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A Feminist Islamic Reform in Turkey
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| 100. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:21 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: But am I right to think that there is no clear indication that this is an incident related to a marriage?..I am not trying to soften it but it might be a relative or a sister as well..
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marriage or not...
it made my blood boil, after such video im sad and angry.
it just is never the same.
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| 101. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:23 am |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
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of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry
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| 102. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:25 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: But am I right to think that there is no clear indication that this is an incident related to a marriage?..I am not trying to soften it but it might be a relative or a sister as well..
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The girl was talking Turkish with the east accent... but being wife or sister or a relative cant be a reason for being treated like that...
When you try to solve the problems with your own ways and not using the laws or at least talking... then whats the meaning of having the law system...
But on the other hand, this situation is not only in Turkey... i am sure there are worse examples in USA or in Europa, but again this doesnt make it right to be happen in Turkey...
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| 103. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:26 am |
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Quoting adonis: aspersions to Turkey are still goin' on. maybe the ladiez are bored and wanna make fun of someting and enjoy. don't worry, we are so careful for your ridiculous games in this site. you have to know how far you can go...
Turkey's internal issues are interested only for us namely the Turks, not for foreign people's in this site. If they wanna make comments about a subject relating Turkey's internal issue, you must make a wide investigation about that issue. otherwise, you'll be identified as a colonist, ignorant, unsincere and have a tendency to insult Turkey and Turkish people and culture. of course some comments are seemed innocent, because of some prejudices and uninformed approaches. however, most of comments about Turkey by the foreigners are in destructive manner.
Because of being a Turkish boy, i don't allow you to make these kinda comments. you are feminist whereas i'm a Kemalist. you are feminist whereas i'm anti-imperialist. you are feminist whereas i'm secular. you are feminist whereas i'm independent. this is the difference between us. you got it?
earthquake and the other events are natural events and they causes destruction and pain and interest to the entire world. So, the foreigners certainly talk these kind of issues in Turkey and if they wanna help Turkey, they are welcome. However, Turban problem or the other issues are the internal issues of Turkey, so the foreigners should not interfere these issues and if they wanna make approach, they have a great and wide knowledge about these issues with sources.
So, please don't make demagogies. Earthquake and Turban problem or Secularism in Turkey or whatever are different issues and it isn't related to this topic. be realist...
if u don't like Turkey and Turkish culture, why u r here? why are u writing insulting, unfair and speculative comments about Turkey? how did u take the right of writing this kind of sentences/comments?
if u really wanna learn Turkish, that's okay, u can certainly use this site as a source. otherwise leave this site as soon as possible please...
you were informing me the rules of this site. however, you have absolutely no rights to insult Turkey and Turkish culture. furthermore, you must not open and make political and religious subjects in the forum. don't you still know it?
these are my last words... take care... |
No one is bashing Turkey or it's rich culture. They ask to obtain answers. The answers come with varying degrees of beliefs.
Demographics and personal opinions also come from varying sources.
I think you criticize observers here in TC wrongly my friend.
The are talking about basic human rights...Especially for the women, where for so long they have lived in oppression.
The right for men , women and children to live freely and not in fear.
The right for women to choose what they will wear, where they will go and how far they wish to carry their educational desires.
Not the ' right ' for some man to beat a woman on the street while other men watch....
This is not a true measure of real men...Men are to be
protectors....
Let us hope this never happens to one of yours....
Walk in peace my brother......
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| 104. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:33 am |
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Bravo, Eddie!
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| 105. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:33 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
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of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
You dont even have a value after graduating from university you know.. ofcourse everybody should have the rights equally not depending on what they wear... There is no EDUCATION in universities, you educate yourself there, what is given in universities are free time for you to think about yourself and your life( if you can do or want to do ) and knowledge about the topic you choose in academic level...
What makes you a good or bad person or a human being is directly related to discovering who you are, and university just gives you time for this 4 years at least and meeting with lots of people from all around the world...
These are what i think ofcourse...
We will all face with all these unless we stop raising our childrens with TV not with the schools from early ages...
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| 106. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:34 am |
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Quoting ciko:
of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job!
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your sister chose her headscarf, not her future, not education?
voila!
nice tradition! nice mentality! and nice way to justify! a secular democratic country with loads of girls chosing scarves to education!
let me just think of an western girl, shes banned to wear a cross. she just takes it off and goes to university.
Quoting ciko:
because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )
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who cares what girls think in your country? if they want shariah or not? at the end its not them wanting to wear the hijabs but the islamists
Quoting ciko:
to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
ouha!
ciko
to think that the democratic laic system of turkia under the military junta!!! ho ho ho
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| 107. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:48 am |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: ...........But on the other hand, this situation is not only in Turkey... i am sure there are worse examples in USA or in Europa, but again this doesnt make it right to be happen in Turkey... |
You are correct Sui....it happens in the USA also. I've seen it in New York City myself. It's always terrifying when something like this happens. It's assumed to be "domestic violence", but sometimes it is a simple case of abduction.
However, too often it's more...3 examples of many:
Missing People
bodies found in Canada, but the women were from the US and Canada
Gary Hilton
Ted Bundy
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| 108. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:59 am |
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The Concept of Honor
So-called honor killings are based on the belief, deeply rooted in some cultures, of women as objects and commodities, not as human beings endowed with dignity and rights equal to those of men. Women are considered the property of male relatives and are seen to embody the honor of the men to whom they "belong." Women's bodies are considered the repositories of family honor. The concepts of male status and family status are of particular importance in cultures where "honor" killings occur and where women are viewed as responsible for upholding a family's "honor." If a woman or girl is accused or suspected of engaging in behavior that could taint male and/or family status, she may face brutal retaliation from her relatives that often results in violent death. Even though such accusations are not based on factual or tangible evidence, any allegation of dishonor against a woman often suffices for family members to take matters into their own hands.
Convicted killers often speak with defiant pride and without regret about their actions. "We do not consider this murder," said Wafik Abu Abseh, a 22-year-old Jordanian woodcutter who committed a so-called honor killing, as his mother, brother and sisters nodded in agreement. "It was like cutting off a finger." Abdel Rahim, a convicted killer who was released after two months, also said he had no regrets. "Honor is more precious than my own flesh and blood" (New York Times).
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| 109. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:20 am |
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post revised as below
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| 110. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:35 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
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of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
I know you will not understand or appreciate my reply, but I shall tell you the truth...Whether you like it or not is up to you...
1. If you live in a secular country, your main difference from another country is that society is not run by laws designed to follow the divine aspirations of any religion.
2. This does not mean that the religious rules are bad. But especially in a country where you have more than one religious group, Secular State must stand at equal distance from the different groups, trying not to favor one against the other.
3. It is foolish to expect the Secular State to set up Universities to match exact demands of all possible students, ie, those with turban, those without turban, communists, nudists, peanuts, wallnuts, nationalists, racists etc.
So what the Secular State does is to set up the Universities in accordance with the existing secular laws. The rules regarding the management of the university and the rules that students will have to follow are prepared in accordance with secular laws and availed to all future students.
4. The realm of "personal liberties" or "individual freedoms" starts after everybody reads these rules and understands them. It is then upto the individuals to consider the rules and their own priorities and decide whether they wish to conform to the rules and seek admittance to a university or not.
5.In a secular country, citizens are expected to follow secular rules. It is not allowed to use the citizen rights, to gain advantage for one's own religion or own convictions - the freedom granted by secular democracy can not be used to change the system into one of teocracy either.
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