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American Girls are the Worst!
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10.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 04 Apr 2011 Mon 09:28 am

 

Quoting newquaker

 

 

And finally I fail to see how the low life Turks you met match with this example. I am not talking about some specific examples I encountered or got resented and bitching about it, I am talking about the whole population and general attitude towards foreigners. When you went to Turkey, if all guys treated you the same over a large area, the size of Netherlands, then you have every right to spell it out.

 

Is the area of Kusadasi, Bodrum, Marmaris, Antalya big enough for you? And also in the bus to Konya. I have had times where it felt like the whole of Turkey was out for either my money, a visa, or to cheat on their wives/girlfriends. But I also went out of my way to find decent people.

If you don´t feel comfortable in the town you are living in, perhaps it´s time for you to move instead of joining an internet forum just to vent this frustration. Just like I don´t go to certain Turkish sea-side resorts anymore, since the people there make me puke.

 

By the way... I have to note that there is a certain type of Turkish man that rubs me the wrong way too. I am not attracted to this type at all, and in general they tend to be highly educated so it´s not about visa´s or money. There seems to be a cultural difference between me and them. And when I make clear that I´m not interested in them, they start to blame me, or accuse me of being superficial, saying I´m not attracted to them because of their non-athletic looks. This silly childish blaming makes them even more unattractive! They are coming on too strong, too fast. This might be the Turkish way, the romantic lover, the hunter, but for a girl like me this is irritating. I don´t even want to be friends with such a person. Perhaps part of your problem is a difference in culture. Turkish men can be frightening to people from a more distant and cool culture.



Edited (4/4/2011) by barba_mama

11.       newquaker
28 posts
 04 Apr 2011 Mon 10:45 pm

@vineyards

 

I understand your points which kinda make sense, but to my surprise, even though Europeans exhibited a much more openly racist behavior against me due to historical steretypes or events, I was still much more comfortable with the Europeans, both men and women, compared to Americans. And when I give you examples, it´s not necessarily something that happened to me, but rather and amalgamation of the experiences of my foreigner friends including Turks and me. I just overheard this conversation between two of my classmates, for example:

 

Omer : American girls are difficult, don´t you think?

Mike : Hmm, not really, not with me at least.

Omer : I´ve been with more foreign women than Turkish and Americans were clearly the toughest to deal with and they made little sense.

Mike : I don´t agree but it´s probably because you´re foreign.

 

I am just literally conveying the conversation. I remember many other occasions like that, and not necessarily in romantic situations. In Europe, many people had prejudices and outright racist behaviors against Turks but they were willing to get to know you and once they did (if you have a decent character), your Turkishness was an advantage above all, since it was a source of curiosity. This was the case with me and many of my Turkish friends. In the US, however, my foreignness, not necessarily Turkishness, led them to being completely indifferent towards me.

 

After reading the comments here yesterday, I went straight to my American housemates and asked what they thought... We agreed that it has something to do with the upbringing (which most likely relates to xenophobia). This is a different sentiment though, it´s not due to historical reasons but more about modern uncertainties and phobias. Because unlike in Europe, where they hate me just because I am Turkish (in relevant situations), in America, people don´t hate me, but rather don´t wanna be involved with a foreigner since they feel uncomfortable with foreigners/strangers.

 

Generalization is always wrong to some degree, but it serves to simplify an important message. Of course not all women are the same, in any country, but it yet points to a situation, different than other countries, which is useful for comparison purposes. And if we´re not to like people for generalization, it´s again the Americans who generalize things the most. They see all moslem peoples and cultures the same for example. I say, wait a minute, there are over 1,5 billion moslems on eath, scattered around dozens of countries, and they can´t possibly the same, just like two predominantly Christian countries, Nigeria and the USA are in no way the same! So simple, right? But yet mamy Americans fail to understand that. Otherwise, my highly educated friend from Boston wouldn´t call me to see if I was safe (in Turkey) when US was occupying Iraq! A European woman would never do that!

 

I never defined a typical Turk but I know that I am not a typical Turk. You know this when you look around and see that you´ve been obviously different from most of the people around you all your life, which was also articulated by many people! One friend from New york literally said this about me, "Even though you´re very Turkish in many ways, yet You´re so different from all the Turks I have known". A typical Turk, if you will, wants his wife to assume his traditions and religion. He likes soccer a lot. He yanks about the deviant behaviors of American women yet He enages in sexual activities with foreign women but usually don´t wanna marry them since he thinks they are not chaste. He´s usually not very timely, and few minutes of late is not really later for him. He loves his culture but cannot explain exactly why. He thinks he has an enourmous history but he knows little about the world history. He likes his language but he is usually clueless about others. He likes and/or respects his religion but have no clue about others... He thinks Turks came from Central Asia but cannot explain why he doesn´t look Kazakhs or Kyrgyz!... and so on... I am absolutely not this person, not that anything wrong with it.

