And the wise ones believe in a supreme being, basing on a book that is full of contradictions and is no more scientific than Greek mythology. Fine. If you need your invisible friend just to live in fear, so be it. Enjoy your days of torment, awaiting his revenge. If you´re convinced that an omnipotent supreme being created men just to praise him and never go against him, without knowing, that they´d eventually turn away from him - it´s your choice.

But I think you´re being a bit overly aggressive. People have their right not to share your views. If, at the end of the day it turns out they will be condemned, it´s their thing. If they want to live their lives enjoying the moments they have here, why spoil their fun? Maybe you are wrong...there´s no way to know it until we die

You are seriously worrying me!!!!

Well, as I summarize it: I´m damned if I believe what lemon says, and I´m damned if I don´t believe what lemon says. Only difference, not believing it will leave some room upon for actually enjoying my life, and the world in all it´s beauty... difficult choice to make...

If you find any contradiction, take it, come with it, lets see it. If you dont have any example then dont say it.

The Bible never claimed to be scientific. Where does it say so?

You, DD, know nothing about my invisible friend, and yet you speak of Him. Strange

I prefer to live in fear than to live a life of ignorance, pretend we are animals going nowhere, pretend we have no souls, no thoughts.

God knew that humans would go against Him, God knew they would fall. Are you reading this?

I think you bit exaggerate that Im agressive. Can you give me an example of my agressive post? Or did you become so sensitive lately?

It is not only God will condemn you, He has already condemned you.

Spoil their fun? Are you joking? Do my posts spoil your fun? Dont you exaggerate now? What, they stopped sleeping and eating because of my posts? stopped having fun?

You see, when you are agressive towards my belief and show your utterly disrespect, its OK. right? And when I poke your anti-theism its suddenly not OK. Suddenly I am agressive.

You constantly judge me via religions when I am not there. You say Bible this and that as if you are smarter than Bible or you could write such book yourself. Everyone speaks of Bible´s contradictions, the net is full of them if you google.

I am telling you, DD, you dont know.

I´m not aggressive towards you, i don´t constantly repeat "You´re damned, you´ll go to hell because I know better than you what god wants" I´m saying that believing is a personal matter and if you choose to believe in a wrathful God whose hobby is killing people, it´s fine. But it doesn´t mean that people who choose not to believe or believe in God that actually likes people are wrong.

The Bible says that you are damned, I just repeat it. If this sounds to you harsh and agressive then its Bible and God is agressive. The Holy Bible is full of agression, killing and wrath, right from Genesis ending with the Revelation (if you ever read it). The essense of faith is built on fear of God. If we believers dont fear God, then theres no God but a kind daddy saying pleasant stuff to your ears.

I´m not judging you by religions, you said it´s not a religion but faith you have and I accept it. As for the Bible - it´s a book so naturally it doesn´t possess the ability to reason that humans do. It´s a text that has more meaning to some people than to others. Even your fiery debate here with other believers shows that reading the same text can have different interpretations. And here we are at the point where choice shows up again - you choose to focus on the fragments of wrath and anger, while Lis and BM read it differently.

You do judge me by the perspective of a religious person. I see it even when you deny it.

As for Bible its a book of different prophets. They recorded the messages from God and stories of certain people (mainly Israel), history of ancient peoples, empires, civilizations, God´s interactions, wickedness of people even of those known as patriarchs.Its a rich book.

I dont have a fiery debate here, Dont please exaggerate.There is no one here that I could have a furious debate on high

If you ever have read Bible, you would know why I concentrate on wrath and punishment rather than Love and Mercy. about 80-90% of Bible is about wrath and damnation. It goes on and on.

Why wouldn´t I be able to comment on a being whose existence I do not believe? I don´t believe in ghosts either, but I´d gladly talk about it. Or worldwide conspiracies, or wise males (ok, only joking here). If you post your believes on a public forum you need to be aware that people may want to comment on them, not always favourably. The fact that they don´t agree with you does not make them disrespectful. I may not respect your belief but I respect your right to have it and discuss it. Fair enough?

