Living - working in Turkey |
Thread locked by a moderator or admin. |
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Nationalists target British holiday homes in Turkey
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| 70. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 04:30 am |
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Vineyards, I think you ought to do your share of research as well. Racism and nationalism didn't start in the west, they are universal human traits. If you trace the evolutionary path, you will see that racism and nationalism are deeply engraved in our monkey past (you think the west also taught it to Chimps?). 'Prominent forces of the East did not give it a thought'????  What about the Romans, Ottomans, Ataturk... Oh, please 
Is YOUR mind formatted to think that the West is the source of all evil and the East is the model of morality?
I agree that the West is not flawless, and all Westerners will agree with you on that as well. Interestingly, all Easterners think that the East is perfect and only the West has problems (and if you don't agree with that, they'll settle it 'peacefully' )... 
How did you get to the conclusion that we don't care about the people in Iraq or Iran? That's quite a serious accusation, you know?
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| 71. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 09:36 am |
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Quoting vineyards: or if you state an opinion without knowing your subject, you are just ridding yourself of the burden of your own thoughts. Well, the problem is not your thoughts or the satisfaction you'd get when you are freed from them. |
Quoting vineyards: This is just how your minds are formatted by your educational systems and through the training you receive in your families. |
I think perhaps you should direct these paragraphs at YOURSELF Vineyards.
Quoting vineyards: The problem is that this world is currently drifting into a blood bath - a blood bath that will occur as a result of this nasty war of the civilizations. Korea, Kuba, Bolivia, Peru, Vietnam,tens of African countries Afghanistan, Iraq and now te target is Iran. Do millions of people who were killed in those countries mean anything to you? |
This comment is outrageous. It only highlights your ignorance. I wont even honour this question with an answer.
If this is the mentality of the majority of Turkish people who post their views here, then I really don't think I will continue to take part in any discussion with you. I notice one member has already left the site because of your racist, nationalistic insults, and another may change his plans to join his fiance in Turkey. Aferin sana - job done! 
I would suggest all EVIL WESTERNERS leave the nationalists to continue this "conversation" themselves.
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| 72. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 09:47 am |
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Quoting Deli_kizin:
I'll tell you what's wrong
I wasnt asked in any kind of survey about racism, nor have I ever. Usually these polls are asked among people in problem areas, to state where the problem is.
When thinking of Holland in regard to its foreign inhabitants/racism, there is a clear division between the West of Holland, where many foreigners live, and the other parts of the country.
The area where I live, does have foreigners too, but not in such big amounts as a city like Rotterdam. To hear racism or anger against muslims in my region, is much smaller, than the sounds of unsatisfaction in the West of Holland.
I think in general Dutch people are pretty tolerant (or at least politically correct enough not to speak out loud), and I am the very LAST person to be a racist or judge anyone, but I can imagine you start complaining if your foreign neighbour doesnt even speak enough Dutch to greet you when picking up your post, when you hear that an Imam in your neighbourhood has wished for illnesses upon non-believers or when your neighbours just throw the left-overs of their pilav over their balcony (YES this happens.)
It is a delicate subject and everyone blames everyone. There is quite a lot of trouble about the integration of foreigners in our country. The division in the country is very obvious from the politics. People with strict thoughts on immigration and integration such as Pim Fortuyn and Rita Verdonk, were welcomed warmly under most people in the West. But people in the east parts, where mostly unpleased with Verdonks words.
I can't say that there are no racists in Holland, because there are in every place of the world. And my thought of Dutch people has always been that they are of the complaining kind and that the grass is not the greenest on their side.. But I can say that large communities of foreigners, did nothing to improve their image. |
Thanks for the info. Indeed. That's what I would like to know about the Netherlands regarding the immigrants issue. When speaking for Holland, one should speak about the West Holland too for the sake of objectivity.
Here's another article which asks interesting questions:
1) "If the Dutch consider themselves 'tolerant' does that mean they are not racist?"
2) "Even if one accepts the notion that racism exists everywhere and that everyone, to some extent, is racist, it's still quite thorny to ask whether the Dutch are more or less racist than other Western countries.
But why then the rise in racist crimes, violence, hate propaganda and the popularity of the political party Leefbaar Nederlands?"
http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=64&story_id=85
Catwoman, I agree with you that those who criticize immigrants shouldn't be called "Racists". But that's irrelavant. The issue is the racism danger in Europe as well as Turkey. You said "Racism in the West is small and also punished". There's, however, no single West "conditons" concerning racism. Some western countries have better conditions some are worse. I remember that when the Solingen tragedy hapenned in Germany - 5 Turkish women and 2 little Turkish girl were burnt alive by nationalistic Germans- German officers said that racism is a very big and serious problem which must be solved in Germany.
