of pornography and prostitution are very degrading for women. But that does not make pornography or prostitution in itself degrading.

So what I understood from your post is that point of view like mine is just moralizing and wishing for a perfect world. Well, actually not, this situation is very similar to slavery. You can find justifications for the existence of prostitution, just as slaves have existed for thousands of years as well, and if some people didn´t say that it´s simply wrong, it would still exist to this day.

It is very simple to eradicate things like prostitution, simply address the root of the problem -- punish the johns for their misogynistic attitudes toward women´s sexuality.

I am completely unaware of what you mean by ´asexual woman´, much more unaware of what I think about this (according to you), so maybe you should tell me more what I think.

I have said it earlier that this is not related to what some individual women may like or not, it is a larger issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with how individual women express and enjoy their sexuality.

I happen to think that pornography and prostitution is degrading and vulgar to women, all forms of them that I know. There´s no ´better or worse exploitation of women´ -- it´s all exploitation.

 I am talking about these few exceptions as an ideal. I wasnt talking about ´prostitution in general´ or ´prostitution in the Netherlands´ or something. I was merely talking about those exceptions, and why I don´t think it is degrading in itself.

Your idea of prostitution according to above comparison has to do with a boss, workers, minimum pay and maximum effort and no rights to protect them. The idea of prostitution that I have no problems with, is one of independent workers (callcentre, at home, behind the window, giving massages or coming as a stripper on a bachelor party, you name it, male or female), that work under protected circumstances with the right to refuse clients and acts, that work on their own times and that are insured.

 Then let´s agree to disagree. I don´t think you´ll be able to explain me what is so degrading about pornography and prostitution. And I don´t think I´ll be able to make you understand that indeed the large picture of women traficking and male domination in forced prostitution is wrong, but that THAT specific (and big) aspect of ´sex industry´ doesn´t necessarily make it more degrading to have sex and get money than to bake cookies and get money. I really don´t see the difference, because of my own perception of what sex is, and what it can be.

These few exceptions are also a product of patriarchy. They are a product of a sexist culture in which you become a star after you release a sex tape, where a woman has to market herself half naked, but not a man, if she wants to be considered a star or a sought after artist. A culture that glamorizes this kind of definition of womanhood and femininity. As a girl  growing up in this kind of culture, you see your sexuality through male-defined ideology of your own sexuality, and in that ideology you are an object. These exceptions are women who grew up in a culture that sets being able to excite a man as the highest standard for a woman. So... yeah... I am not so sure if I support that! (sarcasm: I don´t support).

My idea of prostitution according to that example is a work because of lack of choices. Work that damages you inside and out. And your examples of bachelor parties, strippers...etc.. is what constructs our misogynistic culture and shapes men´s sexist ideas and despicable views of women.

Selling sex and selling cookies? One basic idea when you sell sex is that the man has the right to do anything that he wants to you. That is what they are buying. When you legalize prostitution and forbid men to abuse prostituted women, they will stop coming there and instead they will look for a new black market of illegal prostitution in which he will be able to buy abusive sex.