DD, I dont take your right away from you to talk of things you dont know. Have I ever asked you to stop or said that I feel offended by you or complained about you or said you are agressive to my belief? In my previous post I stated some because you accused me of agression, alleged agression. Was I really agressive towards you and others by stating that you are damned and condemned to Hell? Do you feel attacked and scared because of that statement? Not I am trying to defend myself, but trying to clear things out. I dont want or dont like being accused of anything that I havent done. Please, dont look for tiny things but concentrate on bigger.

Believe me, I am not even a tiny bit angry with you or feel offended by you. Not even a bit. I even dont expect from you respect or that poor tolerance of my belief. I honestly dont need your respect and acceptance, not because I dont care, but because you dont know what I know. I dont speak to please you or please myself. Please dont mis-take me. My faith is in God not in people´s wishes and feelings. I believe in God not to make myself happy, but make myself obeident to the Owner and Creator of all. To you it has no sense, so you wont understand it.

You say yourself you´d rather live in fear than accept being just an animal going to nowhere. Good. I choose the other option and I don´t have a problem with that.

Oh, yes, I´d rather live in fear of God. And I dare call you to do the same, even thou you have that other option. It would be easier for me to say: OK, you have your option, I have my option But I dont want to say that.

I also dont want to convince you out of my own wish and desire. It is not my thing to convince, but share.

Contradictions in the Bible? Here just to start with.

Actually the funniest part in any discussion with followers of any Holy Text is when they go "the Bible/Qran/Tora" says so. Ok, so it does, now, why would I want to believe something a book says? "Because our prophets said it´s the word of God" - how do you know they´re prophets? "Because the Bible/Qran/Tora" says so"

You see, by the human standard thinking you are absolutely right. And you should be truthful to yourself. If God didnt call you to believe you will not believe. this is this simple.

How do I know they are prophets? If they call to repent and reconcile with God, if they seek only Gods will, not theirs, if they serve God not themselves. And most important, by the fruits you will recognise them.

Dont put me on the level of God. Not lemon says but Bible says. Open your eyes and read it. Its full of wrath that is upon you. Bible says that you are damned if you dont repent.

Fine by me Enjoy your life. I have said my part. I gave you Good News. You rejected - you are damned, going to hell together with every TC member. Do you feel now better? Imagine all your friends and family are damned, so you will not be alone there. Enjoy!

Lemon, I´m really sorry but everything can be explained using the "you´re not God, so you won´t understand" argument. If it convinces you, it´s fine. I am not convinced by it. What would happen if science didn´t develop because people thought - it´s God´s creation, we won´t be able to comprehend it anyway?

Your argument does make sense. I didnt say you are not God therefore you dont understand God. Nobody can understand Him fully, it is impossible even for the whole eternity. That is why He is God.

Nobody forces you to understand Him. I dont. I am just trying to draw you a picture, a little tiny fragment, I dont know. Believe me, DD, I wont convince, and it is not my business to do so.

Why on earth it makes you think that I am forcing you to accept something that you cant comprehend in million years?

Besides, how do you know I´m not God? How can you be sure, my only purpose here is to test you? I won´t have to prove my being God to you as I´m not a party entertainer. How can you be sure there´s world around you? Maybe it´s an illusion created to test your faith? See - all we believe is a matter of choice. And this is how it is

There are lots of things you and I dont know. In order to state that theres no God you ve gotta learn all the knowledge of everything, of things visible and invisble.

My faith is not hocus phocus magic. Neither it is blind. Taking into consideration things happening around you that partly is cruel and evil I refuse to think its fun or party illusion. You are real, I am real, visible and invisible world are real.

Anyway, I´m not going to (or even trying) to convince you and you´re not going to convince me either, so let´s just agree to differ

True, we differ. But I know what you know, I´ve been there, I´ve tasted the same.

You dont know what I know. You havent tasted it.

Thats how we differ.