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American Girls are the Worst!
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20.       Burak7777777
96 posts
 05 Apr 2011 Tue 06:54 pm

 

But I am not your typical Turk. I love my country, language, cuisine and religion and I will keep talking about them, but on the other hand, I have no problem marrying a non-Turkish, non-moslem person in the future. I

 

a typical turk isnt close minded, jaelous or wants to own their girlfriend. they also love their country. they dont have problem marrying a non-turkish or non-moeoeoeslem person. they dont typically seek a virgin either.

 

 

21.       newquaker
28 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 02:02 am

 

Quoting Burak7777777

 

 

a typical turk isnt close minded, jaelous or wants to own their girlfriend. they also love their country. they dont have problem marrying a non-turkish or non-moeoeoeslem person. they dont typically seek a virgin either.

 

 

 

First of all, I never said Turks are closed-minded, which is a rather subjective issue! We must be coming from very different environments Burak! Because the very vast majority of the Turks around me here and my hometown in Turkey (Northwest) and all the Turks I have met in Europe were pretty much that way! There are always exceptions but again, those are exceptions! In short, typical Turkish men want to date Western women, but they don´t sincerely want to marry them unless they adopt their culture, with the major exception of getting a visa and similar cases. I have met a handful of Turks who sincerely married their non-moslem wives without further expectation but those are ultra exceptional cases.

 



Edited (4/6/2011) by newquaker

22.       newquaker
28 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 04:31 am

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 OK...so you call a thread "American Girls are the worst" so that you can satisfy some egotistical need to argue a vague point you have about Americans V. Foreigners because you and group of equally charming foreigners are having a hard time fitting in?  But I am not supposed to be personally offended by this because I am supposed to understand that you really only wanted to provoke conversation?  You make comments about wanting to find an American girl to be with but when it is pointed out that you are offensive and maybe the problem is you and not Americans, you say that you are not interested in American girls but that are trying to cultivate some deeper understanding of the American buddy system...I´m not afraid to admit I am totally clueless as to what your really trying to find out.  I am going to "cluster" with my "fellow Americans"  because I am apparently I´m just not clever enough to understand....where is girleegirl when I need her???    {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

I am not really satisfying anything, just trying to find answers and/or solutions. You´re free to understand it wrong though. I am just asking you one combined favor. Stop taking this personally, taking things the wrong way and insulting me. Although I have never addressed to you personally, every one of your messages included some kind of insult addressed directly to me.  Please be civil. As you Americans say, if you can´t agree, agree to disagree without personal insults.

 

I didn´t want to "provoke" anything! This is your fabrication and/or imagination. I wanted to attract attention and controversy.  I am a linguist, and those are completely different things like day and night.

 

I am not talking about "a group of charming foreigners".... I am talking about the vast majority of all foreigners. at least in the New England Area. This so called "group" includes hundreds of thousands of people, if not a million.

 

Again, the problem cannot be me because I have never talked about a specific situation about me.  I´ve always been talking in general, with regards to the whole foreign population (and especially those who I know around me). In a few examples when I said, "they don´t even wanna date me", for example, I was referring to situations where this kinda probability did not even come to existence, unlike situations in Europe, where I simply asked people out and got rejected several times, which is normal, and is not my point.

 

And by the way, who says I am not interested in American girls? This is totally and utterly wrong. I am very much interested in American Girls and this is why I am here (this forum) in the first place!

 

I just mentioned this "clustering" issue to my pal Omer today, and he couldn´t agree more! Added that he´d been suffering from this "indifference" for years, and described the situation "extremely rude & tactless". Two of our good American friends/classmates, he continued, wouldn´t even talk to us, if we did not continually try to converse with them. Finally, in order to describe the ignorance & indifference of American girls that he´s been exposed to, he jokingly told me that his family expected him to have an American girlfriend, but instead he ended up with a Romanian Girlfriend in America Ironically funny!