There' re many serious articles about racism in Germany, which I believe don't sound ridiculous at all, here's one example:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/Germany.htm
Racism in Germany is so serious that there's a racist serial killer in Germany who killed 9 Turks a couple of years ago, just because their ethnic background were Turkish.
"“There has never been a series of murders like this in Germany,†Said a German officer.
There're many criminal issues related to racism in the world but these are unbelieveble extreme and shows the level of racism in Germany.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article706498.ece
It's obvious that there's a "racist risk" for Turks-as well as other foreigners- to go in Germany.
German officers don't deny the strong risk of racist attack anyway.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/30/wberlin30.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/30/ixworld.html
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| 73. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 10:21 am |
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Friends
AN EYE FOR AN EYE MAKES THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND - Mahatma Gandhi
I could list a pile of atrocities in Turkey (3 people in Malatya in May, one of them I knew his wife as a customer of the story) and many things we did wrong as Brits around the world, and probably are still doing, and sadly probably now and again will still do. But I wont, as that dont solve anything, bring any of us nearer to understanding each other etc.
There should be a difference between being proud of your own nation (a positive virtue) and racist to others (a negative and ugly trait).
Can't we just try to get on? And cut off this thread here? I had hoped this class was one of mates who were trying to understand each other and help each other graduate!
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| 74. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 11:49 am |
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Quoting aenigma x: While you are all shouting about reciprocal agreements and the unfairness of the visa system in our countries, perhaps I could (gently) remind you why our governments have those visa restrictions in place!
The fact is, when people travel to Turkey on their holiday, they return home.
When a large percentage of Turkish people travel to the UK on holiday, they DON'T return home!!!
Don't blame OUR governments for this - blame your own people!!!  |
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| 75. |
23 Jul 2007 Mon 02:28 pm |
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| 76. |
24 Jul 2007 Tue 12:27 am |
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Please cancel my membership taking effect immediately.
Please also be kind enough to delete all my posts from your site if it is technically possible.
Best regards
Akin
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| 77. |
24 Jul 2007 Tue 12:35 am |
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I apologize for my last comment, I was wrong.
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| 78. |
24 Jul 2007 Tue 12:42 am |
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Hi vineyards,
no need to quit your membership..There has been a total misunderstanding here. I also apologize in lieu of everyone here..
Please stay..We need you here...You have made a great contribution to this website with translations and cultural informations..
please stay...
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| 79. |
24 Jul 2007 Tue 12:50 am |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting vineyards: or if you state an opinion without knowing your subject, you are just ridding yourself of the burden of your own thoughts. Well, the problem is not your thoughts or the satisfaction you'd get when you are freed from them. |
Quoting vineyards: This is just how your minds are formatted by your educational systems and through the training you receive in your families. |
I think perhaps you should direct these paragraphs at YOURSELF Vineyards.
Quoting vineyards: The problem is that this world is currently drifting into a blood bath - a blood bath that will occur as a result of this nasty war of the civilizations. Korea, Kuba, Bolivia, Peru, Vietnam,tens of African countries Afghanistan, Iraq and now te target is Iran. Do millions of people who were killed in those countries mean anything to you? |
This comment is outrageous. It only highlights your ignorance. I wont even honour this question with an answer.
If this is the mentality of the majority of Turkish people who post their views here, then I really don't think I will continue to take part in any discussion with you. I notice one member has already left the site because of your racist, nationalistic insults, and another may change his plans to join his fiance in Turkey. Aferin sana - job done!
I would suggest all EVIL WESTERNERS leave the nationalists to continue this "conversation" themselves. |
Did he use the word "evil westerner"? I think you behave very emotionally here. We have also the right to critique the west because yes the west did and has been doing such bad things to the world. The east is not perfect either but why do we have to praise the west, and apologize for their big faults? You were saying this for the man-woman issues, the opressor and the opressed thing. It's the same we will ofcourse be more concerned about the west because they control the world.
We talk here mostly about politics, so I don't understand why you are so offended each time. These are realities, which do not appear probably on western medias.
And for the one who left the site ,if I'm not mistaken was because of her boyfriend.
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| 80. |
24 Jul 2007 Tue 12:53 am |
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We don't, of course, have anything to say upon an apology. However, this has happened so often recently. Sometimes an apology, even a sincere one, can't suffice to repair some detrimental harms on people's hearts.
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