 

Actually I never had a problem understanding women, I just have a problem understanding American women. Well, I don´t know if I can call it an "understanding" problem, it´s more of a "solution" problem. The problem is there, obvious, it´s just that I don´t have a solution to that problem yet.



Edited (4/4/2011) by newquaker

12.       newquaker
28 posts
 04 Apr 2011 Mon 11:24 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

Is the area of Kusadasi, Bodrum, Marmaris, Antalya big enough for you? And also in the bus to Konya. I have had times where it felt like the whole of Turkey was out for either my money, a visa, or to cheat on their wives/girlfriends. But I also went out of my way to find decent people.

If you don´t feel comfortable in the town you are living in, perhaps it´s time for you to move instead of joining an internet forum just to vent this frustration. Just like I don´t go to certain Turkish sea-side resorts anymore, since the people there make me puke.

 

By the way... I have to note that there is a certain type of Turkish man that rubs me the wrong way too. I am not attracted to this type at all, and in general they tend to be highly educated so it´s not about visa´s or money. There seems to be a cultural difference between me and them. And when I make clear that I´m not interested in them, they start to blame me, or accuse me of being superficial, saying I´m not attracted to them because of their non-athletic looks. This silly childish blaming makes them even more unattractive! They are coming on too strong, too fast. This might be the Turkish way, the romantic lover, the hunter, but for a girl like me this is irritating. I don´t even want to be friends with such a person. Perhaps part of your problem is a difference in culture. Turkish men can be frightening to people from a more distant and cool culture.

 

 

@ barba_mama

 

You´re missing one point. The population that you were exposed to is highly biased to begin with. Those people certainly exist, and just like the stereotypes in Europe, there are many stereotypes in Turkey about Western Women. Your interaction was with  Mainly undeucated sex-thirsty and highly stereotyped males. If they had known the real you, or didn´t have the stereotypes in their minds, they would probably treat you differently. This type of behavior is not exclusive to Turks though but you will meet much more severe forms of it when you go to other moslem / Middle Eastern Countries. This has more to do with the sexually suppressed and subconsciously hypocritical mindset of those nations, which you are perfectly right at criticizing. However, you should keep in mind that this is not how most Turkish men normally behave in a normal social setup. Well, this is a long and separate topic to talk about. 

 

Unfortunately, moving to another environment is not an option for me. I have to live here due to economic and social reasons and this is WHY I am trying to find a solution (not vent frustration!). There are many people with similar feelings and just because I am articulating it written doesn´t make me a bad guy.

 

Again, not being a typical Turk, I´d never have a macho or condescending attitude and blame people about what or who to like. I am a shy person in nature. You shouldn´t try to fit me in a previous example/experience/analogy in your mind. Mine is a pure attempt to find a solution. The cultural argument is too general in this case, the case is not about "me", but about the interaction of foreigners and Americans in general (at least in New England Area). So this cultural difference argument would imply a complete alienation of American culture from all other cultures.  



Edited (4/4/2011) by newquaker
Edited (4/5/2011) by newquaker

13.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 04 Apr 2011 Mon 11:54 pm

{#emotions_dlg.shy} 

Quoting newquaker

 

Quoting barba_mama

Is the area of Kusadasi, Bodrum, Marmaris, Antalya big enough for you? And also in the bus to Konya. I have had times where it felt like the whole of Turkey was out for either my money, a visa, or to cheat on their wives/girlfriends. But I also went out of my way to find decent people.

If you don´t feel comfortable in the town you are living in, perhaps it´s time for you to move instead of joining an internet forum just to vent this frustration. Just like I don´t go to certain Turkish sea-side resorts anymore, since the people there make me puke.

 

By the way... I have to note that there is a certain type of Turkish man that rubs me the wrong way too. I am not attracted to this type at all, and in general they tend to be highly educated so it´s not about visa´s or money. There seems to be a cultural difference between me and them. And when I make clear that I´m not interested in them, they start to blame me, or accuse me of being superficial, saying I´m not attracted to them because of their non-athletic looks. This silly childish blaming makes them even more unattractive! They are coming on too strong, too fast. This might be the Turkish way, the romantic lover, the hunter, but for a girl like me this is irritating. I don´t even want to be friends with such a person. Perhaps part of your problem is a difference in culture. Turkish men can be frightening to people from a more distant and cool culture.