 



Edited (4/6/2011) by newquaker

23.       Burak7777777
96 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 05:08 am

 

Quoting newquaker

 

 

First of all, I never said Turks are closed-minded, which is a rather subjective issue! We must be coming from very different environments Burak! Because the very vast majority of the Turks around me here and my hometown in Turkey (Northwest) and all the Turks I have met in Europe were pretty much that way! There are always exceptions but again, those are exceptions! In short, typical Turkish men want to date Western women, but they don´t sincerely want to marry them unless they adopt their culture, with the major exception of getting a visa and similar cases. I have met a handful of Turks who sincerely married their non-moslem wives without further expectation but those are ultra exceptional cases.

 

 

 

i can see how were coming from very different enviroments and points of views. living in england im pretty sure you have a wide knoweldge of turkish people and get a chance to observe their behaviour accurately. while i on the other hand obviously not aware of the typical turkish person while living with the 17 million turks in the same city and have spent every summer of my life touring the country

 

the thing is my friend, no offense to you please, that you judge turks by the turks living in foreign countries. yes those ones are typically close minded. but turks, typically, are not. the close mindedness and an obsession for religion and tradition is not something special for turkish people. im sure you see that see the same type of patterns in england with english people, espescially hinterland towns and up north in scotland. the amount of such behaviour you described in your first post are not subject to being turkish-special only. theyre the typical features produced by the corruption of values in uneducated sects in a society. special cases, as you said, do not change this fact.

 

and im sure if you asked to any turkolog they would enlighten you about the fact that turks troughout history have always neighbored to many different countries and cultures. but instead of agressively trying to assimilate these negihbors, they acted opposite and have recieved subjects of assimilation themselves. and therefore inherently have no inclination of trying to impose religion into their foreign marriages. but as you said, exceptions exist.

newquaker liked this message
24.       si++
3785 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 10:26 am

Some insights from American girls about Turkish men (& greek ones also):

here

 

Here´s a quote:

Tips for the Date

One tip: Don´t go.

clarividencia liked this message
25.       newquaker
28 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 06:36 pm

 

Quoting si++

Some insights from American girls about Turkish men (& greek ones also):

here

 

Here´s a quote:

Tips for the Date

One tip: Don´t go.

 

 

Hahaha, that´s hillarious! Although it of course doesn´t apply to everyone, it is still a good example to portray stereotypical Turkish & Greek guys and far from completely true, but there is some truth to it.

 



Edited (4/6/2011) by newquaker

26.       vineyards
1954 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 07:21 pm

Do you think a typical American, Mexican, Brazilian, German or  a typical Dutch is a saint?

Do you think British men walk in the streets with sticks in hand and exquisite manners. Is a typical Spanish guy an ardent reader of classical literature? Do greengrocers really sing arias in Italy? Is a typical Romanian Count Dracula? What about those flying Dutchmen, I think they all work for the KLM.

If multiple examples justify settling on a norm, my typical French tourist would be the one who never washes and shamelessly farts in public. What about those British football fans; they can´t be aristocrats can they. When they abondoned the Taksim square, the whole place looked like an open air public loo. All the streets were washed with sticky beer drunk and conveniently discarded by the fans. It took quite a few fire trucks to clean the place.

There are still paternal families and they are not few but in a country like Turkey, generalizing this point is nothing but ridiculous. I meet many people everyday who surprize me with the things they have achieved in this country. In my opinion, if anything is becoming prevalent in this country its these people who achieve things without judging themselves according to somebody else´s principles. The sooner people realize this point, the easier the relations between them will become.