 

 

@ barba_mama

 

You´re missing one point. The population that you were exposed to is highly biased to begin with. Those people certainly exist, and just like the stereotypes abut in Europe, there are many stereotypes in Turkey about Western Women. Your interaction was with  Mainly undeucated sex-thirsty and highly stereotyped males. If they had known the real you, or didn´t have the stereotypes in their minds, they would probably treat you differently. This type of behavior is not exclusive to Turks though but you will meet much more severe forms of it when you go to other moslem / Middle Eastern Countries. This has more to do with the sexually suppressed and subconsciously hypocritical mindset of those nations, which you are perfectly right at criticizing. However, you should keep in mind that this is not how most Turkish men normally behave in a normal social setup. Well, this is a long and separate topic to talk about. 

 

Unfortunately, moving to another environment is not an option for me. I have to live here due to economic and social reasons and this is WHY I am trying to find a solution (not vent frustration!). There are many people with similar feelings and just because I am articulating it written doesn´t make me a bad guy.

 

Again, not being a typical Turk, I´d never have a macho or condescending attitude and blame people about what or who to like. I am a shy person in nature. You shouldn´t try to fit me in a previous example/experience/analogy in your mind. Mine is a pure attempt to find a solution. The cultural argument is too general in this case, the case is not about "me", but about the interaction of foreigners and Americans in general (at least in New England Area). So this cultural difference argument would imply a complete alienation of American culture from all other cultures.  

newquaker...if you don´t want to be fit into previous example/experience/analogy then why is the title of this forum thread "American Girls are the Worst"?  

 

What I was trying to point out is that even in a forum where I can´t distinguish your tone or your inflection, you sound a bit abbrasive.  Maybe it wasn´t your intention but that is exactly how you came across.  If you are looking for friends you´re not off to a good start.   {#emotions_dlg.shy} 



Edited (4/5/2011) by Elisabeth

newquaker liked this message
14.       newquaker
28 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 01:10 am

@Elisabeth

 

My point exactly! The title was shaping your mind regardless of my intentions! This is similar to the reaction I get from Americans all the time. With one difference is that my title here is "foreigner/Turkish", regardless of my personality. Without my accent, you´d hardly notice I wasn´t American if I didn´t want you to, and sometimes I wish I had come to America way earlier just to have decent accent like my "American" relatives.

 

And btw the title was there to attract attention and controversy and was actually the exact words of my friend "Omer", which I thought is a good summary of the thoughts of Turkish guys around me. He is actually much better with girls than me!

 

What astounded me was how on earth you concluded that "I have hostility towards strong women" (which is beyond my understanding since I only criticised the Americans) or that "I think everyone hates me just because I am Turkish"... If anything I think Americans don´t like or wanna be invlolved with foreigners altogether except they look and behave oddly familiar. I wouldn´t think Americans hate Turks at all, some might hate "moslems" for example, but it is never the kind of  "hate" that I came across in Europe, and even that is not something I´m complaining about.

 

clarividencia liked this message
15.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 03:59 am

 

Quoting newquaker

@Elisabeth

 

My point exactly! The title was shaping your mind regardless of my intentions! This is similar to the reaction I get from Americans all the time. With one difference is that my title here is "foreigner/Turkish", regardless of my personality. Without my accent, you´d hardly notice I wasn´t American if I didn´t want you to, and sometimes I wish I had come to America way earlier just to have decent accent like my "American" relatives.

 

And btw the title was there to attract attention and controversy and was actually the exact words of my friend "Omer", which I thought is a good summary of the thoughts of Turkish guys around me. He is actually much better with girls than me!

 

What astounded me was how on earth you concluded that "I have hostility towards strong women" (which is beyond my understanding since I only criticised the Americans) or that "I think everyone hates me just because I am Turkish"... If anything I think Americans don´t like or wanna be invlolved with foreigners altogether except they look and behave oddly familiar. I wouldn´t think Americans hate Turks at all, some might hate "moslems" for example, but it is never the kind of  "hate" that I came across in Europe, and even that is not something I´m complaining about.

 

 

Your title was deliberately provoking a fight?  I just can´t imagine why American women find you off-putting!  You seem so charming and delightful...Good luck making friends, newquaker!  (Might I suggest you find a recent European immigrant to settle down with?)  



Edited (4/5/2011) by Elisabeth

16.       newquaker
28 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 07:33 am

@Elisabeth

 

I wasn´t provoking a fight! Attracting controversy is not the same thing. But of course those who look for a fight will find it. I was merely expressing the thoughts of Turkish guys around me, in an "unedited" fashion. But it seems like you´re quite the touchy type, who is quick to take things personal and start attacking back with unfounded claims. Maybe I touched a nerve there?