 

 

Daydreamer and Elisabeth liked this message
27.       Burak7777777
96 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 08:44 pm

we just love to publicise our biggest faults. the thread starter is a good example of this

28.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 06 Apr 2011 Wed 11:54 pm

I´ve never looked for an American girl to marry (sorry GG, you must have known I was just fooling around) so I cannot symphatise with you. I just couldn´t resist adding a few cents on the subject. You raise a few main points:

1. You´re not a typical Turk

2. American girls are not interested in you because you are Turkish

3. Non-Americans although biased against you at first, do not have reservations like the American girls do

 

Let me just tell you what I gather here:

1. Maybe that´s the problem? Most Turks I have met were fantastic people, open-minded, charming, interested in having a two-way conversation, caring, outgoing and a bit shy in a good sense (I´m not talking here about creepy hairy older guys stalking you whenever you go out on your own but the people I met). Sure, they may be a bit nationalistic and Ataturk obssessed but it´s not something they´d be throwing at you every single minute, they´d mention it in a discussion and then continue to be charming

2. We don´t have enough data to tell you why they´re not into you. Surely you haven´t tried getting friendly with all of them, have you? Maybe there is something about you that they find unpleasant? Or maybe you´re trying to mix with the wrong kind of girls? Ones that consider you not in their league? Again, we don´t have enough data to say anything here. Maybe you lack common ground with Americans? Maybe you´re creating a cultural gap around you? Again, it´s just my guess. Also, if you tell them straight away you want their passport, it´s the easiest way for them to run to the hills. Have you considered that it may be how you phrase your thoughts that makes them find you offensive or too direct or unattractive? Your written English is excellent but since a few people read your post as offensive, although you said it wasn´t your intention, then maybe you should work on the pragmatics of your utterances?

3. It´s always easier to mingle with foreigners because you come from the same place: abroad - and that´s one thing you have in comon from the start. Also, you are deprived of your history, of friends and families etc. Americans you meet are not uprooted like you, they have their life, friends and lifestyle. You´re an outsider and maybe you don´t fit in. I have been living in Ireland for four years and most friends I made are foreign. However, I don´t believe it´s because the Irish are the worst.

Your point about American girls to be worst as far as their interest in foreigners is concerned, cannot be valid as there are thousands of American women married to foreigners, including Turks. So, since it´s not Americans, it might be you...or it might be your choice of the people you´d like to pay their attention to you

29.       newquaker
28 posts
 07 Apr 2011 Thu 08:52 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I´ve never looked for an American girl to marry (sorry GG, you must have known I was just fooling around) so I cannot symphatise with you. I just couldn´t resist adding a few cents on the subject. You raise a few main points:

1. You´re not a typical Turk

2. American girls are not interested in you because you are Turkish

3. Non-Americans although biased against you at first, do not have reservations like the American girls do

 

Let me just tell you what I gather here:

1. Maybe that´s the problem? Most Turks I have met were fantastic people, open-minded, charming, interested in having a two-way conversation, caring, outgoing and a bit shy in a good sense (I´m not talking here about creepy hairy older guys stalking you whenever you go out on your own but the people I met). Sure, they may be a bit nationalistic and Ataturk obssessed but it´s not something they´d be throwing at you every single minute, they´d mention it in a discussion and then continue to be charming

2. We don´t have enough data to tell you why they´re not into you. Surely you haven´t tried getting friendly with all of them, have you? Maybe there is something about you that they find unpleasant? Or maybe you´re trying to mix with the wrong kind of girls? Ones that consider you not in their league? Again, we don´t have enough data to say anything here. Maybe you lack common ground with Americans? Maybe you´re creating a cultural gap around you? Again, it´s just my guess. Also, if you tell them straight away you want their passport, it´s the easiest way for them to run to the hills. Have you considered that it may be how you phrase your thoughts that makes them find you offensive or too direct or unattractive? Your written English is excellent but since a few people read your post as offensive, although you said it wasn´t your intention, then maybe you should work on the pragmatics of your utterances?

3. It´s always easier to mingle with foreigners because you come from the same place: abroad - and that´s one thing you have in comon from the start. Also, you are deprived of your history, of friends and families etc. Americans you meet are not uprooted like you, they have their life, friends and lifestyle. You´re an outsider and maybe you don´t fit in. I have been living in Ireland for four years and most friends I made are foreign. However, I don´t believe it´s because the Irish are the worst.

Your point about American girls to be worst as far as their interest in foreigners is concerned, cannot be valid as there are thousands of American women married to foreigners, including Turks. So, since it´s not Americans, it might be you...or it might be your choice of the people you´d like to pay their attention to you

 

 

Dear Daydreamer,

 

Thank you for this beautiful and civil evaluation and criticism. This is actually the kind of help I´ve been looking for. And whether or not I agree, I tend to learn something from each comment as long as they are civil like this.

 

Since I am a linguist, my language skills gotta be good but, as you pointed out, It is not always easy for me to predict how people may react to my words. Sometimes, for reasons obscure to me, they may end up understanding completely different things. I might be missing some "sense" ability here. Also I´d like to touch some points regarding your evaluations.

 

1. I said I am not a typical Turk, but it was neither my primary point here nor that it matters that much. I was simply trying to tell that I hardly suit to an average Turkish characteristics, not that it is better or worse, just different. An average Turkish guy might want his wife to adopt his religion and there is nothing wrong with it. I, on the other hand, would insist her to maintain her own culture overall. And so on so forth.

 

2. Again, I am still not sure why people keep taking this a personal issue. It´s not about me, but the whole general population and their relation with the foreigners (not necessarily Turks). Even the Title of this thread is quoted from a Turkish friend of mine, who is a seriously tall handsome and charming guy. I´d quote his authentic sentiments in Turkish but they are a bit too crass to express in this forum. There is virtually No interaction between foreigners and Americans here, and there is an invisible but highly perceptible WALL between them. So, with the existence of such wall, it´s not even possible to engage in a romantic environment since foreigners never get together with American women, who wouldn´t personally communicate with them. It´s an extremely COLD culture. They only talk with other Americans. And believe me, I have been to bars, cafes, pubs, libraries, private home parties etc, it just is not there. It has nothing to do with "looks", or "personality", or anything particularly to do with me, because no matter what country I´ve been in Europe, I never had this kind of isolation. I particularly had problems in Western Europe due to the prejudices and occasional hatred against Turks, but it was easily overcome by personal relations since Europeans, after all, were interested in communicating with foreigners as long as there was a common denominator. Americans, on the other hand, are simply indifferent and have no intention to communicate with you. I thought it was a "New England" story but it was also confirmed today by two friends of mine, one in Philadelphia, another in Texas.

 

3. "Non-Americans although biased against you at first, do not have reservations like the American girls do"..... that´s true but I didn´t have the same problem with Europeans in Europe! I understand your analogy about foreigners sticking together in a foreign land and I agree with it BUT It doesn´t explain why I didn´t have a problem socializing with Europeans (in Europe) and the invisible wall between foreigners and Americans here!

 

"Your point about American girls... cannot be valid as there are thousands of American women married to foreigners, including Turks"

Well, this is not a very correct reasoning since it´s not the absolute numbers that matter, but the "ratio" of such marriages. There may be thousands of Americans marrying foreigners, but I´d like to raise a few questions:

 

a) What percentage of Americans marry foreigners and how does it compare to other Western Countries, for example? There might be "thousands" of such marriages but there are "millions" of marriages in total! It´s obvious that it´s much lower than most European countries.

 

b) Who are those women marrying to? There are some "favored" nations such as the French, Italians and several English speaking countries which are treated differently.

 

c) What percentage of foreigners are married to Americans. Among all the foreigners around me, out of those I personally know (a few hundred), I have known only 2-3 such couples (except my own relatives), and those people have been living here for decades. 

 

I randomly searched and found this link, for example:

Why So Few American Women Many Foreigners?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070925210032AAWbcWw




Edited (4/7/2011) by newquaker
Edited (4/7/2011) by newquaker

30.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 07 Apr 2011 Thu 10:27 am

Is it just me or are Americans foreigners? How many native American people are still present in the U.S. today? The vast majority of people are Irish-American, African-American, British-American, yes even Dutch-American (all those people whose name starts with Vander). America per definition is a country with mixed cultures.

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