 

Why do you insist understanding things the wrong way? Please read my posts carefully. Noone finds me off-putting! It´s not a personal issue. I am simply reporting my observations about the general population´s behavior towards the foreigners including Turks, and what bothers me most is the women´s attitude toward us. Most of those experiences don´t even belong to me! However, Your wannabe sarcastic comments about me being charming and delightfull is welcome And maybe instead of taking things the wrong way, you might try to help me next time instead of useless remarks! If you are not like that, just don´t take it personal!

 

I just watched the Uconn Huskies vs Indiana Butlers Game with my American fellows, and things are exactly the way I thought it would be. They try to cluster together with little regard to you, at odds with the foreigners, with whom I had no problems communicating with.



Edited (4/5/2011) by newquaker

17.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 12:16 pm

Pfff... let me be "typical Dutch" and straight forward  I think that the point that us women on the forum are trying to make...sometimes when a guy can´t get a girl, it´s not the girl´s fault. It might just be the guy Send some pictures, and we´ll be the judge. But right now, from what you write you are not coming across as the most attractive man ever. You seem a bit... complainy (I know it´s not a word).



Edited (4/5/2011) by barba_mama

18.       newquaker
28 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 03:54 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

Pfff... let me be "typical Dutch" and straight forward  I think that the point that us women on the forum are trying to make...sometimes when a guy can´t get a girl, it´s not the girl´s fault. It might just be the guy Send some pictures, and we´ll be the judge. But right now, from what you write you are not coming across as the most attractive man ever. You seem a bit... complainy (I know it´s not a word).

 

Well, I have a picture on my profile and go ahead but please keep your comments private, and I don´t want this thread turn into something else. Again, It´s not about "getting an American girl", since such occasions never happened to me. I never tried to date an American girl, and was never rejected by them since such an atmosphere was never even created around me between Americans and foreigners. So there is no such girl in person. If that were the case, I wouldn´t have to feel compelled to write but would merely take it as a personal issue. Being rejected is normal, but not even having chance to be rejected is the problem. In most cases, I am merely conveying my observations about my Turkish and other foreign friends.

 

Am I the complaining type? well, I am more like the "serious" type. I never complained in Europe and I never complained in America until now. In Contrast, there are many people I heard complaining about American girls all the time, they just don´t take it "seriously" and write in a forum website. Just keep in mind that, I am not complaining about women in general, but more about "the American attitude towards foreigners and the reflection of that on foreign guys by American women", to be exact.

 

 



Edited (4/5/2011) by newquaker

19.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 04:09 pm

 

Quoting newquaker

@Elisabeth

 

I wasn´t provoking a fight! Attracting controversy is not the same thing. But of course those who look for a fight will find it. I was merely expressing the thoughts of Turkish guys around me, in an "unedited" fashion. But it seems like you´re quite the touchy type, who is quick to take things personal and start attacking back with unfounded claims. Maybe I touched a nerve there?

 

Why do you insist understanding things the wrong way? Please read my posts carefully. Noone finds me off-putting! It´s not a personal issue. I am simply reporting my observations about the general population´s behavior towards the foreigners including Turks, and what bothers me most is the women´s attitude toward us. Most of those experiences don´t even belong to me! However, Your wannabe sarcastic comments about me being charming and delightfull is welcome And maybe instead of taking things the wrong way, you might try to help me next time instead of useless remarks! If you are not like that, just don´t take it personal!

 

I just watched the Uconn Huskies vs Indiana Butlers Game with my American fellows, and things are exactly the way I thought it would be. They try to cluster together with little regard to you, at odds with the foreigners, with whom I had no problems communicating with.

 

 OK...so you call a thread "American Girls are the worst" so that you can satisfy some egotistical need to argue a vague point you have about Americans V. Foreigners because you and group of equally charming foreigners are having a hard time fitting in?  But I am not supposed to be personally offended by this because I am supposed to understand that you really only wanted to provoke conversation?  You make comments about wanting to find an American girl to be with but when it is pointed out that you are offensive and maybe the problem is you and not Americans, you say that you are not interested in American girls but that are trying to cultivate some deeper understanding of the American buddy system...I´m not afraid to admit I am totally clueless as to what your really trying to find out.  I am going to "cluster" with my "fellow Americans"  because I am apparently I´m just not clever enough to understand....where is girleegirl when I need her???    {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}



Edited (4/5/2011) by Elisabeth

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20.       Burak7777777
96 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 06:54 pm

 

But I am not your typical Turk. I love my country, language, cuisine and religion and I will keep talking about them, but on the other hand, I have no problem marrying a non-Turkish, non-moslem person in the future. I

 

a typical turk isnt close minded, jaelous or wants to own their girlfriend. they also love their country. they dont have problem marrying a non-turkish or non-moeoeoeslem person. they dont typically seek a virgin either.

 

 

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